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Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury


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37 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

But hey if these elderly people dont think `their taxes` should go towards things that benefit young people....maybe I dont want my taxes going towards looking after the elderly generations in their later years either? see where this road goes down? 

This is a battle elderly generations seem to want to start but dont seem to realise they will never and can never win.

You're a bad snivelling biff.

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44 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

There's a lot of twaddle getting talked about decades gone by. The 70s were much shitter than today in many ways.

The food alone would have most people back in the time machine to 2017.

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1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

I won't deny there are some degrees of questionable worth unless you really want to practically get into that field. Photography etc. - things that would be better suited to apprenticeships anyway.

But a lot of the more academic subjects that don't have many practical applications (History, Art, Literature, etc.) still teach you things beyond the degree itself. You learn how to learn, you learn self motivation, you learn critical thinking and so on. Even "hard" sciences do the same: few would argue that physics isn't a valuable subject, but reality is that we don't need that many physicists. But you're not going to figure out at 18 who the future physicists are either...

Likewise I did computer science as a degree but that's complete overkill if you just want to be a software developer. Learn to code, start making things and the rest is best learned on the job. 90% of whatever else you learn will be useless. Knowledge of how super computers work isn't going to help you develop the online shopping cart for Tesco.

This is a fair point. But I still think for these there should be a cap on state funded places for these subjects. Sure history graduates don't usually become historians so you wouldn't cap it this way, but an analysis of the labour market, getting a rough idea of the sorts of jobs for which demonstration of these skills is essential etc would be useful. And then dividing these allocations between subjects such as history, geography, sociology etc accordingly. Because the problem is people are walking out of these degrees with their time and money wasted going to jobs currently where even demonstrating these skills isn't thought to be anywhere near as important as what's learned on the job. 

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1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

some of us were paying 2/3rds of our income for a manky mouldy bedsit, because funnily enough the housing stock back then was MUCH worse than today.

There's a lot of twaddle getting talked about decades gone by. The 70s were much shitter than today in many ways.

so whats changed? other then life costs a lot more alongside these days? people are still paying 2/3 of their income for shitty moudly bedsits and many of those sitting in government voted AGAINST doing anything about such rogue landlords(no suprises most of those are also landlords themselves!) 

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2 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

so whats changed? other then life costs a lot more alongside these days? people are still paying 2/3 of their income for shitty moudly bedsits and many of those sitting in government voted AGAINST doing anything about such rogue landlords(no suprises most of those are also landlords themselves!) 

you really are coming across as someone who has a major chip on your shoulder  and not because of your political persuasion ... I'm not sure what you do want to happen in this country but we do know what you don't like 

I' not being rude , I'm making an observation 

 

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1 hour ago, waterfalls212434 said:

so whats changed? 

I wouldn't claim that nothing has, or that things are the same or better today for all things for everyone in society.

But one of things that's also changed is the expectations of people. Healthcare is expected to ever-improve but the costs to stay the same. People expect to live longer but the costs of post-working life to stay the same. People expect the opportunity to go to uni when there were limits before and expect the costs to stay the same. Etc, etc, etc.

We can do better than we are, but we're going to have to pay for it. 

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2 hours ago, waterfalls212434 said:

so whats changed? other then life costs a lot more alongside these days? people are still paying 2/3 of their income for shitty moudly bedsits and many of those sitting in government voted AGAINST doing anything about such rogue landlords(no suprises most of those are also landlords themselves!) 

Construction has improved so mould is less common these days and things like central heating and double glazing are close to standard. And we have better ways to treat mould when it does occur.

Shitty landlords still exist, but we make and fit better housing now.

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22 hours ago, DeanoL said:

That's the point of the song though, it's a worship song for atheists. Though my atheism doesn't stop me singing along with Christmas carols either...

Oh, I know the point of the song.  Frank said he often found himself at gatherings where things like 'Will the circle be unbroken' were sung and he wanted an atheist alternative.  Fair enough.  I just never liked the line "There never was no God" (the double negation was intentional).  I am not even sure what my beliefs are these days, but that line just sounded unpleasant.

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The school system needs to have more of an interest in getting leavers into decent jobs. All the schools in a given area compete for applicants on the basis of GCSE results and whatever percentage got into a university. I had no interest in going to university, so they had no interest in whether I lived or died. With hindsight I should never have even bothered going to exams, they just took up a day I could've been at work. I didn't bother going in on results day, my mate text my results to me, she could've lied and I'd never know. I fucked around in unskilled work for years, until finding a half decent one in a call centre, where the company had an interest in developing its staff and giving them skills to move up the chain. Now I've got a decent job, but I still find it pretty shit that I went to school every day for so many years, and pretty much earned no fucking life skills from it. Everything I've ever learned that's useful I was taught in work. Maybe there's so many people going to university because they've not got a clue how to go and find decent work.

