Big Green Gathering 2009

[Toast]

Ere Neil, check the second lot of minutes, Im pretty sure it states a couple of things the old 5 0 werent happy about!

[Alchemy Festival]

Spoke to bgg today. The woman told me it was almost completely the police. She also said that in order to get a refund for a credit/debit card, ring/see(cant remember which) your bank. And this is the juicy bit - you shouldnt have to give in your wristband, meaning you can still get money off another festival!

[eFestivals]

Ere Neil, check the second lot of minutes, Im pretty sure it states a couple of things the old 5 0 werent happy about!

I think the most relevant line in all of those documents is this: All parties are reminded of the provisions for review of the licence. Which of course means that if the terms of the licence are not met, the licence can be revoked at any time.

I'd guess that the authorities threatened use of an injunction was an arse-covering exercise by them - after all, if a court revokes the licence, then there's no come-back onto those authorities whereas if those authorities revoked the licence on their own recognizance and it was successfully appealed by BGG, then those authorities would be liable to pay BGG compensation for their loses.

I'd be interested to know if the two people who were to be named as a part of the injunction were the site licence holders. Does anyone know? Cos while schnews like to suggest that the naming of two individuals was a political tactic, it's far more likely that those named people were included for legal reasons (such as making any injunction water-tight from appeal).

[haznutuk]

Another statement from Mendip:

Big Green Gathering - updated statement

28 July 2009

Following a decision by the Big Green Gathering to cancel its event by surrendering the licence, this has meant that Mendip District Council has not needed to apply to the High Court for an injunction to stop the event.

The failure of the organisers to address a number of serious public safety issues meant that they had no other option but to cancel it themselves.

The fact is that organisers chose to surrender the licence before an application was made to the High Court.

The final decision to prepare legal papers for a High Court hearing was made on Friday evening (July 24), but a court application was not expected to be made until yesterday (Monday, July 27).

In addition to the several months of help and advice they had been given by both us and emergency services, the weekend provided even more opportunity for the organisers to fulfil their licence obligations.

However, they handed their licence back to us on Sunday morning (July 26).

Many hours of council time have been committed to help make this event happen, but the lack of assurances from the organisers about the safety of their event were continually causing concern for the council and emergency services.

There has been an apparent lack of coordination in managing and meeting the obligations of the licence, and now the cancellation of this event creates many more issues and a heavier workload for the council and emergency services than if it had gone ahead safely.

Mendip is a council which is recognised nationally with its partners for licensing large events.

The bottom line is we know about licensing festivals, and therefore would not have taken a decision to consider legal action lightly. Preparing for legal action is a last resort.

All festivals, no matter how big or small, must go through a strict licensing process with public safety and crime and disorder playing a major part in that process.

A number of untrue accusations are circulating throughout the media and on internet sites. These are without substance.

The council's decision to pursue an injunction was a last resort. It only considered such action because the organisers did not fulfil their obligations under the licence.

The council recognises people's frustrations but despite the best efforts of the council and emergency services, the event was cancelled by the organisers because the requirements of the licence were not met.

http://www.mendip.gov.uk/NewsArticle.asp?id=SX9452-A782DAC6

[eFestivals]

I was just about to post what hazel has done.

I think it gives a clear assessment of what actually happened, free of the paranoid shite that BGG would like people to believe.

[BT Rich]

In fairness Neil is talking a lot of sense.

I think anyone who has applied for a license knows the score here.

If you have been granted a license you still need to comply with various conditions by certain periods for the license to be valid.

In fairness the conditions in most cases are workable and more to do with safety and common sense. We had achieved (excluding noise monitoring, crowd control) all the conditions even before they were imposed on the license so it didnt really bother us to a great extent, a few things we were not exactly overjoyed with. Thats the joy of having a good Health and Safety advisor and solicitor for the whole licensing process and for the festival duration.

Literally the red tape and jumping through hoops is there to stay and the only way is to work with it.

