The Dirty Independence Question

[Comfy Bean]

Now turning SKY off. 30 mins after the BP breaking news Lord Leitch from BUPA has came out to confirm BUPA are backing NO. They have just had Sir John Major on and Lord Prescott getting a very easy ride from Kay.

Interestingly not one of them, even Dave, is attacking Salmond or the SNP`s record in Government. It`s all just begging us to stay and veiled threats from Sir Big Business protecting their own interest.

During his speech to the invited Dave said " effing Tories ". He is so cool and down with the yooth. I sense a change in the momentum !

[mrtourette]

Whay do you refer to David Cameron as 'Dave' yet Alex Salmond as 'Salmond'? I'm sure it's not important, just caught my eye.

I've struggled to come across anyone English who really gives a toss, and the Scottish people I know are divided. The general feeling tends to be that we (the rest of the UK) may be slightly worse off but not as as bad as the Scottish, and at the end of the day fair play from grabbing the opportunity. Sort of 'look at them, off they go with their independeance, bless 'em'. First day at school, doesn't want to look back at or have a cuddle in case the bigger kids see but knows Mummy will always be there, and Mummy knows it's best to keep up that pretense as both parties gain from it. I don't think the public generally begrudge the Scottish independence (or fake independence), it's all a bit of a non-event really. Mildly interesting at best.

[LJS]

Whay do you refer to David Cameron as 'Dave' yet Alex Salmond as 'Salmond'? I'm sure it's not important, just caught my eye.

I've struggled to come across anyone English who really gives a toss, and the Scottish people I know are divided. The general feeling tends to be that we (the rest of the UK) may be slightly worse off but not as as bad as the Scottish, and at the end of the day fair play from grabbing the opportunity. Sort of 'look at them, off they go with their independeance, bless 'em'. First day at school, doesn't want to look back at or have a cuddle in case the bigger kids see but knows Mummy will always be there, and Mummy knows it's best to keep up that pretense as both parties gain from it. I don't think the public generally begrudge the Scottish independence (or fake independence), it's all a bit of a non-event really. Mildly interesting at best.

Summed up as most people in England don't give a shit about Scotland, which in truth wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the clear impression that this applies as much in Westminster as elsewhere....until they think we might actually vote yes.

Am expecting the glum boy three to meet up & give us a little song before they head back south to civilisation.

http://youtu.be/VI94AsuvUUA

[kaosmark2]

Summed up as most people in England don't give a shit about Scotland,

I don't think that's true. I just don't think they give less of a shit about Scottish politics as they do British politics.

[LJS]

National leaders do of the member states. ONLY those national leaders.

Care to take a stab at why matey is giving his view? He's wanting to highjack those powers for the EP, and you don't highjack anything via agreeing with the opposition.

In the midst of your own power-grab, you fail to spot a power grab. FFS.

In a shock move Neil disses another expert who disagrees with him whilst constantly slamming yes campaign for exactly the same.

Pots & kettles.

[LJS]

Oh look, here's sir Ian wood before he lost 8bn barrels of oil

Sir Ian Wood predicts 25bn barrels of oil still t:

[russycarps]

it's not about how much oil there is, it's about how costly it is to extract.

[CHRLY]

Latest poll puts it No 53%-Yes 47% excluding don't knows.

[LJS]

Latest poll puts it No 53%-Yes 47% excluding don't knows.

The Empire Strikes back?

Will LJS be proved wrong is his prediction of sweeping yes victory?

Will Russy lose his £13?

stay tuned to find out

[LJS]

Having been accused of "shitting on my kids" for voting yes, I find this quite appropriate...

Tory peer tells grand-daughter, 16: you'll be a family foreigner if it's Yes

Wednesday 10 September 2014

A Tory peer today warned his 16-year-old granddaughter, Katie, who lives near Peebles that she would become a foreigner, cut off from her family living in England, if Scotland votes for independence next week.

In a highly personal message to her, which he has decided to publish, Lord Cormack warned: "Much of the noise and ill-tempered debate of recent weeks seems to have obscured rather than illuminated the stark and simple fact: Do families like ours remain British or do those family members who live north of the border become citizens of a small country that is no longer a vital part of a great nation?"

He appealed to her: "You must now choose whether you remain British like your granny who was born in Aberdeen and me who was born in a family with deep Scottish roots, or whether you become a foreigner separated from us and from your cousins."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/tory-peer-tells-grand-daughter-16-youll-be-a-family-foreigner-if-its-yes.1410349423

Of course the House of Lords will be greatly missed in an Independent Scotland

Edited September 10, 2014 by LJS

[CHRLY]

The Empire Strikes back?

Will LJS be proved wrong is his prediction of sweeping yes victory?

Will Russy lose his £13?

stay tuned to find out

Haha just thought I'd put it out there.

I've been following this thread for months but not made many contributions as I don't have much to contribute I do know though that I would vote no and I hope from my (English) perspective that you/they vote no. I can fully see the reason for voting yes, the idea of never having a Tory government again is a great thought, but I want us all to work towards that together. Whatever happens I do wish the best of luck to everyone in Scotland. I think the whole debate has been great in the way that people have engaged in it and I think it's given people a lot more confidence to stand up to Westmister.

