Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

[eFestivals]

38 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Under the rule of law in this country everybody has individual liberty and personal choice.

and "Under the rule of law in this country everybody has..." the obligation to pay taxes in certain circumstances. 

So if you're going to shout "Under the rule of law in this country everybody has...", you'll also have to shout that you've been an utter cock toi claim taxes as theft.

Off you go.

 

38 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Savings are directly related to the creation of past resources,

Oh know they're not... unless you're going to show me where all of the surplus goods created in the past are stacked up ready toi b used in the future by the people who created them, as a representation of their savings.

Without what has been saved from a person's past work - that stack of unused-but-already-created resources - those 'savings' don't exist.

So go on then ... show me where the pile of goods are that are what you've saved for use in later life.

Unless you can, you'll have to end up admitting that the idea of savings is a con by the rich onto the poor, to enable those rich to have first dibs on output that might be created in the future.

 

38 minutes ago, KingPin said:

But if you're able to retire early then chances are you've already contributed much more than the average joe will contribute in their whole working lives,

Nope, that merely means you've collected more money. 

Money is not resources. It's a token of value, but where the value placed on anything is part of the 'savings' scam (see above).

 

38 minutes ago, KingPin said:

how is it then greedy and selfish when you've already done more for society that the average person.

go on then, prove to me that your worth to society is more than (say) a cleaner.

All you have is something that deems your worth as more, via the savings scam - which is merely a continuation of an initial lie.

 

38 minutes ago, KingPin said:

If I'm in a position of dieing or taking state pension I will take it, but I would prefer not too.

PMSL :lol:

The only person causing you to take it will be you - and will prove your "I would prefer not too" take it as the massive self-serving whopper is it.

 

38 minutes ago, KingPin said:

My parents payed for my schooling so no I didn't steal my schooling.

your words: taxation is theft.

Therefore the govt stole it from your parents and you stole it from the govt.

Or you KNOW just how much of a liar you're being. Or you're very very stupid. Take your pick.

[Michaels denim shorts]

42 minutes ago, KingPin said:

It's better than going to the shit schools in Rochdale and my Parents sacrificed a huge ammount to send me to private schooling.

*amount 

[eFestivals]

47 minutes ago, Lad said:

Like you've turned into a gobshite. It happens.

says the brexit voting geezer who used to claim he was a TUSC voter but is posting here in support of rabid capitalism.

How very very odd.

PS: who also likes to indulge in a bit of homophobic slang, nice. 

Edited July 11, 2017 by eFestivals

[frostypaw]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

by having 80% less of them, and sending that other 80% out to do productive work that benefits the wealth of the country as well as tax revenues...?

Seems fine. Were you expecting an argument?

Though why you'd imagine a business that's capable of being profitable in private hands is incapable of being profitable in public hands mystifies me.

Does look like someone pressed the car crash button in here now

[babyblade41]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

.... while failing to pay income tax contributions of the same scale as they would have done if they'd have kept on working, and failing to contribute towards the wealth of the nation via the value of their work.

To me the words "from each according to his ability to each according to his needs" should apply to everyone equally for all of the years that society deems people should work for.

Someone shouldn't be permitted to duck out of their years of contributions to society, whether poor, rich, or in the middle.

We *all* have a duty to contribute towards *all of* humanity's existence.

that's all well and good but my priority will always be to my children above anything else and they would rather have me alive rather than a stress related heart attack due to ongoing health issues in that dept. Dr's told me I'd be dead within 5 years if I didn't slow down. 

After that information I didn't think " no way I can give up work as I can't live with myself for not contributing to the rest of society"  as it's better to get something off me even if it's  a lower contribution rather than before as you'd get nothing at all if I'm dead 

Trust me I miss the adrenaline that went with work but I'd literally burnt myself out so decided to take Dr's advice  .  I probably won't live long enough to pick up a state pension so my conscience is clear 

[Lad]

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

says the brexit voting geezer who used to claim he was a TUSC voter but is posting here in support of rabid capitalism.

How very very odd.

PS: who also likes to indulge in a bit of homophobic slang, nice. 

I'm posting about banning people from a festival if you don't approve of their views.Try and keep up.

