The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

That's it then. Unlucky fellas. The no campaign has nothing to brag about. I'm dreading Cameron's smug speech.

actually, it sounded mostly fair and reasonable, with a promise of delivery for the Scots.

What was more important was what it didn't say.

I loved the way he turned smug Alex's words back on him tho. Ha!

[eFestivals]

You are I take it concerned about some sort of backlash if there is a No vote. I don't see it myself.

Particularly, I was thinking yesterday that there might be some VERY pissed off people today. Even late last night there were plenty of yes-ers absolutely convinced that yes would win by 60% or more, and with stuff like the 'celebratory' gathering in Glasgow last night I had fears of things kicking off from those who refused to accept the result as fair.

However, they seem to have faded away faster than I thought they might. Which is a good thing, of course.

[zero000]

That picture of Alex Salmond in his car looking like a melted jellyfish sums it all up for me.

Good reaction by the yes campaigners though, glad to see no violence.

[eFestivals]

Despite what some of you seem to believe there has been absolutely no anti-English sentiment in this campaign

What have you been reading for the last 6+ months?

There's been a huge amount of it, even if it's comes from just a small proportion of people.

There's also been plenty of Scots-on-Scots sentiment too, with all the stuff like "traitors", "quislings", and "no true Scot will vote no".

I'm glad it's over.

It looks like the three horsemen of the apocalypse are going to follow thru on their promises, so hopefully Scotland can come together behind that, and Scots will also think beyond their own boundaries to help ensure the 'new settlement' is something that actually works for all parts of the UK.

[eFestivals]

When the dust settles will be interesting to get an idea of how the youngsters voted. The Auld Yins will vote NO in big numbers. This has always been my fear.

It's worth remembering that those who are young now become older, and take on the views of those olders with changed personal circumstances. It's not necessarily the case that time will delivery indy.

With 31 of the 32 areas votes in, only 3 of those areas have voted yes. I think that more than anything else shows that indy is not the widespread dream some imagined.

It seems that most of the confidence in yes has come from a Glasgow bubble.

[eFestivals]

I'm split russy ...I'm hearing from friends lots of real world examples of people moving to yes. But the guys on the telly dem to be assuming no. God knows. The opinion polls have been bizarre. They were all over the place for ages then suddenly in the last week they all fell into am uncanny line. I have no real theory as to why this happened.

I am still hopeful...ish.

The polls have been proven spookily accurate.

It's not too surprising. Because it was many of the same people being polled again and again (by YouGov, if not others), they were able to track quite well how people's voting intentions moved around over time. As long as they'd got their demographic samples and modelling right (which the 2011 election will have helped them correct) then they were always likely to be in the right ball park.

The only yes win in those polls came immediately after the 2nd debate - which seems to have been a very brief rush to the head that soon subsided.

For the poll they announced last night, they picked up a trend of people who'd been saying they'd be voting yes having actually voted no (the 'polling' was taken after those people had voted) - hence their confidence in a 'no'.

[Stash]

The Highland region results finally in with another No. So overall only 4 council regions returned an overall Yes vote.

2,001,926 (55%) vs 1,617,989 (45%) with an 85% turnout. Who got the vote closest?

Edited September 19, 2014 by Stash

[russycarps]

I'm glad it's over.

I'm not. I've enjoyed this thread over the months and will miss it. Now it's back to the glastonbury forum, which is cack this time of year

[eFestivals]

I don't think Cameron can deliver more powers to Scotland without more power for England...

He's already stated that the new settlement will be UK wide - with an English Parliament of some kind. Go find his 7am speech.

I don't have too much of a problem with the 'English Parliament' using the same Westminster MPs, but I have a massive problem with it if the 'English parliament' is the only internal parliament which is not elected via PR.

constitutional reform without voting reform would be pointless. Proportional representation must be part of the package. #NewUK

[LJS]

It's worth remembering that those who are young now become older, and take on the views of those olders with changed personal circumstances. It's not necessarily the case that time will delivery indy.

With 31 of the 32 areas votes in, only 3 of those areas have voted yes. I think that more than anything else shows that indy is not the widespread dream some imagined.

It seems that most of the confidence in yes has come from a Glasgow bubble.

45% is a lot more widespread than most folk thought & on a high turnout is a higher percentage of the total electorate than any government has achieved for years.

However, I'm not really up for debate today. I am surprised how gutted I am by this & am certainly not able to put any perspective on it all at the moment.