However I can imagine our council getting very wound up and would not think twice about cancelling it should we not comply with the conditions set out.

Its a massive shame for BGG as I have always wanted to go but never got round to it. I hope people get their hard earned money back and in some way the event comes back next year, a bit wiser and a lot stronger.

Edited July 28, 2009 by BT Rich

[Guest Flip]

I was just about to post what hazel has done.

I think it gives a clear assessment of what actually happened, free of the paranoid shite that BGG would like people to believe.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Flip

[eFestivals]

This is one point of view, the 'paranoid shite' that you mention is the other. Why is this more believable than the other? See, thats where I am struggling.....

I have been reading Schnews for a very long time and find them normally quite spot-on and not printers of paranoid shite...

The paranoid shite is direct from BGG, in a press release they sent out yesterday (which I'm pretty sure I posted in this thread). The Schnews article takes that same paranoid line, with its comments such as "It’s clear now that the state views events like the Big Green in the same light as Climate Camp and the anti-G20 protests. The BGG saga is showing that there may no longer be any ‘safe’ legal spaces for us to gather.".

The simple fact is that BGG had not met its obligations in regard to its licence. Unless those obligations are met, then the licence can be revoked; a licence is *always* conditional on the terms of the licence.

The fact that BGG chose to hand back its licence after taking legal advice is an indication that it knew that it would lose an injunction case had it gone ahead; it would have only lost the injunction case if MDC &/or the police had been able to prove to the satisfaction of the court that BGG would not be able to meet its licence obligations.

Put simply: it seems very clear that BGG f**ked this up themselves.

Edited July 28, 2009 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

I forgot to include in that last post....

The decisions of the likes of MDC and the police in regard to revoking a licence would have to be legally water-tight for them to be able to revoke the licence - this is what makes their view more believable; they KNOW that they have to be able to justify to the nth legal degree their decisions, while BGG do not.

As this scenario has shown, BGG can put out paranoid wafflings while avoiding making any statement about what they did and didn't do in regard to the licence - and this is what they have done. What's the come back onto BGG from doing so (other than ensuring that they'll never get an easy time with MDC ever again )? Nothing at all.

There's not an even basis to both sides of this argument; that uneven basis makes one side's views more worthy than the other's.

I know from conversations I've had with people I trust implicitly who've have conversations in the last few days with BGG that BGG admit privately that they did not fulfil their licence conditions. This is why what happened has happened.

Why not ask BGG yourself the explicit question: had you fulfilled your licence conditions? There is only one truthful and honest answer they can give you.

[rabid]

There is only one truthful and honest answer they can give you.

[eFestivals]

I suggest a read of this article:-

http://www.efestivals.co.uk/news/09/090728b.shtml

The initial statement is one that's been written by MDC, and the same as posted earlier in this thread by hazel.

Below it are some "frequently asked questions" with answers, which have also been compiled by MDC. Within it, it states VERY clearly: "The organisers signed up to legal commitments associated with the licence, some of which they failed to meet, and are bound by other legislation."

Would any council make any such categorical statement if it wasn't correct? Only if they had the world's worst lawyers I reckon.

[Ringoid]

Well it's very sad one way or another that this has happened. However some of us still want to have a break right?

If anyone is thinking "what else can I go to", as i have been for the last 12 hours. Here are a couple of ideas:

Note these are the week AFTER BGG.

Endorse it in Dorset, www.lgofestivals.com I emailed them today and they say if you turn up with your BGG wristband they will sell you a ticket for £50 on the gate on Friday (email copied at the bottom of this post). This looks like a good smallish festie if you have a family. They have actually reduced ticket sales this year to keep the atmosphere.

Boomtown Fair www.boomtownfair.co.uk - I went to this last year (It was called Recydrate the West Last Year.) and I think I will go to this instead of BGG. It has all the good bands from BGG eg Glitzy Baghags, and also a few really good Dub acts including Irration Steppas and Vibronics (prob about the best out there in my opinion).