 

So we can take it that you're ok with,taking at what she said at face value,giving shit to a woman looking after her kids?Par for the course with you.

 

Homophobic slang.

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Seems fine. Were you expecting an argument?

from the 80% of students that would be getting their hards dirty instead, quite possibly.

 

11 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Though why you'd imagine a business that's capable of being profitable in private hands is incapable of being profitable in public hands mystifies me.

Erm ... income from outside sources?  

A self-funding enterprise can never be a profitable enterprise.

 

11 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Does look like someone pressed the car crash button in here now

inconvenient facts have ruined the echo chamber?  That's life. 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Lad said:

I'm posting about banning people from a festival if you don't approve of their views.Try and keep up.

 

So we can take it that you're ok with,taking at what she said at face value,giving shit to a woman looking after her kids?Par for the course with you.

 

Homophobic slang.

if your words were intelligible I might have a counter point. 

 

[frostypaw]

Just now, eFestivals said:

from the 80% of students that would be getting their hards dirty instead, quite possibly.

 

Erm ... income from outside sources?  

A self-funding enterprise can never be a profitable enterprise.

 

inconvenient facts have ruined the echo chamber?  That's life. 

Argue with them about that one - considering many of their opinions about those useless degrees and the debt they accrued they'd possibly agree and would have been happier with work based training.

I think you're a bit confused Neil - being publicly owned doesn't mean you can't charge people for a thing. Obviously.

And back to your old drum banging and straw men..... no not at all, more that what was a decent chat has descending into you hectoring again and shouting at people. Sorry "winning".

[Lad]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

if your words were intelligible I might have a counter point. 

 

Your counter point would be only rubbish so you're better saying nothing.

[WayneT]

so am i welcome to come next time or not...? 

[hfuhruhurr]

13 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

13 hours ago, babyblade41 said:

what about the thousands of small business owners employing under 10 employees ?? paternity leave , leave for a cold, in this life learn to look after yourself and not expect everyone else to look after you. I was brought up to look after number one as no fucker else will do it for you.. and they didn't' been through labour and tory governments 

Instead of whinging about how little benefit you get try doing what I did and find work it's not that hard, admittedly you might have to do the low paid jobs but from them you can build..far too many want everyone to pay for them.. no solution apart from work and working is what gets results simples ..if I can do it as a single female with 2 small children then anyone can 

 

I was brought up to look after those most in need. That kindness was a virtue and that a community that looks out for one another is a happier, stronger community.

This is the absolute essence of the issue.

Roll the dice, you're healthy, wealthy and wise - you choose to care or you decide that everything you have is down to merit.

Roll the dice, you might have a chronic condition, you might be born into poverty, you might have been to a crap school - you choose to care or you decide the everything you don't have is down to the system.

Choose to care. And sorry, but I get massively angry and upset when the lucky ones think their situation is down to merit - it fucking isn't. So have a care.

[frostypaw]

1 minute ago, WayneT said:

so am i welcome to come next time or not...? 

Only in fancy dress, or that's it you'll be out on your ear!

[WayneT]

Thank you! Is my full Mrs Thatcher costume suitable...?

4 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Only in fancy dress, or that's it you'll be out on your ear!

 

[frostypaw]

1 minute ago, WayneT said:

Thank you! Is my full Mrs Thatcher costume suitable...?

Actually that could be great fun. You could really drop some bombs sidling up to certain people, slipping them a fiver and thanking them profusely and graciously before vanishing back into the crowd

[Rose-Colored Boy]

14 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

This is the absolute essence of the issue.

Roll the dice, you're healthy, wealthy and wise - you choose to care or you decide that everything you have is down to merit.

Roll the dice, you might have a chronic condition, you might be born into poverty, you might have been to a crap school - you choose to care or you decide the everything you don't have is down to the system.

Choose to care. And sorry, but I get massively angry and upset when the lucky ones think their situation is down to merit - it fucking isn't. So have a care.

Most sensible post in this thread for quite a while. Thank you.

[KingPin]

16 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

This is the absolute essence of the issue.

Roll the dice, you're healthy, wealthy and wise - you choose to care or you decide that everything you have is down to merit.

