Beer tent clearance on Sunday night

[5co77ie]

I've merged all these threads saying the same thing - there's not much point in having the same discussion of multi-threads

[BillyJarvis]

I witnessed 3 incidences that were rough handled. I saw one guy on the Sunday evening - young chap we had been talking to him earlier that day soft spoken . 5 security staff got hold of him around 10.00pm by the main stage and I honestly thought they were going to break his back. I have 5 years medic training! He was bent facing up over a half fence two of the security had his legs held down on the floor and two others were pulling him backwards- this is really unacceptable behaviour even the police are NOT allowed to do this. Four individuals ran to his aid they equally concerned for his back (broken spines do not fix you know) The security were aggressive and really quite abusive - they pulled this poor lad up flicked him over and put handcuffs on him and wrenched his arms up his back - and dragged him away?

I mean did he have a gun or a knife - what would make security act in such a way - come on!

[William of Walworth]

No time yet for rest of thread but ...

Plus, how will a dog (specifically) be any more of a counter to a gun or a knife at a festival, than just some tough Security teams without dogs?

Edited August 13, 2008 by William of Walworth

[William of Walworth]

Nice post Ffi -- will be back next year for definite (with deb, who has never been,. and wants to). We badly missed it this year.. Apologies if my comments seem too negative. Just discussing specific issues is all.

And Kazric's post seems like a good balancing one, conforming with what I've heard of the fest in general from others -- friends who were there. I guess that the issues being raised here are very specific and isolated to one particular time/place probably.

I'm not dissing the fest at all, just questioning dogs. Glad to hear that their use for crowd clearance wasn't authorised, hopefully that'll be reiterated next time and nothing like what apparantly seems to have happened -- maybe -- will occur again

Edited August 13, 2008 by William of Walworth

[Phil Spectone]

Hi - my first post so maybe viewed as a bit suspicious by some people looking out for a conspiracy!

I thought that I had to add my two-penneth to what has become an unbalances account of EIID as far as I could see it - I'm sure those who experienced the incident in teh early hours of Monday were upset. However this was completely out of charactor in terms of the feel of the weekend.

It was one of the friendliest festivals I've ever been to.

The stewards were very friendly and respectful, not invasive but checking things out when they had to. I only saw 2 staff from the security company who were escorting someone who had become - ahem - emotional to a safe spot away from the general moshing.

The music was great esp Dreadzone, Ed Rome, Dead Plants, Tragic Roundabout etc etc.

The Ringwood beer was fantastic and the scrumpy good too. The toilets, much to my surprise, were the best at any festival big or small I've ever attended - there were lots of them (not once did I queue) 90% of the time had bog roll and were never overflowing

I don't know Mr Lamma (sp?) personally but wish I did. He was quietly encouraging to everyone I saw him talk to - smiling cheerfully and still able to knochk out 3 great sets - he must have been knackered

Good selection of food - OK a bit expensive at times but not overly

I saw no "attitude" from anyone - ironically the security staff at Camp Bestival seemed more aggressive that at EIID and that's a bit more of "yummy mummy" festival - no disrespect meant but you know what I mean

The backstage staff were very helpful

The 2 guys who drove the tractors could have been more helpful and seemed to be everywhere helping people out of the mud

Mnay thanks to all who put it together and I'll be back next year having recommended it to everyone I know. Those comments indicating that the EIID team set out to create a deliberately intimidating atmosphere are worthy of derision

Thankyou all

Phil

[William of Walworth]

That's a great and encouraging post, which makes me want to return next year even more (Ringwood 49er!! Top change! ).

But I don't think people were particularly blaming the EiiD organisers as such, OK some posts were very strongly worded and didn't emphasise enough how generally good the event was (as even us absentees hear by pretty much all accounts). Perhaps people should ahve emphasised that the APPARANT incidents in the bar were at a particular time and place, and not characteristic. We know from what Flounder and Ffi say that they will be investigated, and I have confidence in them that they'll sort things out.

