Jump to content

Cricket


greeneyes1980
 Share

Recommended Posts

Jonny is so frustrating. He either looks like a world beater, or somebody who has never picked up a bat before. That is evident in how he’s much he’s been in and out of the side over his career, but still infuriating - especially for himself I imagine. One thing for sure with him is that he is consistently inconsistent. 

Edited by st dan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, st dan said:

Jonny is so frustrating. He either looks like a world beater, or somebody who has never picked up a bat before. That is evident in how he’s much he’s been in and out of the side over his career, but still infuriating - especially for himself I imagine. One thing for sure with him is that he is consistently inconsistent. 

He gets bowled more than any other batsman in test cricket. He's been very consistent at that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think England did a whole lot wrong, aside from the 1st innings collapse and Bairstow being Bairstow.

They had reason to think the pink ball would swing, and if it had moved it's hard to argue that Bess is a better bowler than any of the ones selected. It turned out to be a mistake, but they still bowled India out for under 150. Root's captaincy, particularly of spin, has looked pretty good this winter, and my only major selection issue criticism so far is that Bairstow isn't a test 3. 

Ultimately, 2 batsmen made runs this test, Sharma and Crawley. Root, Pujara, and Kohli, 3 of the best players in the modern game, particularly against spin, didn't get a 30 between them.

I wouldn't be able to watch from now until Sunday, so I'm not personally gutted about it ending early and having all the excitement crammed into 5 sessions, but that pitch is a problem. The one in the 2nd test was spin-friendly but India could play on it, they put several partnerships together.

India are just a better team than England, Leach is looking good, but they have 3 spinners that would walk into the England team (inc. the injured Jadeja), and at least 3 batsmen. Bumrah and Sharma would certainly be in contention even if they've had minimal impact these last 2 matches.


I'd have taken 3-1 at the start. I want to see some fight with the bat next test, a score of 300+, and hopefully a better contest. I suspect it'll rag, and the question to me isn't whether to recall Bess, it's whether to also add in Virdi/Parkinson/Crane as well. Broad and Stokes have been ineffectual (not their fault), so it's whether exposing a young spinner for one test is a good idea for development and hope for the next trip here. I don't know the answer, just pondering a possibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

India are just a better team 

Hmm....

I probably agree if you mean man for man across all conditions across the world.
 

I’m far from convinced if you just mean in India and in England. 

The last 3 times India toured England the results have been 4-0, 3-1, and 4-1. 
 

England’s record in India is poor but not quite as poor as India’s in England. They usually struggle against the moving ball and the English climate more than we do on roads or bunsen’s in the Indian climate. 
 

If we to play an imaginary series taking on India in Kingston, Dunedin, Adelaide, and Lahore, I’ve no doubt India would come out on top. 
 

Back to the current series I fully expect Wood to play in the last test. Then Bess should play, but that will likely depend on his confidence rather than his ability. So that’s two of Broad/Anderson/Archer out. 
 

It wouldn’t surprise me if all three go if they feel they want to get a further look at Stone, or they wish to correct the imbalance of the last test by playing Woakes and shortening the tail. 
 

I’d bring back Burns and play Crawley at 3 but Bairstow will likely get another chance. 

Edited by TheGayTent
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Hmm....

I probably agree if you mean man for man across all conditions across the world.
 

I’m far from convinced if you just mean in India and in England. 

The last 3 times India toured England the results have been 4-0, 3-1, and 4-1. 
 

England’s record in India is poor but not quite as poor as India’s in England. They usually struggle against the moving ball and the English climate more than we do on roads or bunsen’s in the Indian climate. 
 

If we to play an imaginary series taking on India in Kingston, Dunedin, Adelaide, and Lahore, I’ve no doubt India would come out on top. 
 

Back to the current series I fully expect Wood to play in the last test. Then Bess should play, but that will likely depend on his confidence rather than his ability. So that’s two of Broad/Anderson/Archer out. 
 

It wouldn’t surprise me if all three go if they feel they want to get a further look at Stone, or they wish to correct the imbalance of the last test by playing Woakes and shortening the tail. 
 

I’d bring back Burns and play Crawley at 3 but Bairstow will likely get another chance. 

I meant across the world. If you go England + India I agree its closer. 

I don't disagree with your assessment of the team for the next test? I'd prefer Burns (or Lawrence and promote Pope) over Bairstow, but it won't happen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

Great stat from Andy Zaltzman:


In Ben Stokes' last 20 Tests he averages 50 with bat, has taken 36 wickets at an average of 28 and has 29 catches.