Roll the dice, you might have a chronic condition, you might be born into poverty, you might have been to a crap school - you choose to care or you decide the everything you don't have is down to the system.

Choose to care. And sorry, but I get massively angry and upset when the lucky ones think their situation is down to merit - it fucking isn't. So have a care.

Then what about those who overcome their obstacles to achieve greatness, is their situation not down to merit?

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

Argue with them about that one - considering many of their opinions about those useless degrees and the debt they accrued they'd possibly agree and would have been happier with work based training.

if that's true, then ultimately it falls back on those people who chose to do a 'useless' degree. No one held a gun to their heads.

I simply pointed out the fact - the fact you raised with an erroneous comparison - of why comparing today's Uni structure with the Uni structure of the past is not a fair and reasonable comparison, because it's not merely how the costs are covered that has changed,.

 

22 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

I think you're a bit confused Neil - being publicly owned doesn't mean you can't charge people for a thing. Obviously.

in which case the confusion is all yours, by you firstly imagining that I was doing similar imagining.

 

 

22 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

And back to your old drum banging and straw men..... no not at all, more that what was a decent chat has descending into you hectoring again and shouting at people. Sorry "winning".

piceless

 

[frostypaw]

1 minute ago, KingPin said:

Then what about those who overcome their obstacles to achieve greatness, is their situation not down to merit?

How about all those who struggle for so long to overcome it, but don't? There's still a huge luck factor.

 

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

in which case the confusion is all yours, by you firstly imagining that I was doing similar imagining.

Oh come on. Just not worth engaging with you on these topics, you just go full arse.

[eFestivals]

Just now, frostypaw said:

Oh come on. Just not worth engaging with you on these topics, you just go full arse.

oh come on. Where did I "imagine" what you said I did?

I didn't say anything about ownership, profit, or anything related, yet you said...

Quote

Though why you'd imagine a business that's capable of being profitable in private hands is incapable of being profitable in public hands mystifies me.

Fuck's sake

[frostypaw]

48 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Erm ... income from outside sources?  

A self-funding enterprise can never be a profitable enterprise.

Which is why I've now I think entirely given up on any political discussion with you, it's a total waste of time.

So.... moving on from that.

[KingPin]

16 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

How about all those who struggle for so long to overcome it, but don't? There's still a huge luck factor.

 

Oh come on. Just not worth engaging with you on these topics, you just go full arse.

Well surely it depends on why those failed to overcome their difficulties and problems. Whilst there's no doubt that luck does play a part in the course of ones life (hell we're all hugely lucky to be born in a country that has high degrees of freedom and standard of living), I refuse to believe that the outcome of ones life is ultimately down to luck, choices in life matter and do affect things. Of course there will always be outliers, but generally speaking those who make good life choices do well in life.

Edited July 11, 2017 by KingPin

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, frostypaw said:

Which is why I've now I think entirely given up on any political discussion with you, it's a total waste of time.

So.... moving on from that.

Oh, FFS.

You said...
It's strange - how did we once afford students at all? 

I said
by having 80% less of them, and sending that other 80% out to do productive work that benefits the wealth of the country as well as tax revenues...?

You said
Though why you'd imagine a business that's capable of being profitable in private hands is incapable of being profitable in public hands mystifies me.

I said
Erm ... income from outside sources?  
A self-funding enterprise can never be a profitable enterprise.

You said
I think you're a bit confused Neil - being publicly owned doesn't mean you can't charge people for a thing. Obviously.

Etc, etc, etc.

I pointed out that we afforded students in the past by having far fewer students. 

Where does "a business that's capable of being profitable in private hands is incapable of being profitable in public hands" come in to anything I said, apart from in your own imagination?

Go on, clear up my confusion by telling me where I'm confused.

 

[phillyfaddle]

20 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Then what about those who overcome their obstacles to achieve greatness, is their situation not down to merit?

Is "greatness" in your view, solely defined by the amount of money someone has?

[KingPin]

1 minute ago, phillyfaddle said:

Is "greatness" in your view, solely defined by the amount of money someone has?

No, Stephen Hawking could be flat out broke, but what he's acheived, if just by increasing his own standard of living as his body failed him is something truly great, let alone all the other scientific acheivements he's acheived.