oh oh looks like cavey was right!

[quack quack]

Joe Pigeon has sent email to sponsors saying due to unforeseen circumstances etc festival is cancelled !!!!!

[SFrench]

The website confirms it as well. Bit late to change plans. The group i'm going with have decided to go anyway and have a party regardless. On the friday night that is. It would be great if everyone could join forces?

[Medina]

Big Green Gathering, Bloom, Tidworth, Twilight, Falmouth Sound and now this one as well... an awful lot of festivals have been cancelled in the last month.

Looks like the recession may at last have caught-up with the festival scene.

[eFestivals]

Big Green Gathering, Bloom, Tidworth, Twilight, Falmouth Sound and now this one as well... an awful lot of festivals have been cancelled in the last month.

Looks like the recession may at last have caught-up with the festival scene.

some of it - BGG, and Beachdown (if not others) - is actually much to do with the financial failures of their previous fests, and them trying to use money from sales for this year to cover debts from their previous festivals. I think similar might have gone on with Bloom as well, as I know that they have unpaid bills from last year too.

[Medina]

some of it - BGG, and Beachdown (if not others) - is actually much to do with the financial failures of their previous fests, and them trying to use money from sales for this year to cover debts from their previous festivals. I think similar might have gone on with Bloom as well, as I know that they have unpaid bills from last year too.

[eFestivals]

Very fair point and I'm sure you're right Neil but as I've said on the other Beachdown thread there are also many other festivals that have used money from advance ticket sales to pay the previous year's bills and yet have still succeeded in continuing to stage their events year-after-year-after-year without fail.

It's not something I've ever done with my own festivals but it is something that I know many others do.

I think the difference between those you're thinking of and the likes of Beachdown is probably down to the scale of their financial failures and how they go about addressing those failures.

I don't want to go into too much detail (because the likes of eFestivals has to be careful about legal comebacks), but Beachdown after last year appear to have done some things that were a very long way from what might be considered best practice in dealing with their unpaid creditors, and I suspect that this has ultimately impacted severely on its ability to run a fest this year, with many contractors only happy to deal with them if paid up-front.

[5co77ie]

Big Green Gathering, Bloom, Tidworth, Twilight, Falmouth Sound and now this one as well... an awful lot of festivals have been cancelled in the last month.

Looks like the recession may at last have caught-up with the festival scene.

[Medina]

More good points from both Neil and 5co77ie above.

BBC TV South lunchtime news had a live report from the site showing marquees, toilets, roadway etc. all in place so presumably the organisers had hoped to go-ahead until very late in the day.

The problem for organisers can sometimes be one of cash-flow - artists and infrastructure suppliers increasingly want payment before the event starts yet the promoters often can't get hold of their ticket monies from agencies and box office outlets until after the event has finished.

If someone pulls out because they haven't been paid in advance then problems can very quickly escalate.

From what Neil has said above this may well be what happened here. The money may simply have run out because people wanted payment upfront especially if they'd had payment problems last year.

It's sad for all involved. Artists, suppliers, traders, organisers and many ticket-buyers are all likely to lose out.

That said, if anyone is looking for an alternative there's a free festival just 50 miles along the coast near Portsmouth this weekend - the Gosport Waterfront Festival - see their website for details: http://www.gosportfestival.org.uk/

It's not Beachdown, there's no formal campsite but it is free to get in and there's no danger of it being cancelled at short notice.

[5co77ie]

I think some of the problem is that the way people buy festival tickets has changed - people are for more prepared to wait and see what the weather is doing, a lot of ticket sales can then be generated at short notice if the weather is good.

However with less early purchasing - then there will be a cash flow problem and with Beachdown having to pay £50,000 to the police upfront in June and a further £100,000 bond to the Highways Agency and financial problems last year - which i believe left a lot of local companies disgruntled - the problem is only worsened with more wanting up front payments.

The current spell of bad weather means that ticket sales in the last week weren't going to be high - we have the remains of a hurricane over our shores - that means no big roll up and no more money.

[5co77ie]

The website confirms it as well. Bit late to change plans. The group i'm going with have decided to go anyway and have a party regardless. On the friday night that is. It would be great if everyone could join forces?

[stillill]

Got the 'return your ticket for a refund' thing from SeeTickets. With fees and recorded postage fees, going to be in excess of £10 down the pan - can SeeTickets not just put the money back on the card?

Edited August 26, 2009 by stillill

[Abensie]

Hi All

I know i posted this in the other thread too but does anyone know if Ticketline will be refuding?

thanks,

[eFestivals]

Got the 'return your ticket for a refund' thing from SeeTickets. With fees and recorded postage fees, going to be in excess of £10 down the pan - can SeeTickets not just put the money back on the card?

