Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

[KingPin]

9 minutes ago, MadScientist said:

Seriously? It isn't down to Tory policy on health and safety that Grenfell happened? It isn't down to Boris selling social housing off to private firms who had interests in Gentrifying London? It isn't down to the Tory council who KNEW that building was unsafe, who SIGNED OFF on the cheap cladding that they KNEW wasn't fireproof? It isn't down to Tories REFUSING to sign off on legislation LAST YEAR to make it a legal requirement that all rental housing must be suitable for habitation (i.e. safe, clean, spacious)? 

Give your head a wobble and look at the facts mate instead of living in the tory bubble of "oh what an awful tragedy I have no idea how this happened". People KNOW why it happened, the residents of that building even predicted what would happen (does that not make you fucking angry by the way? They predicted their own deaths and were ignored). Tories can stick their head in the sand but the truth about their policies is coming out

Give your head a wobble and stop trying to score political points from a tragedy that, like I said, had pretty much everybody involved in. It wasn't just the Tories or Labour or the company who made the cladding or a variety of other people and corporations fault. It's a combination of little things from each factor that lead to the tragedy.

Edited July 14, 2017 by KingPin

[MadScientist]

7 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Give your head a wobble and stop trying to score political points from a tragedy that, like I said, had pretty much everybody involved in. It wasn't just the Tories or Labour or the company who made the cladding or a variety of other people and corporations fault. It's a combination of little things from each factor that lead to the tragedy.

Do me a favour mate and google Nicholas Paget-Brown and tell me his position on the council when they did up the building 

Edited July 14, 2017 by MadScientist

[nban2010]

This thread is everything that is wrong with modern day politics.

What does a 'Tory' even mean?!

In the past 3 elections I voted for Clegg, Cameron and now Corbyn. In my locals I vite Green ebcause of the amazing work our local representative does.

Does me voting Blue in 2015 make me a Tory? Does that suddenly null and void the aspirations I had for a Corbyn-led government last month? Does it mean that I'm in some way, opposition to all my lefty friends, who all of us go to Glasto each year?

Everyone is welcome, anywhere, regardless of their political decisions.

[jonodillieono]

4 minutes ago, nban2010 said:

This thread is everything that is wrong with modern day politics.

What does a 'Tory' even mean?!

In the past 3 elections I voted for Clegg, Cameron and now Corbyn. In my locals I vite Green ebcause of the amazing work our local representative does.

Does me voting Blue in 2015 make me a Tory? Does that suddenly null and void the aspirations I had for a Corbyn-led government last month? Does it mean that I'm in some way, opposition to all my lefty friends, who all of us go to Glasto each year?

Everyone is welcome, anywhere, regardless of their political decisions.

Yes it does. It makes you a filthy tory c**t who caused this mess in the first place by helping give them a majority.

[KingPin]

23 minutes ago, MadScientist said:

Do me a favour mate and google Nicholas Paget-Brown and tell me his position on the council when they did up the building 

It's not Corbyn's fault that a government 10 years ago didn't do the right thing or earlier than that made the problem worse. It's not May's fault that the same happened under Cameron and that this issue, which lets be honest was anything but top of the list a day before the fire, was not resolved under her government, just like it wasn't 100% Paget-Brown's fault for what's happened. It's a series of events that led to this tragedy and as such means many many people have played a part in this. Things like this happen because of inertia and bureaucratic neglect not deliberate malfeasance, nobody was trying to set the place on fire.

[The Placid Casual]

On 7/7/2017 at 4:28 PM, Apone said:

Sensible replies please

That's a very Tory thing to say.

[The Placid Casual]

On 7/7/2017 at 6:12 PM, Zac Quinn said:

Corbyn's speech before RTJ was totally fair compared to bacon sandwich gate etc.

Jesus, have you still not got over Miliband?

[Hugh Jass]

42 minutes ago, nban2010 said:

 

In the past 3 elections I voted for Clegg, Cameron and now Corbyn.

So you like people whose names begin with C?

[stuartbert two hats]

Just now, Hugh Jass said:

So you like people whose names begin with C?

Hard to see any other common factor.

[Spindles]

Another factor in the grenfell tragedy was that the gas inlet pipes to flats were not secured.  This occurred as the part of the national grid that was responsible was sold off (quietly and by THIS government) to a Qatari company who then did not perform the essential works.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/27/grenfell-tower-gas-pipes-left-exposed-despite-fire-safety-experts-orders

To say that this tragedy was not the result of political policy and ideology is to deny the truth.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, slash's hat said:

I think tuition fees are probably as fair as you can get, maybe the price is arguable. You only pay back once earning over a certain amount. Talking to a friend who went to uni in the 90's she said it was ridiculous how many didn't show up or put effort in - if you're paying for it you're more likely to work at it ( figures may of course prove me wrong). 

To a degree I think you're right. The payback terms on loans at the moment are okay. The problem is that they're not guaranteed, and it creates further inequality between the generations. For all but the highest earners (and those with rich parents who can pay them off) the current loans are a de-facto graduate tax: 9% of your income over 20k until they're written off after 30 years.

