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People saw Foreman coming too, but he still lost.

Precisely. Marciano didn't.

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The best, to me, requires beating the competition on an even playing field. Marciano proved he was the best of his time. Although he fought in a golden era, I don't think Ali did this. I think he was the most clever of his time because he changed the playing field, but not necessarily the best.

I get your point yeah, but by that logic, David Haye and the Klitschkos could be on the list of the all time greats.

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I get your point yeah, but by that logic, David Haye and the Klitschkos could be on the list of the all time greats.

And what exactly do you think that they're fighting for if not to be on that list? Every dominant champion of an era is put on such lists. It's what it's all about.

But as Deedles pointed out, it's impossible to compare Champions across eras as they're a product of their times. And as I said, arguments are as much about preference of era as they are boxer.

You've inspired me to dig out some classic bouts though. B)

Edited by worm

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And what exactly do you think that they're fighting for if not to be on that list? Every dominant champion of an era is put on such lists. It's what it's all about.

But as Deedles pointed out, it's impossible to compare Champions across eras as they're a product of their times. And as I said, arguments are as much about preference of era as much as boxer.

Oh I agree and its totally up to opinion – but can be narrowed down.

On a side note – what do you think of the Haye vs Klitschko fight? Hopefully on the same time as Coldplay at Glasto so wont have to watch those c**ts.

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Oh I agree and its totally up to opinion – but can be narrowed down.

On a side note – what do you think of the Haye vs Klitschko fight? Hopefully on the same time as Coldplay at Glasto so wont have to watch those c**ts.

Well said. Very much looking forward to it. It's probably the first real fight since, well, erm, Lewis fought someone on the way out from the last golden era.

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No mine rests on the most important of all comparisons when judging their place in history – how they did vs their opposition and more importantly, the quality of the opposition during their career. The only period in heavyweight division history that was weaker than in Marcianos time is now.

People saw Foreman coming too, but he still lost.

P.S. Marcianos style was NOT uniformal. Far from it.

Marciano era was not that weak, I mean he fought Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles.

I wouldn't call those opponents weak at all

Edited by A-Rob

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Marciano era was not that weak, I mean he fought Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles.

I wouldn't call those opponents weak at all

He means comparitavely speaking.

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Marciano era was not that weak, I mean he fought Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles.

I wouldn't call those opponents weak at all

All good fighters but past it at the time, much like when Lewis fought Tyson. Age has something to do with it but some guys just lose their edge.

Whe Marciano fought those guys:

Jersey Joe Walcott was 39 years old. Way past it.

Ezzard Charles was only fighting at this point as he was broke, he went on to lose 12 of his next 23 fights after Marciano.

Archie Moore was 42 years old.

Joe Louis was 37 years old and it was his last match, Louis was totally finished at this point, had lost his speed and punch, and a lot of his recent fights before that were exhibitions.

If he had have beaten them in their prime then it would've been different.

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See the Amir Khan fight tomorrow night is free now? Was supposed to be PPV but now free due to lack of uptake. Sweet.

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Had the misfortune of paying for the Amir Khan fight on Saturday night. Awful stuff. He didnt fancy it at all. Not a great fighter either is he? Hes quick, but thats about it.

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Had the misfortune of paying for the Amir Khan fight on Saturday night. Awful stuff. He didnt fancy it at all. Not a great fighter either is he? Hes quick, but thats about it.

yeap, absolutely right apart from his speed, he doesn't have much I mean average skills and a glass chin.

He's very lucky becuase this is second fight he won becuase of a cut (due to headbutt). His fight with Barrera should have been defo a no contest.

The only decent opponents he beat where Malignaggi and Madiana and some people felt he lost the fight against Madiana. I can't rely comment about that fight because I did not see it.

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Had the misfortune of paying for the Amir Khan fight on Saturday night. Awful stuff. He didnt fancy it at all. Not a great fighter either is he? Hes quick, but thats about it.

My sentiments precisely, he's very chinny and leaves himself open - although he is very fast. i read (admittedly in a tabloid) that after his next (or next two) defences he'll be aiming to fight Manny Pacquiao in late 2011 at welterweight. Amazingly, i could see Khan winning that one as i think Pacquaio's getting a bit old now with too many hard fights under his belt - although i think Pacquiao'll have little difficulty seeing off Shane Moseley next month.

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July 2nd announced as date for fight between Wladimir Klitschko and David Haye.

link

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Fantastic. Wont miss it at Glasto then! :D

Excellent. Nice to have a date for David Haye's retirement party.

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Finally a HW bout that is worth getting exicted about.

My Prediction, Wlad by UD

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Finally a HW bout that is worth getting exicted about.

My Prediction, Wlad by UD

That'd be where my money would be too. But do you think Haye will retire like he says he will once he turns 31 (or is it 32?) on the back of a loss?

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Domestically, a successful bid has won the right to hold a Tyson Fury - Derek Chisora fight.

link

I'd really like to see that one and I'd quite fancy Chisora to come out on top - Fury's a big lad with a big punch but, to my mind, he's lacking in speed and lateral movement.

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Very interesting article (well, i thought so anyway) from Barry Macguigan on Boxers fitness training methods in the past compared to today.

fitness

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It'll be a fantastic feat if Hopkins, at 46, can beat Pascal tonight. I just hope it doesn't go the distance and Pascal gets a 'home town' decision as many pundits reckoned that's what happened last time they met when it was given as a draw.

And what does anyone make of this Degale - Groves bad-feeling? Is it just 'handbags' to sell the fight, or do they really have a beef with each other? I know De Gale got the nod for the Olympic slot in spite of Groves having beaten him at ABA level and that rubbed Groves up the wrong way, but i just can't take the bad-mouthing seriously.

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So Haye looking to fight Vitali in September. Interesting.

Predictions for Saturday? Tough to call but I reckon it'll be Haye within 9.

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Klitschko whenever he wants after the sixth.

Can somebody explain to me who exactly David Haye has beaten?

Do people need reminding that Valuev is a big lug with no skills who won a VERY controversial split decision to Evander Holyfield? Who was a 44 year old puffed up Crusierweight? 40 year old never had a prime John Ruiz? Fraudley?

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