P.S did anyone see that the SNP/BBC have allegedly withdrawn George Galloway's invitation to appear on question time tomorrow? He was going to be the official voice of NO. All this is according to his official twitter page.

Edited September 10, 2014 by CHRLY

[CHRLY]

Double post

Edited September 10, 2014 by CHRLY

[LJS]

it's not about how much oil there is, it's about how costly it is to extract.

you are of course correct - although much of the criticism of the yes side from BT (&Neil) has been about he total amount of reserves

[micawber]

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome

[Wooderson]

Nordies in East Belshaft not gonna like giving up the Jack.

[LJS]

PS: the numbers I gave you are complex, and as I said they're not from a single source.

They require intelligence and effort to analyse.

Is that why you're running away from doing it yourself?

(yes, I'm trying to goad you into it, because simple truthful statements don't have to doing your own investigations, you simply believe the likes of WoS instead ).

Yeah, I swallow WOS hook, line & sinker. and I have read or researched nothing a t all off my own bat.

Your unlinked & unverified stats are worth naff all but i did have a quick look at

http://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/assessment/monitoring/monitoring-reports/monitoring-report-6-2013---official-statistics-in-the-context-of-the-referendum-on-scottish-independence.pdf

which seeing as it is produced by the UK statistics authority. It has graphs showing relative budget balance & fiscal balance - at a quick glance if you take Scotland with geographic share of oil vs Uk it looks similar to your table but the UK stats include 100% oil so I query whether your table also does the same (the word "geographic" in an unlinked table is meaningless)

if you want to have a look for yourself the graphs are on pages 40 & 41

the following observation also appears

Charts 8.1 and 8.2 show how the population based, and geographic based, current budget

balance estimates and net fiscal balance estimates for Scotland compare with the UK

position. With a population share of the offshore economy, Scotland has had a higher current

budget deficit and net fiscal deficit relative to its GDP compared to the UK for every year

since 1980-81. However, if allocated a geographical share of North Sea oil revenues,

Scotland‟s budget balance on both bases is slightly more favourable than the UK.

Edited September 10, 2014 by LJS

[brandycoke]

Latest poll puts it No 53%-Yes 47% excluding don't knows.

Obviously changes by the hour, as news reports now suggest the complete opposite.

Suppose it depends on which news you're tuned in to though.

Edited September 10, 2014 by brandycoke

[CHRLY]

Obviously changes by the hour, as news reports now suggest the complete opposite.

Yep. Just thought it was appropriate because of the hype that the 51% in favour of Yes has recieved in the last few days

[LJS]

Obviously changes by the hour, as news reports now suggest the complete opposite.

Suppose it depends on which news you're tuned in to though.

i think there have been reports on Sky of an unnamed No Mp saying their internal polling has Yes in the lead ( I am giving absolutely no weight to this - just suggesting where the report may have come from)

[Comfy Bean]

Nordies in East Belshaft not gonna like giving up the Jack.

A lot of them are heading over for a wander...walk this weekend in Edinburgh. Think it`s Farage Friday, Orange Order Saturday. 10`s of 1000`s apparently in support of the union. Horrible scenes expected. Hopefully no YES types will toss an egg into the mayhem or the media will have a field day.

[LJS]

A lot of them are heading over for a wander...walk this weekend in Edinburgh. Think it`s Farage Friday, Orange Order Saturday. 10`s of 1000`s apparently in support of the union. Horrible scenes expected. Hopefully no YES types will toss an egg into the mayhem or the media will have a field day.

I am working in Edinburgh on Saturday morning - I will be getting the Hell out as soon as I am done

[lost]

Also noticed in the Daily Record poll how much stronger the no vote is in Southern Scotland.. Scotland's Crimea?

[Lizzim]

I will be in London this weekend thankfully I will avoid any ugly scenes in Edinburgh. The No campaign is awful, designed to push any undecided to yes. You would think it deliberate.

I completely understand the vision but question if it is achievable or will make any difference. My hope is that it is No but it does its purpose as a protest vote and awakes the socialist and liberal (not the Clegg liberal) movement. Ok slightly bevvied so words don't come over so good.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Lizzim

[LJS]

I will be in London this weekend thankfully I will avoid any ugly scenes in Edinburgh. The No campaign is awful, designed to push any undecided to yes. You would think it deliberate.

I completely understand the vision but question if it is achievable or will make any difference. My hope is that it is No but it does its purpose as a protest vote and awakes the socialist and liberal (not the Clegg liberal) movement. Ok slightly bevvied so words don't come over so good.

Have a glass for me Lizzim

I wish I shared your hope for awakening Socialism & liberalism after a no vote (although I am not optimistic) &although i will clearly be disappointed if you guys win, if in 5 years time I can look back & see a swing to the left in UK politics & a continuation of the sort of engagement we have seen in this campaign, then I might feel we have achieved something.

[Lizzim]

LJS cheers. I'm off to see Kate Bush on Saturday I will send your regards.