The Dirty Independence Question

[viberunner]

12 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Firstly, the SNP have a Northern Ireland spokesperson. WTF?   ... why does a separatist nationalist party have an official view and intervene on the governance of a part of the state it wants to separate from...?

Technically it is "Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Northern Ireland)" and the reason the SNP have a shadow NI spokesperson is the government has a Secretary for State for NI and it is essential all government ministers are held to account by opposition parties and the current mechanism for that is for a senior frontbencher to "shadow" a government minister.

 

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, viberunner said:

Technically it is "Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Northern Ireland)" and the reason the SNP have a shadow NI spokesperson is the government has a Secretary for State for NI and it is essential all government ministers are held to account by opposition parties and the current mechanism for that is for a senior frontbencher to "shadow" a government minister.

you mean that the SNP don't think that NI politicians can do that for themselves...?  

Which is why I laughed.

[LJS]

24 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

you mean that the SNP don't think that NI politicians can do that for themselves...?  

Which is why I laughed.

How dare we have opinions on anything but hatred for the English!

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, LJS said:

How dare we have opinions on anything but hatred for the English!

how dare you claim localism is fantastic and then interfere and know better than the locals in Ireland.  

But hey, you didn't get it. Fancy that, a snipper not understanding.

[viberunner]

41 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

you mean that the SNP don't think that NI politicians can do that for themselves...?  

Which is why I laughed.

You have been informed of standard parliamentary procedure, you have ignored that and moved to "you MEAN the SNP don't THINK". No, I do not mean that at all. I mean exactly what I said which bears absolutely no relation whatsoever to your Straw Man Fallacy.

And no, you did not laugh. You sneered. There is a difference.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, viberunner said:

You have been informed of standard parliamentary procedure

standard Parliamentary procedure would have the SNP respecting the right of the UK Parliament to hold a UK referendum with one-person-one-vote.

Looks like you're picking and choosing which "standard parliamentary procedure"'s you want to respect. Am I right?

Just like the SNP are picking and choosing who should have a say over particular regions.

 

Quote

You sneered. There is a difference.

Because you don't sneer at nationalists...?  

The difference is I sneer at all nationalists because all nationalists are the same.

Edited October 1, 2020 by eFestivals

[LJS]

30 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

standard Parliamentary procedure would have the SNP respecting the right of the UK Parliament to hold a UK referendum with one-person-one-vote.

Looks like you're picking and choosing which "standard parliamentary procedure"'s you want to respect. Am I right?

Just like the SNP are picking and choosing who should have a say over particular regions.

 

Because you don't sneer at nationalists...?  

The difference is I sneer at all nationalists because all nationalists are the same.

Aye, so they are Neil.

 

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, LJS said:

Aye, so they are Neil.

yes, they are. It's all about "me".

How do you fancy a whole load of new immigrants to Scotland, but the union flag waving kind? Say a million of them.

I'm betting you'd suddenly have less liking for immigration. Am I right?

Jeez.  

Edited October 1, 2020 by eFestivals

[LJS]

17 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yes, they are. It's all about "me".

How do you fancy a whole load of new immigrants to Scotland, but the union flag waving kind? Say a million of them.

I'm betting you'd suddenly have less liking for immigration. Am I right?

Jeez.  

We have loads already and they are most welcome. Some communities in the Highlands would not be viable without them.

If you'd care to join them, you will be more than welcome. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, LJS said:

We have loads already and they are most welcome. Some communities in the Highlands would not be viable without them.

so you'd be happy for immigrants to push 'native' Scots out (there's a million to house) as well as alter the political landscape so indy never happens....?

Soz, don't believe you. 

And even if I'm wrong about you, we both know that wouldn't be wrong for most snippers.

[eFestivals]

40 minutes ago, LJS said:

Aye, so they are Neil.

 

so anyway, when is Sturgeon going to be telling Spaffer that she'll take all asylum seekers so they can all be welcomed to Scotland and not have to suffer any rules of Spaffer?

That would be far better than 'opposition'. Perhaps there's more than one 'opposition' at work in her head..?

[LJS]

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

so anyway, when is Sturgeon going to be telling Spaffer that she'll take all asylum seekers so they can all be welcomed to Scotland and not have to suffer any rules of Spaffer?

That would be far better than 'opposition'. Perhaps there's more than one 'opposition' at work in her head..?

Well, we took more than our "share" of Syrian refugees so I'm sure we will be happy to play our part. I think we would expect other parts of the Broad Shouldered Union to pitch in as well.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

we took more than our "share" of Syrian refugees

also: took more than your share of the budget for refugees.

It's not altruism, it's more than your share of vacant properties to house them in. 

1 hour ago, LJS said:

I'm sure we will be happy to play our part

I'm not saying you won't, I'm pointing out that Scotland has the opportunity to get all of those immigrants snippers says it wants.

And it turns out the SNP doesn't actually want them.

Who knew?  

Edited October 1, 2020 by eFestivals

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

also: took more than your share of the budget for refugees.

It's not altruism, it's more than your share of vacant properties to house them in. 

I'm not saying you won't, I'm pointing out that Scotland has the opportunity to get all of those immigrants snippers says it wants.

How exactly? Are we going to smuggle them in while Priti Patel isn't looking?

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

And it turns out the SNP doesn't actually want them.

Who knew?  

Only you.