Making it an actual graduate tax seems a no-brainer (those guys earning 60k+ who actually get the point of paying off the loan are really going to get arsey and upset and leave the country if they're asked to keep paying the 9%?) And of course if you did that, the number could be a lot lower than 9%.

If you went a bit further, and extended it to everyone who had had a uni education at any point it could probably be 1%.

Quote

How many parents on here don't want to secure a future for our children through inheritance. How many people on here would happily pass up inheritance and write a cheque to the government. Be honest.

I'd happily do it if that was the rule for everyone. The problem with just doing it unilaterally is that it's not a level playing field. I can only afford a house deposit right now with help from my parents, but house prices are so high because people like me are buying them with help from their parents....

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, KingPin said:

Give your head a wobble and stop trying to score political points from a tragedy that, like I said, had pretty much everybody involved in. It wasn't just the Tories or Labour or the company who made the cladding or a variety of other people and corporations fault. It's a combination of little things from each factor that lead to the tragedy.

To an extent this is true. We could pick over Grenfell for years trying to lay blame but ultimately it doesn't matter. The next tragedy won't be Grenfell, it'll be something else. Something we don't see coming. The important question should be who will prevent that next tragedy. Except because we don't know what it will be, it means we have to try *everywhere*. One party is suggesting increasing funding to the services and increasing regulation on private companies. One party is suggesting decreasing funding to services and decreasing regulation on private companies. One way of doing things makes the "next Grenfell" a hell of a lot less likely.

[shuttlep]

I was young and immature once, and when Blair was in charge of new labour (to me they were just the conservatives by another name) i Voted Tory. I was young and Naive.

 

now I am older and I see in Lefty Labour a change , Corbyn is someone who wants to do good for the little man. (most people in this country are the little man. What the Tories have done ever so well is make people think they are middle class when they are working class. People don;t want to think of themselves as working class. they see it as a tag for the poor. realistically most of us are working clas, and at the moment no one is looking out for us.  I think the tide is changing and people are realising what is going on, 

 

are Tories welcome, I was when i came , i never even realised the festival was lefty. 

[SteveTLizard]

The ethos of Glastonbury festival, as far as I can tell, is that we're all in it together. You're never far from a friend, even if you don't know them.  You're part of a society for the duration of the festival, where we all participate and contribute for the happiness, fun and general well being of everyone else.

These values are more aligned with socialist principles, ergo the festival has a socialist leaning.  If conservative principles were prevalent then everyone would judge it there right to have more fun than anyone else, and at the expense of everyone else's fun.

If you feel uncomfortable because of your political views maybe you need to focus on those views rather than other factors.

[Lad]

Glastonbury is apparently now  full of pitiful ,entiled middle class gawps. All trying to outdo each other in the right on stakes.As if anyone takes any notice and is put off by these clowns.

There was a decent investigation on the numbers been bandied about by newsnight a few nights ago.You know investigative journalists trying to get at the truth.Obviously Lily Allen on here (as someone called her)knows better.Imagine using people killed in awful tradgedy to score shitty political points.

[frostypaw]

1 hour ago, Spindles said:

To say that this tragedy was not the result of political policy and ideology is to deny the truth.

Amen to that.

The company chosen put in a big several million lower than the next competitor - it was still sent back demanding more savings and that's how the cheaper insulation got put in.
Sure with just Grenfell that could be claimed to be an accident or even made out to be one person's fault but they've now tested over 200 blocks with similar cladding and 200 of them have failed.

That's not one person or one little chain of accidents or freak chances, and it needs to be recognised.

[The Placid Casual]

2 hours ago, jonodillieono said:

Yes it does. It makes you a filthy tory c**t who caused this mess in the first place by helping give them a majority.

Some people (probably Tories) have zero sense of humour do they?

[jonodillieono]

1 hour ago, shuttlep said:

I was young and immature once, and when Blair was in charge of new labour (to me they were just the conservatives by another name) i Voted Tory. I was young and Naive.

 

now I am older and I see in Lefty Labour a change , Corbyn is someone who wants to do good for the little man. (most people in this country are the little man. What the Tories have done ever so well is make people think they are middle class when they are working class. People don;t want to think of themselves as working class. they see it as a tag for the poor. realistically most of us are working clas, and at the moment no one is looking out for us.  I think the tide is changing and people are realising what is going on, 

 

are Tories welcome, I was when i came , i never even realised the festival was lefty. 

Disagree with this, I come from an actual working class area and whilst at University I noticed it was full of people claiming to be working class.

'Oh Daddy bought me a house to live in for the 3 years I'm in Manchester. No I'm not middle class, I'm working class'.

Not everyone was to this extreme but I don't think I met a single 'middle class' person. Tons of people who went to private school and had a brand new car bought for them for their 17th birthday etc. Everyone likes to think they're working class, at my age anyway

[babyblade41]

I'm not sure what are the necessary requirements for class , is there a sliding scale ?