With a stomach bug this test as well. He's seriously brilliant.

Frustrating from an England POV, but I genuinely love Pant. Calculated and well-timed aggression, IMO the only middle order player to rival Stokes in the world for ability to pace an innings and take the attack to bowlers at the right time.

Feel for Bess, it's poor management to have let slip that Moeen was asked to stay, and he's clearly struggling. I don't think he actually bowled any worse than he did in the first test in Sri Lanka, but his luck has turned at the time he's under more pressure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bess just isn't good enough, not yet, at Test level. He's definitely someone who I feel would benefit from a full season of Championship cricket and getting to know his own game better. Much prefer Leach but I feel England are wary that leaves them somewhat exposed in terms of lower order batting. Moeen is just an enigma, his stats warrant him being an automatic pick in England but he's consistently failed overseas and would not want him as a front line spinner in Australia. Root offering a part time off spin option dovetails with Leach too in offering something different.

Feel that Bess needs to go back to county cricket too and have a season batting at 3. If he's being groomed for that role in the future, which you'd hope to be the case, he needs exposure at the top of the order at first class level. Batting 6 for Surrey and playing half your games on the best batting track in the country is great for your average, but not necessarily the best experience to kick on from. Lawrence has an exceptional tour of Australia under his belt already, and additionally has batted at 4 for Essex playing half his games at Chelmsford. I'd stick with him at 5/6 for now, as it stands I think he's in a better position to move up to the number 3 spot than Pope, should that gap need to be plugged. Outside of Stokes/Root/Buttler he's had by far the best winter out of the prospective batsmen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

Bess just isn't good enough, not yet, at Test level. He's definitely someone who I feel would benefit from a full season of Championship cricket and getting to know his own game better. Much prefer Leach but I feel England are wary that leaves them somewhat exposed in terms of lower order batting. Moeen is just an enigma, his stats warrant him being an automatic pick in England but he's consistently failed overseas and would not want him as a front line spinner in Australia. Root offering a part time off spin option dovetails with Leach too in offering something different.

Feel that Bess needs to go back to county cricket too and have a season batting at 3. If he's being groomed for that role in the future, which you'd hope to be the case, he needs exposure at the top of the order at first class level. Batting 6 for Surrey and playing half your games on the best batting track in the country is great for your average, but not necessarily the best experience to kick on from. Lawrence has an exceptional tour of Australia under his belt already, and additionally has batted at 4 for Essex playing half his games at Chelmsford. I'd stick with him at 5/6 for now, as it stands I think he's in a better position to move up to the number 3 spot than Pope, should that gap need to be plugged. Outside of Stokes/Root/Buttler he's had by far the best winter out of the prospective batsmen. 

So Bess won us a game in South Africa, his strength is that he can spin the ball on barely turning pitches, hence his much better record in the 1st innings, and against teams that aren't India. I think having had a mare here, he does now need to go back and have a season or two of first class cricket, but England should keep in touch with him, and offer him spin coaching themselves on top of whatever he gets at county level.

Moeen is a match-winner, with bat and ball. I said a couple of weeks ago that in some games in England, I would pick him over Leach for the batting contribution and wicket-taking threat, but if you think you need an end held up, Leach is the better option. Leach however, should be a guaranteed pick for the Ashes, and even if not picked this summer, should be told that, and that it's nothing to do with his bowling.

Lawrence is in better form than Pope, Pope has looked better everywhere except India (and Sri Lanka where he didn't play). I still think, despite his struggles vs left arm spin, that Sibley has done the right things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

So Bess won us a game in South Africa, his strength is that he can spin the ball on barely turning pitches, hence his much better record in the 1st innings, and against teams that aren't India. I think having had a mare here, he does now need to go back and have a season or two of first class cricket, but England should keep in touch with him, and offer him spin coaching themselves on top of whatever he gets at county level.

Moeen is a match-winner, with bat and ball. I said a couple of weeks ago that in some games in England, I would pick him over Leach for the batting contribution and wicket-taking threat, but if you think you need an end held up, Leach is the better option. Leach however, should be a guaranteed pick for the Ashes, and even if not picked this summer, should be told that, and that it's nothing to do with his bowling.

Lawrence is in better form than Pope, Pope has looked better everywhere except India (and Sri Lanka where he didn't play). I still think, despite his struggles vs left arm spin, that Sibley has done the right things.