[Phil Spectone]

That's a great and encouraging post, which makes me want to return next year even more (Ringwood 49er!! Top change! ).

But I don't think people were particularly blaming the EiiD organisers as such, OK some posts were very strongly worded and didn't emphasise enough how generally good the event was (as even us absentees hear by pretty much all accounts). Perhaps people should ahve emphasised that the APPARANT incidents in the bar were at a particular time and place, and not characteristic. We know from what Flounder and Ffi say that they will be investigated, and I have confidence in them that they'll sort things out.

[barbienightmare]

NB to barbiesnightmare: If you're interested I can pm you details of the new San Quentin theme park that has opened down the road from me.The security is great , no reported stabbings and the "Stars in their Eyes" Man in Black quarterfinalist is supposed to be playing next week. No need to worry about what kind of dogs they have, the're all killers and will do so if they dont like what you're wearing or how you smell. On the downside the food is supposed to be a bit shite and always comes on a tray with safety knives Also, security don't guarantee your safety after lights out

Edited August 13, 2008 by barbienightmare

[Loodlini]

NB to barbiesnightmare: If you're interested I can pm you details of the new San Quentin theme park that has opened down the road from me.The security is great , no reported stabbings and the "Stars in their Eyes" Man in Black quarterfinalist is supposed to be playing next week. No need to worry about what kind of dogs they have, the're all killers and will do so if they dont like what you're wearing or how you smell. On the downside the food is supposed to be a bit shite and always comes on a tray with safety knives Also, security don't guarantee your safety after lights out

[Dipster]

Just a hunch but there's a few too many assumptions and not so many 'without a shadow of a doubt' facts around for my liking.

we only required Police own site for two isolated incidents (not fighting)

Edited August 13, 2008 by Dipster

[barbienightmare]

Just a hunch but there's a few too many assumptions and not so many 'without a shadow of a doubt' facts around for my liking.

I don't suppose said police we're perhaps with dog handler/s or possibly brought their own dog handlers on site with them, and perhaps carried a taser gun and pepper spray by any chance?

Police ARE allowed to carry and use pepper spray and they ARE allowed to carry and use taser guns and they have their own dog units!

Can an official answer that, and not someone who was possibly still bleary eyed after a wk-end of festivalling that wk-end giving what they claim is the actual version of events?

I'm seeing a scenario. Yellow Hi-Vis coat maybe? Dark T-Shirt? (the back of which would have been covered by their body vest, covering any visible writing that would indentify them as either security OR police), Black Trousers?, Black Boots/Shoes?, Black Gloves?........

I'd possibly come to the conclusion that it must be security, especially after seeing them around the site all wk-end.

From what knowledge I have, the police are allowed to carry batons and fire arms aswell as the above mentioned. These guys are not. Also, guard dogs are widely used in the Police Force aswell as in Security and the Prison Service. Going by the thinking of some on here, why on earth would the prison service need dogs when all the cons are locked in a cell out of harms way. Where's the risk? What purpose are they going to serve? I bet the locals aren't too happy about there being dogs at the nick across the road from their homes now are they??

I am 1 of those previously mentioned who just reads this thread but hasn't commented, not because I like to 'read a good row', but simply because 1) I was not involved and 2) as eFestivals suggests, I don't feel they we're over the top and I have no complaint to make about any of the security issues this wk-end, so I have kept out of it. However, this topic is long past the stage of getting out of hand IMHO and appears to have digressed to nothing short of a witch hunt.

To Elfskin's mate who was 'eyeballing' the security guard with a big smile on his face, go try that in the clubs at your local town, then come back and tell us what kind of response he got. It just smacks of provocation. The wrong choice of body language entirely.

From what I saw of security over the week-end, they we're polite and civil. Some we're walking around the main arena and we're generally chilled. I did not see any of them carrying a taser and I did not see any of them with pepper spray.