My Dad was from a military background , he did really well after and made the best of what skills he did have ..failed his 11 plus but that didn't hold him back. 

Not all wealthy people vote tory and everyone else vote Labour or am I totally wrong ? 

 

The 2 main parties seem to focus more  on economics which must take priority but what about environmental issues that the Green Party covers and those voters are just as passionate , what so called class do they fall into ? 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

48 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

I'm not sure what are the necessary requirements for class , is there a sliding scale ?

My Dad was from a military background , he did really well after and made the best of what skills he did have ..failed his 11 plus but that didn't hold him back. 

Not all wealthy people vote tory and everyone else vote Labour or am I totally wrong ? 

 

The 2 main parties seem to focus more  on economics which must take priority but what about environmental issues that the Green Party covers and those voters are just as passionate , what so called class do they fall into ? 

Voting based on environmental policies is one of the biggest indicators of middle-class privilege there is. Obviously there are anomalies but not many.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

2 hours ago, SteveTLizard said:

 

 If conservative principles were prevalent then everyone would judge it there right to have more fun than anyone else, and at the expense of everyone else's fun.

Exactly, the Pyramid field is crawling with Torys. 

[babyblade41]

4 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Voting based on environmental policies is one of the biggest indicators of middle-class privilege there is. Obviously there are anomalies but not many.

That does surprise me and something I never even thought of ... 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

4 hours ago, nban2010 said:

This thread is everything that is wrong with modern day politics.

What does a 'Tory' even mean?!

In the past 3 elections I voted for Clegg, Cameron and now Corbyn. In my locals I vite Green ebcause of the amazing work our local representative does.

Does me voting Blue in 2015 make me a Tory? Does that suddenly null and void the aspirations I had for a Corbyn-led government last month? Does it mean that I'm in some way, opposition to all my lefty friends, who all of us go to Glasto each year?

Everyone is welcome, anywhere, regardless of their political decisions.

Obviously you're flexible and open-minded.. the issue is the attendance of the kind of people who have nightly wet dreams over the removal of workers rights etc, we have to suffer for the whims of those kind of people for 360 days a year so it's a horrid thought that we might miss out on G tickets for them to have a jolly old time there too

[the wonderwhy]

6 hours ago, slash's hat said:

I think people claiming that university places or courses be limited are forgetting that further education is an attractive option because of the lack of jobs for the youth market.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/teenagers-not-in-work-school-significant-increase-15-per-cent-rise-unemployment-youth-a7755321.html

I think tuition fees are probably as fair as you can get, maybe the price is arguable. You only pay back once earning over a certain amount. Talking to a friend who went to uni in the 90's she said it was ridiculous how many didn't show up or put effort in - if you're paying for it you're more likely to work at it ( figures may of course prove me wrong). 

Basing entrance for limited spaces on applications can only go back to excluding those with a less privileged background. Two people with the same results on paper but one has had the privilege of more life experiences and gets in based on that surely takes us backwards. 

The problem tuition fees have created now is the complete culture change in approach to higher education. Now that a degree has become a commodity you get all this bullshit like student satisfaction surveys, billion pound campus vanity projects, University's having 'brands' and PR departments- they're basically supermarkets now. There's now an over-the-top, intense focus on getting a certain grade so you can get a certain (often poorly paid) internship at the end of the three years. It actually means students still don't turn up for seminars & stuff- there's not really any need so long as you painstakingly follow the marking criteria for you essays at the end of each term. It means most creativity has died as students focus on what they're told to do, rather than taking risks and pushing boundaries. It means academics are just glorified shop assistants. All of this stuff completely misses what Uni is about. 

Going to Uni absolutely should not just be about adding another section to your CV. It's about studying the subject you're passionate about, in depth, for three (or more) years. In the long term having people do that actually brings about a lot more benefits to society than just churning out a bunch of boring business studies graduates. 

Now that the cap has been lifted on both fees and places, each student through the doors is another £9,000+ in the coffers for the Uni. So you've got this ridiculous situation where too many people are going to Uni (many of whom clearly would be better off doing an apprenticeship or something), hardly anybody specialising or differentiating themselves, and (decent) job not creation keeping up. It's now harder for everyone our age to get a job because employers that don't need to ask for a degree are asking for one, AND supply is still well beyond demand. 

The whole system is just plain daft, and ends up costing society, making the argument that only graduates benefit from their education so should stump up the bill look even more silly than it already was. 

Of course the idea of charging people for education is silly in the first place, there's no economic rationale to it, and I agree with the argument that fees affect the worse off more- but if you really want to increase the amount of less privileged people going to Uni you have to start way earlier in their education, all the way back to primary school.  

Scrap fees, plow a lot more money into apprenticeships & proper careers guidance in schools & sixth forms. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by MattDavies__

[Rose-Colored Boy]

16 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

That does surprise me and something I never even thought of ... 

Obviously someone struggling to put food on the table isn't going to prioritise how the environment will look in 150 years time over which party promises to honestly reduce in-work poverty. That's just logic.