Oh for sure Bess is a prospect for England, but just needs a season or two to get to know his own game. Much more difficult to come in young as a spinner than a raw, tearaway quick.

And that's the quandary in a nutshell with Moeen....can you play him just in England as a horses for courses selection, without harming Leach as the primary, number one spinner? 

I'm warming to Sibley but still think the jury is out on both him and Burns for now. New Zealand and India are going to be tough prospects for opening batsmen in the summer. Crawley clearly has the potential and class to kick on but then again we all thought this of James Vince too. If they're ideally having Crawley at three, then if one/both of Sibley and Burns fail, who is next off the rank as an opener? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, kingbadger said:

Oh for sure Bess is a prospect for England, but just needs a season or two to get to know his own game. Much more difficult to come in young as a spinner than a raw, tearaway quick.

And that's the quandary in a nutshell with Moeen....can you play him just in England as a horses for courses selection, without harming Leach as the primary, number one spinner? 

I'm warming to Sibley but still think the jury is out on both him and Burns for now. New Zealand and India are going to be tough prospects for opening batsmen in the summer. Crawley clearly has the potential and class to kick on but then again we all thought this of James Vince too. If they're ideally having Crawley at three, then if one/both of Sibley and Burns fail, who is next off the rank as an opener? 

Bess knows his game. He knows his variations, he knows how to spin the ball. What he needs is to get into a rhythm of delivering the same length (which isn't part of his variations). If you look at how he got Kohli out, he was spinning it a good amount and landing it consistently for 3 balls before, then the ball itself was intentionally wider, but at the same length. The biggest issue for a spinner, is sometimes you intentionally have to pull it slightly back and forward according to when the batsman is going at you, and the moment Bess has to do that, he loses control of his length altogether, and full tosses come in. Time in county cricket is probably the best solution for this, but the description of "trust" is a simplistic explanation of this problem.

What I hope doesn't happen, is that he's asked to work on consistency and leaking fewer runs, and then loses what made him a threat while doing so. You mention a raw quick, but that's what happened to Finn over his 5ish years in and out of the team in his early 20s.

I have no idea, and I suspect that you need to be one of Leach and/or Moeen's coaches/captains/friends to be able to make the judgement of how you make them both feel valued and used in the right way while rotating them. 


I'm a huge fan of Sibley, I think he's everything we've been wanting from an opening batsman for years. Sibley/Burns/Denly as a top 3 laying a platform showed that even without huge scores that seeing off the new ball gives your middle order much more of a chance to make big runs. 

Crawley has not just a test hundred, but a daddy one. Vince never made one, kept nicking off to the slips after getting himself set and spreading the field, and averages somewhere in the mid-20s. I was barely more convinced by Vince than I was by Westley, I've got a lot more faith in Crawley and Pope. Crawley has a problem against left-arm spin, particularly the straighter ball after the spinning one, but KP had that problem until the last 3 years of his career. If he can solve that weakness, I think there might be a great player there, if not, he could still score a lot of runs.

IMO, there are 4 players that could open for England over the next 3 years:

Sibley
Crawley - with moving Pope/Lawrence up to 3
Burns - but possibly more as a stopgap than a long-term option
Hameed - scored at a decent average (38) in the BWT following his move to Notts, and will hopefully kick on again and start looking like the player he did in 2016

Someone else might emerge, and I'm a little bit of the opinion that we should stick with Burns until there's an exciting alternative, instead of just changing for change's sake, but moving a few other players up might end up as a better option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

What in hell is Darren Stevens on? This form is ridiculous! 

In the missus’ bad books - first game of the season today - odd having to apply for a ticket in the ballot as member. 
 

As superb as god is - check out Labuschagne’s dismissal (😲) - not that I’m complaining ! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yesterday was something else. Had the stream on my laptop while we watched a documentary and Mrs P (an Australian) laughed at the initial Kent collapse. As has happened many times. She went to bed around lunch, when Dazza was on 50. Oh how she missed out.

My favourite bit was Marnus' first ball. I love Marnus, and that leg break full toss wide no ball was amazing. Steven's interview with BBC Kent after was really lovely. Really annoying that he can be so amazing, yet Kent are still bottom of their group. Kent are going to be in real trouble when he does finally retire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have tickets for the Edgbaston test against NZ. Still waiting to find out whether I’ll be able to go or not, as the capacity is being limited due to COVID. 

Previously been informed I’ll get a final decision today, so I’m nervously refreshing my email account awaiting the news...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...