I did see some wearing what looked like stab vests, and I did see some with cuffs, but in this day and age, in that job, wouldn't you?! Even some traffic wardens are known to wear a protective vest! So what exactly is the problem? And what's so bad about wearing black gloves too? (I think that was mentioned in the other thread?) when festivals are renowned for drugs and that MAY include coming into contact with dirty needles carrying HIV/Hepatitis and goodness knows what else as well as knives, glass and even beer cans can be ripped and flattened to make a razor sharp edge.

A company have been brought in to conduct searches and confiscate any items that may cause harm to others in the interests of EVERYONE's safety, and I am at a loss as to how ANYONE could have a problem with them using what ever protective gear they need in order to do that job.

I must point out that I didn't witness any drug misuse the whole week-end. Now, whether that was due to the type of festival/festival goer or, down to security doing a good job at keeping them out with their searches, who can say? Not for ANY of us to comment unless we know the facts.

What I do know is, I saw happy people at a happy festival. Children playing and looking generally like they we're enjoying themselves, with parents who seemed relaxed and happy knowing their kids could share the whole experience and be safe.

Using guard dogs as a deterent at festivals is nothing new whatsoever, I am quite amazed at the naivety of the people who think that they are. They we're using them at Leeds as far back as 2001. (Maybe earlier, I didn't go until then) I have also seen them at others over the years, inc more recently at Global Gathering.

I've had a minor gripe on another topic regarding the campsite, but will go on the record and say to people like Ffi, Flounder and the other organisers, that it's been a great festival. Spirits remained high despite the dreadful weather on saturday. Great music, great atmosphere.

There is much more positive feedback to come I'm sure.

So, WELL DONE EVERYONE, to the organisers, security and stewards for a great week-end. You all deserve a well earned rest after all the hard work, which IS very much appreciated.

Thank You

[barbienightmare]

I don't think you're reading the posts properly. The issue, specifically, of how people were dealt with at the gate.

Can you see the difference? Courtesy and politeness are really important at events with big crowds. To get your SIA licence (security qualification) you have to be trained in customer care. Do you see what happens when the rotten apples of the security world don't practice courtesy? It leaves people feeling intimidated and ill treated, which leads to complaint and unrest, which in turn will inflame a negative situation if one occurs.

I've tried to be courteous and polite to you, despite the fact I disagree with your argument. How would you feel if I came online and said you're a thickie who can't spell? You wouldn't like it at all. It would be unnecessary of me to say it and pointlessly rude. So I won't say that. What I will say is people have every right to feel upset and intimidated if that's the picture they are being shown.

Edited August 13, 2008 by barbienightmare

[Loodlini]

yes and Im giving my point about the how people were dealt with, and answering another comment back to me in this thread so whos not reading them properly?

can I see the difference? yes , can you though?

the example of how the security acted , what they say as you put is :

and you compare it to if you were to say to me

well the main difference there is you would be makeing a personal insult by name calling for a start and making a personal insult to my intellegence?

but the security senario you put isnt making any personal insults , or name calling , there just not smiling or saying please !according to the examples you give above,

like I said in earlier posts , if there was a specific complaint of rudeness , like a personal insult then I would more than likely be posting on here in agreement thats out of order ...... but there no mention of any thing specific so therefore I think if its a case of no smileing , gruff voiced and lack of p's and q's then I think theres not really much to complain about,

I dont need the security to know when to put a please and thankyou to have a good time at a festival. It wouldnt ruin it for me if they didnt .

and im sure theres a dig involved with the spelling there but no I dont think your rude , it made me grin cause I would atually agree , my spelling is shite .... yeah I am a thicko when it comes to it .... some may be offended but Im made from tougher stuff, than to be offended by someing as trivial as a comment on spelling and my braincell , theres far more important and serious things that go on in the world.