 

fuck the tories though lads

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2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I wouldn't claim that nothing has, or that things are the same or better today for all things for everyone in society.

But one of things that's also changed is the expectations of people. Healthcare is expected to ever-improve but the costs to stay the same. People expect to live longer but the costs of post-working life to stay the same. People expect the opportunity to go to uni when there were limits before and expect the costs to stay the same. Etc, etc, etc.

We can do better than we are, but we're going to have to pay for it. 

But .. but... Corbyn's promised to do all of this without increasing costs. I think you've got that wrong Neil.

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11 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

But .. but... Corbyn's promised to do all of this without increasing costs. I think you've got that wrong Neil.

Or perhaps Jez has? Shall we have a look at what it says in that "fully costed" manifesto? :P

The holes are so obvious I sussed them out weeks before the IFS highlighted the same things.

And now we have torykip and labourkip taking the country to hard UKIP brexit :( ... and that's supposed to be a Labour leader who's down with the kids. :lol:

 

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13 hours ago, GETOFFAMYLAWN said:

The school system needs to have more of an interest in getting leavers into decent jobs. All the schools in a given area compete for applicants on the basis of GCSE results and whatever percentage got into a university. I had no interest in going to university, so they had no interest in whether I lived or died. With hindsight I should never have even bothered going to exams, they just took up a day I could've been at work. I didn't bother going in on results day, my mate text my results to me, she could've lied and I'd never know. I fucked around in unskilled work for years, until finding a half decent one in a call centre, where the company had an interest in developing its staff and giving them skills to move up the chain. Now I've got a decent job, but I still find it pretty shit that I went to school every day for so many years, and pretty much earned no fucking life skills from it. Everything I've ever learned that's useful I was taught in work. Maybe there's so many people going to university because they've not got a clue how to go and find decent work.

 

fuck the tories though lads

There's a lot more to school than it just being a tool to get people into jobs (which is what it's whole goal at the minute anyway, and is failing miserable at). It sounds to me that you just didn't like school anyway, didn't give a fuck about it, and thus never put the effort in to get the most out of school.

I do commend you for working at it to get to a decent place in life though.

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On 12/07/2017 at 3:33 PM, UEF said:

The food alone would have most people back in the time machine to 2017.

 

Smash, "fish" fingers and an arctic roll for desert......

 

Not that they would be able to cook it with the power cuts and all that.  

 

Wonder how many would retain their left wing beliefs when their beloved internet was taken from them? ;)

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I think people claiming that university places or courses be limited are forgetting that further education is an attractive option because of the lack of jobs for the youth market.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/teenagers-not-in-work-school-significant-increase-15-per-cent-rise-unemployment-youth-a7755321.html

I think tuition fees are probably as fair as you can get, maybe the price is arguable. You only pay back once earning over a certain amount. Talking to a friend who went to uni in the 90's she said it was ridiculous how many didn't show up or put effort in - if you're paying for it you're more likely to work at it ( figures may of course prove me wrong). 

Basing entrance for limited spaces on applications can only go back to excluding those with a less privileged background. Two people with the same results on paper but one has had the privilege of more life experiences and gets in based on that surely takes us backwards. 

I'm no Tory but think @babyblade41 has been given a bit of a hard time on here. I'm also "retired" on ill health grounds at the ripe old age of 42 on the advice of my consultant to spend my time with my family (things were not looking good), I claim pip but will take a miracle to reach state pension age. The old adage "walk a mile in my shoes" springs to mind. It's easy to have ideals till we are in a situation.

How many parents on here don't want to secure a future for our children through inheritance. How many people on here would happily pass up inheritance and write a cheque to the government. Be honest. As someone else said, its not all black and white, there are many shades of grey (50 according to a certain book :)).

As to the specific question of are Tories welcome...well I hope they are. In the same way us energy guzzling planet destroying people are. In the same way a non believer would be welcomed in to a church for perhaps a christening or funeral. We all have something to learn from others.

 

 

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1 hour ago, slash's hat said:

How many parents on here don't want to secure a future for our children through inheritance. How many people on here would happily pass up inheritance and write a cheque to the government. Be honest. As someone else said, its not all black and white, there are many shades of grey (50 according to a certain book :)).