Probably not so family oriented as BGG, but similar in some ways (strawbales and scrumpy), a small friendly festival that I imagine will be going all night long.

Cost is about £60

Below is the email from Endorse it I received today (tuesday)

Endorse it offers reduced price tickets to Big Green Gathering ticket holders.

In support of the ticket holders of The Big Green Gathering, who have lost out on this weeks festivities, The Endorse it in Dorset Festival has developed a package to try to help.

Both festivals share a lot of the same punters, both coming from an none corporate, old school festival ideal.

BGG Ticket holders can turn up on the Friday and purchase tickets on the gate at a reduced price of

£50 for an adult weekend ticket

£15 for a 10-15 yr old

£5 for under 10's

Ticket holders MUST bring their BGG wrist band to show - these are the only accepted proof. These will be issued on a first come, first served basis. Please ring 0792 0843448 for updates on ticket availability if you are travelling a long way. This will be a live number from Thursday 6th August.

[dandreamweva]

I'm sure it is.

However, from listening, it seems VERY clear that BGG fell well short in meeting their regulatory obligations year after year after year (I've seen this as good as admitted by BGG people themselves), and that this year was going to be no different. Bearing that in mind, it's hardly a huge surprise that the authorities acted to revoke the licence - there will always become a point in those circumstances where they've had enough. On top of that, from BGG-involved people's comments, it seems that they had come to believe that falling short was acceptable.

And the BGG claim the actions to shut them down are 'unprecedented'. Yet funnily enough, we all happen to know of another festival in MDCs area that much the same happened with, where meeting its regulatory obligations year on year were ignored, until such time as the council said enough is enough. The only answer for that festival - Glastonbury (for those that haven't worked it out) - after having shown themselves as unable to meet the requirements from their internal team was to get in professional outsiders. Ultimately, they had to make the choice that if they wanted to continue with the festival, they had to do what was required of them.

The difference with what happened with Glastonbury compared to BGG is only with the timing of action taken against each fest. With the BGG, it seems that the authorities gave them the benefit of the doubt that they could get their act together, and only acted when it became clear that they couldn't; the BGG were offered chances not given to another festival.

I think the disorganisation at BGG this year is very clearly demonstrated by the fact that they didn't get around to getting their tickets printed. If they can't fulfil the simple tasks needed to put on a festival then god knows what state the more complex tasks were in.

[dandreamweva]

I have contacted BGG to see if I can help, but after reading this thread and this post, not sure if I will be able to!

[Sawdusty surfer]

i've heard that when the bgg directors finally decided to hand back their license......................................................they couldn't find it

[dorlomin]

I suggest a read of this article:-

http://www.efestivals.co.uk/news/09/090728b.shtml

The initial statement is one that's been written by MDC, and the same as posted earlier in this thread by hazel.

Below it are some "frequently asked questions" with answers, which have also been compiled by MDC. Within it, it states VERY clearly: "The organisers signed up to legal commitments associated with the licence, some of which they failed to meet, and are bound by other legislation."

Would any council make any such categorical statement if it wasn't correct? Only if they had the world's worst lawyers I reckon.

Edited July 28, 2009 by dorlomin

[Flounder]

Primarily Endorse it has offered cheap tickets to BGG wristband holders to give disappointed punters somewhere to go that although we are not promoting ourselves as a "green" festival ( although we are getting there ) has a similar, non-commercial vibe.

Once the season is over, providing what comes out in the wash, we may be looking at getting some festival organisers together to review the situation, possibly with the help of the AFO ( association of festival organisers )- as stated earlier in this thread.

All this aside, there could well be a reason MDC are following the road closure to the letter.

from The Independat 2nd Sep 1996

Six young music fans died in a head-on collision near the Somerset town of Frome yesterday. The four men and two women - aged 18 to 25 - were returning from the One World music festival, near Nunney Catch services on the A361, about five miles from the market town.