[elfskins back]

@ dipster

You said this;

"To Elfskin's mate who was 'eyeballing' the security guard with a big smile on his face, go try that in the clubs at your local town, then come back and tell us what kind of response he got. It just smacks of provocation. The wrong choice of body language entirely."

You have taken one sentence entirely out of context.

Have another go at reading what I actually wrote.

The only provocation and wrong choice of body language was coming from Security.

When was the last time you went to a nightclub, I reckon late 1980's. Doorstaff are now highly trained in de-escalation techniques, which do not include any behaviour likely to provoke or inflame the incident further ( like suddenly appearing in someones face screaming like a lunatic. )

Which is why the first thing the Security manager did was pull off the bloke and get him out of the tent, before calmly talking to my mate, who was just as calm and in control as he was. If we were so in the wrong and out of order then why did we leave that tent with an apology for what had happened.

Surely if we ( and women were involved in this ) were the rowdy, rough neck crowd we are being portrayed by certain people on this thread we would have all been in those handcuffs and off to the Police station.

Not leaving with an apology.

[William of Walworth]

Dipster you make some good and fair points, and it's always a good principle to seek clarification on peoples' accounts, but the one thing that seems clear and doesn't seem to have been disputed, is that it wasn't Police who had dogs late in the Ber Tent, but certain members of Security -- who, it is claimed, also had pepper spray and handcuffs.

Happy to be factually corectted on this, but the whole issue was it seems not whether Police had dogs, but whether Security should have had them,. and how they handled them.

No time for more.

[elfskins back]

Dipster you make some good and fair points, and it's always a good principle to seek clarification on peoples' accounts, but the one thing that seems clear and doesn't seem to have been disputed, is that it wasn't Police who had dogs late in the Ber Tent, but certain members of Security -- who, it is claimed, also had pepper spray and handcuffs.

Happy to be factually corectted on this, but the whole issue was it seems not whether Police had dogs, but whether Security should have had them,. and how they handled them.

No time for more.

Edited August 14, 2008 by elfskins back

[Cybertec]

Well i'll add my last two pennorth to this.....its very heartening to see the organisers of the festival taking the opportunity to come on so promptly and supply answers or at least promise answers as things progress....it is a credit to them!

This is far more than we could ever expect from 'most' festivals.

At this rate I might even try it again next year.....(big smillie face).

[elfskins back]

So in the programme it says bar closes at 3am - what time did this take place?

[barbienightmare]

to Elfskins:

branching away from the heated discussion here, I just been on flick r looking up Endorse it photos, I take it the Elfskins on flick r is yourself ? well you got some fantastic pics of weekend , nice one.

[elfskins back]

to Elfskins:

branching away from the heated discussion here, I just been on flick r looking up Endorse it photos, I take it the Elfskins on flick r is yourself ? well you got some fantastic pics of weekend , nice one.

Edited August 14, 2008 by elfskins back

[Dipster]

My weekend at Endorse it ended at 4am this morning in an incident provoked by on-site Security

[elfskins back]

Chill Dipster, typo error, replace " in " with " after ".

Our evening ended at 4 am back at the van crashed out after the incident. I am sure the time recorded in the Security incident book will tie in exactly with the times given here.

Other witnesses agree that the time of the incident ie. 3-05 am is accurate.

I am just not going to respond any more to amateur detectives who were not there and have nothing of value to add.

I suggest you watch some Cracker DVD's instead.

Christ, I thought this thread had turned a corner. We had pleasantness and photies before you came along bringing us down.

It is without question an incident occurred, it is without question that Security had no authority to use those dogs, it is being investigated, relevant governing bodies are being contacted and complaints procedures being instigated.

It is clear that EIID has nothing to do with what happened on Sunday night and are doing all they can to resolve this situation.

There is a huge ground swell of feeling amongst Festival goers in light of this incident about the role and powers and methods employed by Private Security firms. I have found out things about the industry during research on this case that chill me to the bone, loopholes that could let convicted criminals operate as Security operatives without training or CRB checks. This issue needs addressing, the Festival going public need to know that they and their children are safe at these events.