As to the specific question of are Tories welcome...well I hope they are. In the same way us energy guzzling planet destroying people are. In the same way a non believer would be welcomed in to a church for perhaps a christening or funeral. We all have something to learn from others.

Thank you , I really started to wonder why some felt that putting my family as top priority a selfish act !!

,   A good distant friend is full on left and we can have really wild debates  and have as many hilarious debates , we agree on a lot , we disagree on a lot but if I'm in trouble she'd be there like a shot and vice versa 

That last paragraph is so true , perhaps we are all guilty of hypocrisy in some way shape or form but you'd all be welcome at my house ... well as long as you don't mind  dogs clambering over you and the odd turkey taking a fancy to something shiny that is on your person.

Debate is fine and healthy, abuse achieves the opposite ,  

Still trying to  find a suitable option so that I can try for Glastonbury tickets next October ...who knows what the future holds for us all just hope all of you have your health as there is not a Government in the world can give you back that once it's gone 

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On 10/07/2017 at 7:39 PM, Lad said:

There's a difference in people accepting the dominant ethos and wanting to ban someone cos of thought crime.Most of the lefties on show at Glastonbury were posh.

Where do you get your figures for the fire?

 

 

 

Who said anything about banning? I certainly didn't and don't think anyone else here did. Just saying don't expect to be met with a warm welcome when you reveal you're a tory at glastonbury and also don't fool yourself into thinking tories are entitled to glastonbury. It's always been a place for left wing ideas and that's how it'll stay. Nobody has to debate with tories, they're not entitled to anyones time or energy, despite what they seem to think. 

Simple. Figure is in the hundreds because of how many are confirmed dead from the fire, confirmed dead but "unrelated to fire" (thanks to a wonderful new tory policy that doesn't count those who jumped, had heart attacks etc from stress, or even those who died from smoke inhalation. All a bid to keep death figures down with fires because they "removed the red tape" as Boris would say), and those who are still missing (because you know, people who have been burnt to ash will never be found or confirmed dead). 

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On 10/07/2017 at 7:45 PM, KingPin said:

Sorry but this is straight up bullshit. It's really not the Tories fault that Grenfell Tower happened, it's a tragedy that pretty much everybody has played a part in and trying to blame it on the government is simply wrong.

Oh look some class warfare, let's play a game, and see if you can see the similarities. It's labour that are intolerant, and it's the rich they won't tolerate. To act like it's the Tories that are intolerant is just naive. Tories are just reacting to the continued pressure placed on businesses that make it harder than ever to make it your own way with your own business. Labour are extremely exclusionary and if you're feeling a bit left out because people actually want to make something of themselves and aren't just lying down accepting government benefits then boohoo. 

See you can spin it both ways and it's simply a load of bullshit.

Seriously? It isn't down to Tory policy on health and safety that Grenfell happened? It isn't down to Boris selling social housing off to private firms who had interests in Gentrifying London? It isn't down to the Tory council who KNEW that building was unsafe, who SIGNED OFF on the cheap cladding that they KNEW wasn't fireproof? It isn't down to Tories REFUSING to sign off on legislation LAST YEAR to make it a legal requirement that all rental housing must be suitable for habitation (i.e. safe, clean, spacious)? 

Give your head a wobble and look at the facts mate instead of living in the tory bubble of "oh what an awful tragedy I have no idea how this happened". People KNOW why it happened, the residents of that building even predicted what would happen (does that not make you fucking angry by the way? They predicted their own deaths and were ignored). Tories can stick their head in the sand but the truth about their policies is coming out

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10 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

Still trying to  find a suitable option so that I can try for Glastonbury tickets next October ...who knows what the future holds for us all just hope all of you have your health as there is not a Government in the world can give you back that once it's gone 

One with a functioning NHS maybe?

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On 10/07/2017 at 8:02 PM, mashedonmud said:

Not really factual. Think you could blame Building Regulations before any political party. I don't know what Government was in charge when the tower was built. Who was running the country when they decided not to fit sprinklers. Who had the vote when they decided that one stairwell was sufficient still. etc etc To many issues just to lay the blame on the most recent Government. Tory Gov still shit but not to blame for this,. I Hope they pay attention and upgrade all buildings that require it asap and re home all that need it NOW.

Who signed off on regulation? Who "removed the red tape"? Who approved the unsafe cladding that resulted in the fire (because no, it wasn't the original building that made it as bad as it was)? Who sold off the social housing to private firms interested in gentrification? Who refused to make it law last year to make homes suitable for habitation? 

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