Police believe that their blue and silver Ford Fiesta crossed the carriageway to collide head-on with a white Transit van travelling in the opposite direction on the A361. The Fiesta spun round in the roadway to mount a grass verge, striking two men who were walking there. One of the walkers was seriously injured, receiving chest, leg, head and abdomen injuries. He was airlifted to the Frenchay Hospital, Bristol, where he was in critical condition last night.

[Medina]

BGG is now cancelled, but we will be looking at getting a group of festival organisers together ( possibly with the AFO - Association of Festival Organisers) once the season has finished, to look at the potential impact that this has on all festivals. Anyone wanting to be in on this, please PM me ( Medina I suspect that you'll be up for this) and we'll be in touch.

[BT Rich]

Primarily Endorse it has offered cheap tickets to BGG wristband holders to give disappointed punters somewhere to go that although we are not promoting ourselves as a "green" festival ( although we are getting there ) has a similar, non-commercial vibe.

Once the season is over, providing what comes out in the wash, we may be looking at getting some festival organisers together to review the situation, possibly with the help of the AFO ( association of festival organisers )- as stated earlier in this thread.

All this aside, there could well be a reason MDC are following the road closure to the letter.

from The Independat 2nd Sep 1996

Six young music fans died in a head-on collision near the Somerset town of Frome yesterday. The four men and two women - aged 18 to 25 - were returning from the One World music festival, near Nunney Catch services on the A361, about five miles from the market town.

Police believe that their blue and silver Ford Fiesta crossed the carriageway to collide head-on with a white Transit van travelling in the opposite direction on the A361. The Fiesta spun round in the roadway to mount a grass verge, striking two men who were walking there. One of the walkers was seriously injured, receiving chest, leg, head and abdomen injuries. He was airlifted to the Frenchay Hospital, Bristol, where he was in critical condition last night.

Edited July 28, 2009 by BT Rich

[Flounder]

Yes Flounder, I'm certainly up for this. I've only just had time to read this thread (busy preparing for the Stokes Bay Festival which opens tomorrow) but there are clear lessons to be learnt and, having had my own problems with our local Council (of which I used to be Council Leader many years ago) I think an AFO discussion would be a good idea.

In the meantime...

Our offer of half-price tickets to this weekend's Stokes Bay Festival for anyone with a BGG ticket or ticket confirmation still stands. Just turn-up and show your BGG ticket confirmation at the Box Office - we're not BGG but we can hopefully offer you a decent weekend's entertainment near the sea to make up for the disappointment of no BGG. Please see our website http://www.stokesbayfestival.co.uk for details.

And Flounder, if you'd like to pop along to Stokes Bay to hand out Endorse-It leaflets we'll be delighted to see you - just ask for me at the Box Office and I'll sort you guest tickets so you can leaflet the arena with your usual gusto!

Best wishes,

medina

[dorlomin]

Sorry but can someone please explain what the serious "potential for crime and disorder" was if this festival had gone ahead. Everyone is very keen to agree with the state but no one has explained to me what this "potential" was.

[Ringo_Spar]

Sorry but can someone please explain what the serious "potential for crime and disorder" was if this festival had gone ahead. Everyone is very keen to agree with the state but no one has explained to me what this "potential" was.

[haznutuk]

Sorry but can someone please explain what the serious "potential for crime and disorder" was if this festival had gone ahead.

[eFestivals]

Anyhow, perhaps Efestivals could use its significant standing to rally together a group of festival organisers and industry-heads to review the licensing laws and how they relate to outdoor events. From experience, there's a lot that needs refining in there.

I'm aware that conversations have already taken place between some festival organisers and BGG directors about looking at the implications of what happened with BGG in a common forums for those organisers such as the Association of Festival Organisers. It's something for festival organisers, and not a website whose primary focus is festival attendees.

[eFestivals]

I think what that post was trying to say was that the wristband entitles you to a swap to another AGREED festival - Big Chill, Sunrise, cheap entry in to Endorse-It.

Or at least I hope that is what they mean....

Having spoken with a contact of the person who made that post, I've been assured that that is not what was meant.