 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

How exactly? Are we going to smuggle them in while Priti Patel isn't looking?

Scotland could be taking many more refugees than it is. All it's got to do is ask for more of them; there's even money in it.

So you need to ask yourself: why isn't it?

[viberunner]

10 hours ago, eFestivals said:

standard Parliamentary procedure would have the SNP respecting the right of the UK Parliament to hold a UK referendum with one-person-one-vote.

Because you don't sneer at nationalists...?  

The difference is I sneer at all nationalists because all nationalists are the same.

 

Hang on, are you sneering at the SNP for being anti-Brexit?

I sneer at people based on the content of their character, not arbitrary political choices. There are many morally-vile non-nationalist people (e.g. Livingstone, Corbyn) and there are many honourable nationalists as the SNP prove.

[eFestivals]

2 hours ago, viberunner said:

 

Hang on, are you sneering at the SNP for being anti-Brexit?

I'm pointing out that snippers sneer too. 

I'm saying there's things worthy of being sneered at. Nationalists.

 

 

2 hours ago, viberunner said:

I sneer at people based on the content of their character, not arbitrary political choices.

Me too.

Choosing to to sell or buy unicorns is a character trait.

 

2 hours ago, viberunner said:

There are many morally-vile non-nationalist people (e.g. Livingstone, Corbyn) and there are many honourable nationalists as the SNP prove.

There's fuck all honourable in drawing arbitrary lines and believing those inside are deserving of special treatment.

[viberunner]

You hate arbitrary borders yet you demand Scotland bend the knee to the "UK".

You hate nationalism yet defend Brexit.

You hate nationalism yet hate the SNP wanting Scotland to join the EU.

 

I think it's more like you hate living in a shit country and would rather us stay joined to your shit country rather than us go out on our own, join the EU, and stop being shit.

[kaosmark2]

5 hours ago, viberunner said:

I think it's more like you hate living in a shit country and would rather us stay joined to your shit country rather than us go out on our own, join the EU, and stop being shit.

You say this as if there's any chance that an independent Scotland would meet the criteria to join the EU let alone be accepted by member states fighting nationalist independence movements of their own. 

[viberunner]

The EU has shown a deeply flexible and helpful attitude when it comes to getting countries through the Copenhagen Criteria, so yes if the EU can help Bulgaria, Estonia, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia through the process then yes I'm sure it can be made that Scotland can squeeze through too.

The Spanish issue is very different this time round. Spain did not want to see an EU country split and the the split-off bit join the EU. But Britain has left the EU, the separation would happen, and THEN application for the EU. Spain has shown no issue with that in the past: they had the chance to veto Croatia (a country borne from the fragmentation of Yugoslavia) and they did not.

EDIT: and it's not like Scotland has a Plan B. The disaster of England forcing Brexit on Scotland will continue, year on year, generation on generation, with no positives. Getting back into the EU will be the only way to avoid the disaster that looms for England.

Edited October 2, 2020 by viberunner

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, viberunner said:

You hate arbitrary borders yet you demand Scotland bend the knee to the "UK".

PMSL  

I demand fuck all. That's the SNP doing their Paisley impression.

I think that a divided Ireland is stupid.
I think a divided Cypress is stupid.
I think small divided islands are stupid.
Guess what? I think a divided Great Britain would be stupid.
 

Quote

You hate nationalism yet defend Brexit.

PMSL  
(are you really that dim? Seems like you really are).

I think erecting new and extra borders is stupid.

I think supporting voting yourself out of the EU is stupid, whether that's by a brexiter or the likes of you doing the same as a brexiter (as you did in 2014).

 

Quote

You hate nationalism yet hate the SNP wanting Scotland to join the EU.

PMSL  

If the EU wants Scotland and Scotland wants the EU - both of which are uncertain - I have no problem with it as an idea in principle, idiot.  

But get back to me when the people of Scotland are dead keen to be in the EU while having a physical border with England.

 

Quote

I think it's more like you hate living in a shit country and would rather us stay joined to your shit country rather than us go out on our own, join the EU, and stop being shit.

Your plan would make Scotland more shit, not less shit.  

You think erecting borders is silly unless it's driven by xenophobia, and then it's OK. You and the brexiters.

Edited October 2, 2020 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, viberunner said:

the Copenhagen Criteria

So, that's

- Scotland giving up the pound for the euro. Good luck selling that.
- Scotland voting itself a customs border with rUK. Good luck selling that.
- Scotland voting itself a peoples border with rUK. Good luck selling that.
- Scotland cutting public spending by more than the Tories have. Good luck selling that.
 

Edited October 2, 2020 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

4 hours ago, viberunner said:

The disaster of England forcing Brexit on Scotland will continue, year on year, generation on generation, with no positives.

while that's likely to be true, iScotland joining the EU will be an extra fuck-up on top of brexit, adding to the damage with no positives.

But hey, just keep on pretending that's not true. The EU will buy 5 times more stuff from Scotland just because it thinks those Scots are just lovely, the most lovely people in Europe.

[zahidf]

Lol what?

 

[kaosmark2]

So i downloaded the NHS covid app today, after looking into and feeling comfortable on the privacy side. 

Instantly noticed that it asked for an England/Wales postcode. What is someone who lives and works on different sites of the England /Scotland "border" meant to do? 

Have the SNP commissioned a separate app?