Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

[frostypaw]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Go on, clear up my confusion by telling me where I'm confused.

Those are obviously different lines in conversation that you've spent the last X minutes mashing together to try and look right

Not engaging with you further about this, it's just silly.

7 minutes ago, KingPin said:

I refuse to believe that the outcome of ones life is ultimately down to luck, choices in life matter and do affect things. Of course there will always be outliers, but generally speaking those who make good life choices do well in life.

They do yes, but the % change when averaged across everyone is astonishingly small compared to the difference a lucky roll can make.

Doesn't mean don't try of course, but does mean don't blame people if it hasn't worked - the chances of that being entirely down to them are very small. Sympathy wins over blame for sure

[DickButkis]

[hfuhruhurr]

29 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Then what about those who overcome their obstacles to achieve greatness, is their situation not down to merit?

No, sorry, when you look at it, it's nearly always down circumstances over which they had no control/influence. 

[WayneT]

It's gonna be a long two years....

[KingPin]

Just now, frostypaw said:

Those are obviously different lines in conversation that you've spent the last X minutes mashing together to try and look right

Not engaging with you further about this, it's just silly.

They do yes, but the % change when averaged across everyone is astonishingly small compared to the difference a lucky roll can make.

Doesn't mean don't try of course, but does mean don't blame people if it hasn't worked - the chances of that being entirely down to them are very small. Sympathy wins over blame for sure

I don't blame anybody if it doesn't work out, life can be crushingly difficult, I just dissagree that luck is the deciding factor in how you acheive in life.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, frostypaw said:

Those are obviously different lines in conversation that you've spent the last X minutes mashing together to try and look right

Not engaging with you further about this, it's just silly.

I quoted the relevant parts of the conversation in the order they were posted.

C'mon, I'm asking a sensible question about what you've said. Do you have a sensible answer?

Or do you just have deflection as an attempt to hide your own error?

[KingPin]

2 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

No, sorry, when you look at it, it's nearly always down circumstances over which they had no control/influence. 

But they still choose to take the opportinities that helped them in life as they were presented to the individual, and then it's down to the individual to suceed with the opportunity given to them, where many fail. This is still down to the merit of the individual, and it's a rather defeatist attitude to say otherwise that I don't like or agree with. 

[phillyfaddle]

3 minutes ago, KingPin said:

No, Stephen Hawking could be flat out broke, but what he's acheived, if just by increasing his own standard of living as his body failed him is something truly great, let alone all the other scientific acheivements he's acheived.

"...increasing his own standard of living" - did you mean his monetary wealth, or were you referring to his use of the advanced technology which allowed him to communicate his ground-breaking mathematical research, despite MND? What is truly great is his contribution to our understanding of the universe.

(Anyway, Hawking votes Labour, he's not daft  )

[frostypaw]

Just now, KingPin said:

I don't blame anybody if it doesn't work out, life can be crushingly difficult, I just dissagree that luck is the deciding factor in how you acheive in life.

Fair enough, I can't point you to exact data as I dunno where to even find that - just watch others, it's pretty clear that many of those who succeed are not that meritorious.

 

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

I quoted the relevant parts of the conversation in the order they were posted.

No you didn't Neil, you've posted half of one line in conversation about students then conflated it with a conversation about nationalisation. That's so obviously silly I've no need to answer you at all - but you can't stop yourself being highly unpleasant about it - why should I engage with that it's just horrible.

[KingPin]

3 minutes ago, phillyfaddle said:

"...increasing his own standard of living" - did you mean his monetary wealth, or were you referring to his use of the advanced technology which allowed him to communicate his ground-breaking mathematical research, despite MND? What is truly great is his contribution to our understanding of the universe.

(Anyway, Hawking votes Labour, he's not daft  )

It still took his ingenuity to make it work. And yes his contribution to the understanding of the universe is his legacy and greatness, but I was just saying managing to overcome his MND alone is an an acheivement of greatness and should be recognised as such.