I guess that the person holding a paid-for ticket is not necessarily the same person who paid for the ticket (due to friends buying for other friends, etc), and that this has caused them problems in the past when they've refunded back to the buying card - after all, if you've paid your mate for him buying you your ticket and then your mate doesn't pay you the refunded money, you don't get refunded for the paid-for ticket you're holding.

[rhythm2006]

I think some of the problem is that the way people buy festival tickets has changed - people are for more prepared to wait and see what the weather is doing, a lot of ticket sales can then be generated at short notice if the weather is good.

[BT Rich]

I'm sure this is sometimes true, but in my experience, a last minute surge in ticket sales is the festival world's equivalent of a mythical beast. We all think it exists, we all pin our hopes on it existing, and yet very few people have actually seen one.

I think the simple truth is that less people are buying tickets full stop and citing bad weather as a factor. Rhythm Festival had fantastic weekend weather, yet we only sold around 10% of our tickets in the last week, and had a very low walk-up. As with most other "boutique" events, our attendance was slightly down this year, mainly on day tickets, but (luckily for us) not disastrously so. Fortunately we had budgeted for the recession - swine flu and the weather were added bonuses!

Sadly, I think that organisers who hope and pray for a last minute rush in ticket sales, are probably kidding themselves. I know I was guilty of it. The key seems to be to capitalise on satisfied customers buying Early Bird tickets and spreading the word organically throughout the year. I have come to the conclusion that the crucial time is 6 weeks to 2 months before the event... the ticket sales you have then are the best indicator of how you're going to do.

Discuss?

Edited August 28, 2009 by BT Rich

[Medina]

In my experience, a last minute surge in ticket sales is the festival world's equivalent of a mythical beast.

Sadly, I think that organisers who hope and pray for a last minute rush in ticket sales, are probably kidding themselves.

Discuss?

[eFestivals]

I don’t think festivals can rely on the line up for selling out anymore, you have to go out looking for sales. Some big bands were lined up for some of the cancelled festivals and they struggled with sales.

I'd disagree with that - while you might consider the bands at some of the cancelled fests as 'big', I think that often they're only big with the press they get, and the actual interest in them is far far lower.

From experience, I'm now getting pretty good at looking at a line-up and thinking "that's not going to sell" - and I'd guess that I'm right 80%+ of the time.

The right line-up will always sell - the likes of Reading/Leeds, V, and T in the Park prove this year on year. The difficulties for the smaller fests is that they can't get many of the bands that are on the bill of those larger fests (due to exclusivity clauses), and are mostly left with bands from the same pool as every other small fest is choosing from, which then makes it difficult to stand out from those other fests.

Ultimately, for a smaller fest to be successful, it needs more than just bands from that standard pool everyone is choosing from. That means either going out on a limb with a more unusual band or line-up, or creating an appeal with something other than just the bands. It can be done and done very well, as some fests get to prove.

But at the same time, you're definitely right about putting work into getting the sales - far too many fests think that their work is over (aside from the site production) once the bands are booked. With so many small fests out there with so many of the same bands it's unlikely that a particular one is going to particularly jump out at enough people to create all of the necessary sales without it being pushed into people's faces at least a little bit.

[BT Rich]

I'd disagree with that - while you might consider the bands at some of the cancelled fests as 'big', I think that often they're only big with the press they get, and the actual interest in them is far far lower.

From experience, I'm now getting pretty good at looking at a line-up and thinking "that's not going to sell" - and I'd guess that I'm right 80%+ of the time.

The right line-up will always sell - the likes of Reading/Leeds, V, and T in the Park prove this year on year. The difficulties for the smaller fests is that they can't get many of the bands that are on the bill of those larger fests (due to exclusivity clauses), and are mostly left with bands from the same pool as every other small fest is choosing from, which then makes it difficult to stand out from those other fests.

Ultimately, for a smaller fest to be successful, it needs more than just bands from that standard pool everyone is choosing from. That means either going out on a limb with a more unusual band or line-up, or creating an appeal with something other than just the bands. It can be done and done very well, as some fests get to prove.

But at the same time, you're definitely right about putting work into getting the sales - far too many fests think that their work is over (aside from the site production) once the bands are booked. With so many small fests out there with so many of the same bands it's unlikely that a particular one is going to particularly jump out at enough people to create all of the necessary sales without it being pushed into people's faces at least a little bit.

[eFestivals]

We have learnt to go after bands with a hardcore following, Hawkwind this year was a great investment to our festival as they shifted a lot of tickets, even though we could not officially announce them until late in the day - (we did leak it out as agreed with the band). Also getting a blend of local bands who will bring families/friends to see them play on a big stage is a good way of getting a few sales.

Next year we have booked a couple of bands again with a hardcore following as we know they will shift tickets, but being a small event your choice of line up is limited. The "bigger" bands who will play that are affordable will be at loads of other festivals throughout the summer, which doesnt make the appearance at your festival unique.