If I was you I would just let it lie until the investigation is over. ( less risk of looking stupid then )

Let the relevant bodies investigate this and let's get back to the fact that we all had a good time.

This will cheer you up !!!

I couldn't put it better myself.

Edited August 15, 2008 by elfskins back

[tartanterra]

Chill Dipster, typo error, replace " in " with " after ".

Our evening ended at 4 am back at the van crashed out after the incident. I am sure the time recorded in the Security incident book will tie in exactly with the times given here.

Other witnesses agree that the time of the incident ie. 3-05 am is accurate.

I am just not going to respond any more to amateur detectives who were not there and have nothing of value to add.

I suggest you watch some Cracker DVD's instead.

Christ, I thought this thread had turned a corner. We had pleasantness and photies before you came along bringing us down.

It is without question an incident occurred, it is without question that Security had no authority to use those dogs, it is being investigated, relevant governing bodies are being contacted and complaints procedures being instigated.

It is clear that EIID has nothing to do with what happened on Sunday night and are doing all they can to resolve this situation.

good response

I didn't see anyone tasared or handcuffed.

About time there was some ADULT behavior in this thread.

Cheers EIID, me and my kids had a brilliant time, if people aren't happy then go to Glasto etc.

There is a huge ground swell of feeling amongst Festival goers in light of this incident about the role and powers and methods employed by Private Security firms. I have found out things about the industry during research on this case that chill me to the bone, loopholes that could let convicted criminals operate as Security operatives without training or CRB checks. This issue needs addressing, the Festival going public need to know that they and their children are safe at these events.

If I was you I would just let it lie until the investigation is over. ( less risk of looking stupid then )

Let the relevant bodies investigate this and let's get back to the fact that we all had a good time.

This will cheer you up !!!

I couldn't put it better myself.

[elfskins back]

Could be the official EIID chant for next year.

Beats.......... " Bollox " or " I'm Spartacus ".

" WHO LET THE DOGS OUT !!! "

Edited August 15, 2008 by elfskins back

[eFestivals]

OK perhaps you may provide some info? - are PRIVATE security firms allowed to use handcuffs? and Pepper spray?

and . . it is very rare one sees a police officer walking around in a stab vest - on a day to day basis- I think subtle is the word here. I know many a security firm and they belive that they are a service and make all attempts to reduce tensions by 'the subtle approach' a smile here and there - not by abusive and obnoxious actions.

I appreciate your point 'go about their job' but - - - what you are impying is that Endorset employed this firm to be rude and obnoxious to festival goers- flounder is this the case.!! Not being funny but at the G8 the security on one of the sites were most certainly not attired like ESP and they probably really had a case for extra padding.

One might presume that ESP were a little nervous and inexperinced and this was why they felt the need to act insuch a way. For the past two years security seemed to think Endoret very safe-

Are you saying Endorset is not safe any more?

I am sure the punters would like to know especially the ones with children.

Sorry clarity is necessary here- and I am just providing my observations!

my comment was only about stab protection vests, nothing else.

And while you say it's rare to see a copper wearing one, that's complpetely wrong. It was certainly the case in Devon & Cornwall Constabulary around 5 years back that these vests were compulsory for all uniformed officers (or at least that's what a copper told me when I asked why he was wearing it).

All I was commenting on "about their job" was that that they're as entitled to go about their job safely, the same as anyone else. A builder wears steel-toecapped boots for protection, and a security guy wearing a protection vest is no different; after all, they're the people whose job it is to face up to someone with a knife if there's someone with a knife - I'd certainly rather do that wearing a vest, and I'm sure you would too.

My own experience with security at EIID this year was only good, and that was the experience of many others too, as posts on these forums show. While you might have had a bad experience, that was no everyone's, or even typical I would think (if it was typical, I'm sure there'd be many more posts about it - complainants shout loudly, those who have no issue tend to be silent).