I don't know I think voting for either of the 2 major parties is stupidly daft, but that's all about perspective isn't it  (Neither of the major parties, and pretty much none of the minor parties are fit for purpose, and thus don't deserve the vote, IMO)

Edited July 11, 2017 by KingPin

[eFestivals]

 

Quote

No you didn't Neil, you've posted half of one line in conversation about students then conflated it with a conversation about nationalisation.

I've posted what I said to one particular line of yours, addressing *just* that line. YOU mentioned nationalisation, not me.

Honest question: does that 'nationalisation' go back to something previous of yours, from before I picked out that one line?
(if so, care to direct me to it?)

Because otherwise, when you said I was imagining something it was you who was doing the imagining.

 

 

Quote

That's so obviously silly I've no need to answer you at all - but you can't stop yourself being highly unpleasant about it - why should I engage with that it's just horrible.

The unpleasant is your responses like this. I've done none of this at you.

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by eFestivals

[hfuhruhurr]

Just now, KingPin said:

But they still choose to take the opportinities that helped them in life as they were presented to the individual, and then it's down to the individual to suceed with the opportunity given to them, where many fail. This is still down to the merit of the individual, and it's a rather defeatist attitude to say otherwise that I don't like or agree with. 

Yes, to succeed, you need to have made (some) right choices - agreed (you might also have made some wrong ones too!). But success is not guaranteed, no matter how good the choices - whether you do something great/succeed is not entirely under your control. This is the business book publishing and speaker circuit - loads of fools buying into the thinking that if they do what it says they'll be rich. Er... no.

The key lesson I've learned is I'm a lucky bastard and should be thankful and give back at every opportunity.

[KingPin]

1 minute ago, hfuhruhurr said:

Yes, to succeed, you need to have made (some) right choices - agreed (you might also have made some wrong ones too!). But success is not guaranteed, no matter how good the choices - whether you do something great/succeed is not entirely under your control. This is the business book publishing and speaker circuit - loads of fools buying into the thinking that if they do what it says they'll be rich. Er... no.

The key lesson I've learned is I'm a lucky bastard and should be thankful and give back at every opportunity.

No success isn't guarenteed by making the right choices, but statistically it helps (just finishing school vs not finishing school shows difference), but this is just life, nothing is guarenteed.

[frostypaw]

Just now, eFestivals said:

The unpleasant is your responses like this. I've done none of this at you.

HAHAHA no but seriously cheers  it's good you can put a bit of humour in to lighten this. I'll take that joke to mean it wasn't intentional and just down to misunderstandings and leave it all at that.

[eFestivals]

Just now, frostypaw said:

HAHAHA no but seriously cheers  it's good you can put a bit of humour in to lighten this. I'll take that joke to mean it wasn't intentional and just down to misunderstandings and leave it all at that.

no misunderstandings now.

[medzy]

I have been coming to the festival every year since 2004 and for the most part enjoyed the festival immensely.  I have always gone for the music and various other acts that perform.  I have always found it to be a peaceful and loving atmosphere where all views are accepted with no hard feelings.  I found this year was my first year where I can see a divide amongst the crowds (obviously more left than right of course) which for me is a signal of how the country currently feels as well.  I know that everyone says it has always been a political festival which it has but this year it has gone further than it has for a long time.  

If this is a trend for future festivals then my days of attending are over.  I would like to point out that if other festivals were to become more right wing then I would say exactly the same thing as well.  For me I go for enjoyment, a break from the day to day happenings within this country and I don't want to have to be reminded of all these things when you are enjoying some downtime from reality.  Is that too much to ask? I guess so  

Efestivals I thought was about music and festivals?  Am I wrong?

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

A think of this thread had been set up as a straightforward poll it would've saved everybody a lot of time.