Hawkwind was definitely a goodie, because of their 'hardcore' (god I hate that word) fans as well as them not constantly touring the UK.

However there's other bands with similar hardcore followings that won't prove to be such a draw, as they play all around the UK all the time as well as appearing a quite a lot of festivals. As such, you perhaps need to be a little careful going this route as you won't get to capture those hardcore fans quite as easily.

[BT Rich]

Hawkwind was definitely a goodie, because of their 'hardcore' (god I hate that word) fans as well as them not constantly touring the UK.

However there's other bands with similar hardcore followings that won't prove to be such a draw, as they play all around the UK all the time as well as appearing a quite a lot of festivals. As such, you perhaps need to be a little careful going this route as you won't get to capture those hardcore fans quite as easily.

[llcoolphil]

So far as the smaller (under 10,000 capacity) festivals are concerned I believe the general ambience of the event, the location, audience loyalty built-up over many years and perceived value-for-money are all important factors.

What do others think? What do people most look for when deciding to attend an event for the first time? Discuss!

[beamends]

I can't help wondering if there isn't a bit of over supply in the festival market - too many events chasing too few customers, and those without that something special to offer are suffering? Just a thought.

BT Rich - I don't suppose you could mange Steve Hilllage - stole the show at Glastonbury!

Edited August 28, 2009 by beamends

[rseamer]

loyalty built-up over many years and perceived value-for-money are all important factors.

Hampshire County Council did some research on outdoor events a few years ago which suggested a successful event needs a USP (Unique Selling Point). It may be the type of music. It may be the type of festival. It may be the other activities on offer. It may be the location (I'm sure Larmer Tree, for example, benefits from its particularly attractive location) but, to succeed, a festival needs something that makes it stand out from the crowd.

What do others think? What do people most look for when deciding to attend an event for the first time? Discuss!

[eFestivals]

I can't help wondering if there isn't a bit of over supply in the festival market - too many events chasing too few customers, and those without that something special to offer are suffering? Just a thought.

I think there's enough custom for them all, but only if they're all able to be doing things right. And of course, the doing things right can be many different things.

But what it very probably isn't (from many cancelled fests of the last four or five years) is a line-up full of the latest (newest) nme-approved bands which barely have more than one single released and sometimes not even that. Such bands have loads of hype, but often little interest to match that hype.

(If you can be bothered, just search back thru the festivals that eFestivals has listed as cancelled over the last four or five years, and you'll get to see that festivals with that sort of line-up have a very high failure rate!)

I had a conversation a few years ago with a booking agent from one of the larger booking agencies, and he mentioned - in part joking - that he considered any festival with a particular fairly well-known nme-favourite act (who I'm not going to name, it wouldn't be fair on them) on the bill as unlikely to happen, because they'd been on the bill of quite a large number of failed festivals previous to that. Off the back of his words I've paid a little attention to watching what happens with fests since that have that band on the bill, and I've got to say, what he said continued to hold true, and more fests that act was on the bill of have failed since.

If I did name the act, I think a lot of people would be quite surprised - as I say, they're fairly well-known (as a name, if not their music), and they're not (as far as I'm aware) a particularly hated band by scensters, and people often express their like for them. I guess that they, along with the bands they often get put alongside on festival bills, simply aren't liked enough to have people parting with their money.

Having written that, I've realised that it might be another thing - the age of their fanbase. The fans of acts like this perhaps aren't old enough &/or rich enough to be able to attend festivals.

[beamends]

I think there's enough custom for them all, but only if they're all able to be doing things right. And of course, the doing things right can be many different things.

But what it very probably isn't (from many cancelled fests of the last four or five years) is a line-up full of the latest (newest) nme-approved bands which barely have more than one single released and sometimes not even that. Such bands have loads of hype, but often little interest to match that hype.

(If you can be bothered, just search back thru the festivals that eFestivals has listed as cancelled over the last four or five years, and you'll get to see that festivals with that sort of line-up have a very high failure rate!)

I had a conversation a few years ago with a booking agent from one of the larger booking agencies, and he mentioned - in part joking - that he considered any festival with a particular fairly well-known nme-favourite act (who I'm not going to name, it wouldn't be fair on them) on the bill as unlikely to happen, because they'd been on the bill of quite a large number of failed festivals previous to that. Off the back of his words I've paid a little attention to watching what happens with fests since that have that band on the bill, and I've got to say, what he said continued to hold true, and more fests that act was on the bill of have failed since.

If I did name the act, I think a lot of people would be quite surprised - as I say, they're fairly well-known (as a name, if not their music), and they're not (as far as I'm aware) a particularly hated band by scensters, and people often express their like for them. I guess that they, along with the bands they often get put alongside on festival bills, simply aren't liked enough to have people parting with their money.

Having written that, I've realised that it might be another thing - the age of their fanbase. The fans of acts like this perhaps aren't old enough &/or rich enough to be able to attend festivals.