My main concern today is my kids particularly my son who has lived this campaign for the past year. I can't begin to imagine how he feels. And my 17 year old daughter. Stuff matters so much more at that age.

[russycarps]

He's already stated that the new settlement will be UK wide - with an English Parliament of some kind. Go find his 7am speech.

I don't have too much of a problem with the 'English Parliament' using the same Westminster MPs, but I have a massive problem with it if the 'English parliament' is the only internal parliament which is not elected via PR.

His speech was quite good and well delivered, annoyingly.

Dunno why the BBC insists on giving farage airtime, but cameron has taken the wind out of his sails by addressing the english question already.

No more referendums for a generation. That much be painful to read for the Yes-ers.

[eFestivals]

45% is a lot more widespread than most folk thought & on a high turnout is a higher percentage of the total electorate than any government has achieved for years.

Yep, 'yes' got higher support than many imagined it might.

Then again, it got just 1% more support after a 3 year campaign than the SNP managed to get in 2011.

The failure is as great on both sides to my mind.

I hope that the energy of the yes campaign can be kept up and channelled towards something real now, so that Scotland does get a sustainable settlement.

The very first part of getting that sustainable settlement is not with new powers for Scotland, but with a fair governmental system behind those new powers - which means PR for Westminster.

Unless Scotland starts shouting for this, you'll still end up with the tories!!!

[eFestivals]

No more referendums for a generation. That much be painful to read for the Yes-ers.

"or, as Alex Salmond himself has said, perhaps for a lifetime".

That part made me laugh out loud. Salmond is not half as smart as he's credited as being, cos those words of his have ensured that he'll die a failure with regard to his lifetimes work.

[wee_insomniac]

4 councils YES

28 councils NO

45% YES

55% NO

YES 2,001,926

NO 1,617,989

In election terms its a very clear NO!

Very happy Scotland saw a rotten fish for what it was...

Is that Yes/No figure the wrong way around?

[Alcatraz]

A dark day for Peter Dow. Maybe now he can focus on his internet dating

I won't be getting dewy eyed over the Union.

I have to say the SNP politicians on the BBC show have been impressively humble. Maybe deep down they're very relieved

Ironically, the media coverage of this does seem to have operated somewhat in a 'Glasgow bubble'

Edited September 19, 2014 by Alcatraz

[russycarps]

A dark day for Peter Dow. Maybe now he can focus on his internet dating

I won't be getting dewy eyed over the Union.

I have to say the SNP politicians on the BBC show have been impressively humble. Maybe deep down they're very relieved

haha now there's a blast from the past. Has anyone heard from him recently? I'd have loved to have heard from him in the run up to the referendum

[eFestivals]

A dark day for Peter Dow. Maybe now he can focus on his internet dating

:lol:

[eFestivals]

haha now there's a blast from the past. Has anyone heard from him recently? I'd have loved to have heard from him in the run up to the referendum

i've just googled him. His twitter hasn't had a post since the end of July.

I also found this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Peter_Dow

:lol:

[russycarps]

i've just googled him. His twitter hasn't had a post since the end of July.

I also found this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Peter_Dow

:lol:

that is utterly magnificent!

"Categories:

• Batshit crazy
• British politics
• Extreme moonbattery
• Insufferable assholes
• Internet kooks
• Pissed at us"

[eFestivals]

that is utterly magnificent!

it is, and those list of categories at the end was the final masterpiece to the whole page.

[zahidf]

Some interesting voting patterns...

71-29 for YES for 16-17 year olds, 73-27 for NO for 65+ and 63-37 for NO for Labour voters. 1 in 7 SNP voters voted for NO (???)

[t8yman]

Those 16-17 year old votes are very telling. A lot of 16-17 year olds haven't a clue about politics, nor understand the finer points of a lot of political issues. Not saying "all of them" by any stretch of the imagination, but a hell of a lot of them.

[t8yman]

Where have they come from ?

The vote was anonymous and there was no exit polls ?

anonymous doesnt necessarily mean they don't collect basic information surely?

[mrtourette]

Not surprising on the 17-18 year-olds, whenever I've faced anti-English sentiment/abuse in Scotland, Ireland or Wales it's been from teenagers with little prospects looking for someone to blame. Probably an easier demographic to manipualte as well, the dickheads can't even use earphones or pull their trousers up properly.

Edited September 19, 2014 by mrtourette

[Alcatraz]

Where have they come from ?

The vote was anonymous and there was no exit polls ?

Possibly from YouGov's pretty accurate poll taken yesterday