[sjseabass]

12 minutes ago, medzy said:

I have been coming to the festival every year since 2004 and for the most part enjoyed the festival immensely.  I have always gone for the music and various other acts that perform.  I have always found it to be a peaceful and loving atmosphere where all views are accepted with no hard feelings.  I found this year was my first year where I can see a divide amongst the crowds (obviously more left than right of course) which for me is a signal of how the country currently feels as well.  I know that everyone says it has always been a political festival which it has but this year it has gone further than it has for a long time.  

If this is a trend for future festivals then my days of attending are over.  I would like to point out that if other festivals were to become more right wing then I would say exactly the same thing as well.  For me I go for enjoyment, a break from the day to day happenings within this country and I don't want to have to be reminded of all these things when you are enjoying some downtime from reality.  Is that too much to ask? I guess so  

Efestivals I thought was about music and festivals?  Am I wrong?

*wave*

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[cammie81]

17 minutes ago, medzy said:

For me I go for enjoyment, a break from the day to day happenings within this country and I don't want to have to be reminded of all these things when you are enjoying some downtime from reality.  Is that too much to ask? I guess so

Glastonbury has the scale and scope to have pretty much whatever type of festival you want. Just have to choose wisely.

[eFestivals]

23 minutes ago, medzy said:

Efestivals I thought was about music and festivals?  Am I wrong?

festivals are about music and festivals. efestivals has always been about more than just that ... and i'm not sure you'd have posted similar in (say) the topics about recent events in Manc or Ldn.

No one is expected to have an interest in all subjects. If a topic isn't for you, the clue is normally in the title.

[Cnr_22]

I distinctly remember it being Thursday night time (-ish) in SHITV and the band on were doing some very anti-tory things, in the middle of the dancefloor(?) a couple stood absolutely stood still whilst everyone around them lost their collective shits' singing "Ohhh Jeremy Corbyn" was quite funny actually, looked like it could've been a scene from a sitcom...

[Rose-Colored Boy]

28 minutes ago, Cnr_22 said:

I distinctly remember it being Thursday night time (-ish) in SHITV and the band on were doing some very anti-tory things, in the middle of the dancefloor(?) a couple stood absolutely stood still whilst everyone around them lost their collective shits' singing "Ohhh Jeremy Corbyn" was quite funny actually, looked like it could've been a scene from a sitcom...

Bit like me when Frank Turner sung that dreadful 'god doesn't exist' song a couple of years back.

[Watergirl]

22 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Bit like me when Frank Turner sung that dreadful 'god doesn't exist' song a couple of years back.

I am a big Frank fan but was never fond of that song either ('Glory hallelujah').  I couldn't bring myself to sing the chorus, which was awkward as I do front row quite a bit.  He has now finally dropped it out off his set, after playing it for about five years!

[elias]

2 hours ago, medzy said:

 I found this year was my first year where I can see a divide amongst the crowds (obviously more left than right of course) which for me is a signal of how the country currently feels as well.  I know that everyone says it has always been a political festival which it has but this year it has gone further than it has for a long time.  

I think the clue is in your last line. 'A long time'. I get the feeling many of the posters in this thread will not have been around in the 80's when the festival was something very different to what it is now.
Festival going back then was for those on the (left leaning) edges of society rather than the mainstream or at least Glastonbury was. Politics was interwoven into the very fabric of the festival. It might have become lessened over time, but surely we don't have to lose it altogether? Glastonbury has ALWAYS been about much more than music.

Personally I don't care if you voted Tory - attend and have a great time, but please don't expect the festival to change because you don't like its politics.

[Smeble]

1 hour ago, Cnr_22 said:

I distinctly remember it being Thursday night time (-ish) in SHITV and the band on were doing some very anti-tory things, in the middle of the dancefloor(?) a couple stood absolutely stood still whilst everyone around them lost their collective shits' singing "Ohhh Jeremy Corbyn" was quite funny actually, looked like it could've been a scene from a sitcom...

Or a '50's sci fi film.