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poppydom1964

Mr C telling a few porkies ??

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It certainly wasn't a pledge but it was implied. I guess the Tories are attempting to portray Corbyn as a normal lying politician in the hope of creating disillusion among the young people who voted for him.

He probably is.

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18 hours ago, eFestivals said:

hey, let's have some censorship in favour of Corbyn, too. :lol:

It's no more or less off topic than plenty of the topics that people condemning this topic have creamed themselves about posting in.

And people say it's the tories who are self-centred? :P

I hope someone pisses in that mug

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2 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

It certainly wasn't a pledge but it was implied.

And Labour have u-turned on what was implied by voting against the Tory plans to scrap all student debt! Or not.

I can see what the Tories are trying to do it's just bizarre and seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me. Between this and Theresa May's request for policy ideas I don't think I've ever before seen an opposition parties manifesto remain quite so relevant six weeks after the election. By this point the opposition are normally voting to block policies that were in their own manifesto on principle and it's business as usual.

It does very much feel like the Tories are still fighting an election campaign, which makes me think another election will happen sooner rather than later.

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4 hours ago, DeanoL said:

It does very much feel like the Tories are still fighting an election campaign, which makes me think another election will happen sooner rather than later.

I don't think so. They'll need to get themselves a new leader first and I can't see that happening until after Brexit unless May screws up even more. Mind you, if the Brexit talks end in us walking away, I think she'd resign which would bring the whole process forward.

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8 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

It certainly wasn't a pledge but it was implied. I guess the Tories are attempting to portray Corbyn as a normal lying politician in the hope of creating disillusion among the young people who voted for him.

He probably is.

How do you read this and interpret it as him saying he's going to wipe out all existing debt? Here is the actual interview:

There is a block of those who currently have a massive debt, and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden.

I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage – I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all of this. But I’m very well aware of that problem.

And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.

 

The tories level of self delusion on this one has been spectacular on so many levels. From blatantly lying about it being pledge WHICH THEY DIDN'T EVEN BELIEVE THAT IT WAS AT THE TIME (if it were how come the tories never mentioned the costing of such a pledge at the election? Nor did any of the media claiming it was a pledge), to the fact that Labour isn't even in government so how do they even break a pledge?! 

Edited by Mr.Tease

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4 hours ago, Mr.Tease said:

How do you read this and interpret it as him saying he's going to wipe out all existing debt? Here is the actual interview:

There is a block of those who currently have a massive debt, and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden.

I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage – I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all of this. But I’m very well aware of that problem.

And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.

 

The tories level of self delusion on this one has been spectacular on so many levels. From blatantly lying about it being pledge WHICH THEY DIDN'T EVEN BELIEVE THAT IT WAS AT THE TIME (if it were how come the tories never mentioned the costing of such a pledge at the election? Nor did any of the media claiming it was a pledge), to the fact that Labour isn't even in government so how do they even break a pledge?! 

He said he would deal with excessive debt burden. That's not a pledge and wasn't in the manifesto but I think most people would assume that meant reducing it or writing it off. If he doesn't want this type of media attention, maybe he should shut up and stick to making statements he can keep.

Are you really surprised the Tory media are laying into him? Really?

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2 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

He said he would deal with excessive debt burden. That's not a pledge and wasn't in the manifesto but I think most people would assume that meant reducing it or writing it off. If he doesn't want this type of media attention, maybe he should shut up and stick to making statements he can keep.

He's not broken it though. Any statement made was contingent on there being a Labour government, and there isn't one. The next manifesto will come before the next election and won't include everything in the previous one anyway.

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I'm not sure what he can do to stop people making assumptions about things he never said really.  I'm not sure he is the person at fault for those assumptions.

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1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

He's not broken it though. Any statement made was contingent on there being a Labour government, and there isn't one. The next manifesto will come before the next election and won't include everything in the previous one anyway.

He made the statement and then retracted it once he realised how much it would cost which was pretty foolish. Labour made great play of their 'fully costed manifesto' during the election campaign (even though it wasn't really examined too deeply) and to make this statement and then pedal backwards like he did did the party's credibility on financial management no good at all. 

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20 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

He made the statement

What statement. That he'd look into it?

Yes, that he did say. He didn't pledge anything. What the heck is with people that they keep pretending he did pledge it - do you really think it comes across well that you think everyone is stupid enough to not understand the difference between those two things? I refuse to believe you're stupid enough to not know the difference, so what are you trying?

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10 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

What statement. That he'd look into it?

Yes, that he did say. He didn't pledge anything. What the heck is with people that they keep pretending he did pledge it - do you really think it comes across well that you think everyone is stupid enough to not understand the difference between those two things? I refuse to believe you're stupid enough to not know the difference, so what are you trying?

He said he'd sort it. I know that wasn't a pledge but plenty of people think it was.

Where have you read me say it was a pledge?

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My impression has always been that wiping student existing student debt was a long term goal of Corbyn and the Labour party but never an immediate pledge. I think he was pretty clear on that, am I wrong?

(this thread is arse, btw)

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15 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

He said he'd sort it. I know that wasn't a pledge but plenty of people think it was.

Where have you read me say it was a pledge?

Where are these "plenty of people" - literally the only people I hear this from are tory fans all gleeful that they think they've got something to bash other people with and to sneer at "young people"

The HUGE swell in the Labour vote was from the middle aged not students. Deal with it - stop being all snide that it was just gullible stupid young people who'll believe anything - it's repellent. 

Edited by frostypaw

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23 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Where are these "plenty of people" - literally the only people I hear this from are tory fans all gleeful that they think they've got something to bash other people with and to sneer at "young people"

The HUGE swell in the Labour vote was from the middle aged not students. Deal with it - stop being all snide that it was just gullible stupid young people who'll believe anything - it's repellent. 

I take it from that little rant that you admit I didn't say it was a pledge but aren't big enough to admit it. That's your problem not mine.

I just think Corbyn did something that very few politicians have been able to do - engage with the young. With that comes a responsibility not to let them down by behaving like any other politician. Saying what he said did give hope to people saddled with debt. Of course it was blatant electioneering designed to help him win the election but backtrack as he did wasn't good for his credibility and risked disillusioning those that helped get Labour within an inch of Government. 

Edited by Ommadawn

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38 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

I take it from that little rant that you admit I didn't say it was a pledge but aren't big enough to admit it. That's your problem not mine.

I just think Corbyn did something that very few politicians have been able to do - engage with the young. With that comes a responsibility not to let them down by behaving like any other politician. Saying what he said did give hope to people saddled with debt. Of course it was blatant electioneering designed to help him win the election but backtrack as he did wasn't good for his credibility and risked disillusioning those that helped get Labour within an inch of Government. 

Not wanting to spoil your feelings of superiority but I've double checked and I've not said you said it was a pledge anywhere. I said it was insulting to people that you think they're stupid enough to think that he pledged anything. I didn't seriously think you were demanding I posted evidence of that........ small victories must count for you I guess even over things people didn't say.

AGAIN the big rise in Labour vote was from the middle aged. The rest is some bullshit you've made up and decided is now his burden - a fairly standard demand of holier than thou perfection so it's easier to sling dirt later. These comments weren't even from before the election.... this is such sour grapes. You can't just keep making stuff up then telling people how they should feel about it - it's so transparent

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