Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

[DeanoL]

3 hours ago, babyblade41 said:

what you as a law abiding citizen don't understand is there are and I have 2 in my own family who know the benefit system so well,

Firstly they get housing benefit which equates to 12k a year in the property they live in ..4 kids so I'm not sure what that equates to with child benefit plus some other payment some kind of tax credit. The partner does cash jobs on the side . They both drive good quality cars and go out at least twice a week plus 2 holidays a year . Neither of them work , sky tv , iPhones , and internet.

 

So the way these workshy scrounges make a good living is... working? Not saying they're not cheating the system, they clearly are, but to have the life they want they're also having to work. They're not scrounges, they're con men.

42 minutes ago, mashedonmud said:

Not really factual. Think you could blame Building Regulations before any political party. I don't know what Government was in charge when the tower was built. Who was running the country when they decided not to fit sprinklers. Who had the vote when they decided that one stairwell was sufficient still. etc etc To many issues just to lay the blame on the most recent Government. 

Right but one party wants to invest in emergency services and increase regulation, the other wants to cut services pay and decrease regulation. Doesn't take a genius to work out which party is most likely to prevent such future disasters.

[Ommadawn]

23 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

80% tax rate for anyone earning over £500k pa, please. Nobody needs that much money and I'm sick to death of this country being held to ransom by rich people 'threatening' to take their business elsewhere when we all know they wouldn't go through with it.

Already been tried by Harold Wilson. It didn't work.

[amfy]

5 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

That's a nice idea in principle but it wouldn't work and would be massively counterproductive. You may feel nobody needs that much money, but there aren't that many people who earn that much who would agree with you and they simply wouldn't tolerate it. They'd up sticks so we'd lose all the tax revenue from them, but more importantly the companies employing them would up sticks too, because they wouldn't be able to attract suitable staff because of the high rate tax. I think it's well proven there is a sweet spot for tax rates and it's much lower than 80%.

That rate of tax is still lower than elsewhere - so where are they heading?

Remember, they only pay that rate on the bit that is over the threshold, not on all of it - they don't actually lose 80% of their entire income. It only goes up to 80% after they have paid the same rate as the rest of us on a hell of a lot more than the rest of us will ever see.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

15 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

That's a nice idea in principle but it wouldn't work and would be massively counterproductive. You may feel nobody needs that much money, but there aren't that many people who earn that much who would agree with you and they simply wouldn't tolerate it. They'd up sticks so we'd lose all the tax revenue from them, but more importantly the companies employing them would up sticks too, because they wouldn't be able to attract suitable staff because of the high rate tax. I think it's well proven there is a sweet spot for tax rates and it's much lower than 80%.

We're 'told' the maximum tax rate before it starts being counterproductive is 49%. But I don't believe it for one second. Even in the unlikely event a few billionaires did up their sticks, we'd still be in a far better position as a country than we are at the moment.

[KingPin]

Just now, Zac Quinn said:

We're 'told' the maximum tax rate before it starts being counterproductive is 49%. But I don't believe it for one second. Even in the unlikely event a few billionaires did up their sticks, we'd still be in a far better position as a country than we are at the moment.

Even when these billionaires take their businesses with them and you leave thousands unemployed?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

7 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

Already been tried by Harold Wilson. It didn't work.

In the seventies! The economy now is unrecognisable compared to then. Come off it. 

[adjwholovesmusic]

I don't hate rich people. What I do hate is the unfairness of how Tory austerity has targeted normal working people and hit our public services  whilst business rates and corporation tax have been slashed with further cuts in the pipeline. Where's the balance there?? 

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by adjwholovesmusic

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Just now, KingPin said:

Even when these billionaires take their businesses with them and you leave thousands unemployed?

Which wouldn't happen, just like it always doesn't when the rich try and threaten the peasants out of wanting to make society just a little bit less shit.

[Michaels denim shorts]

54 minutes ago, KingPin said:

The point was to show that from either side of the fence you're sitting on you can make the same bullshit class warfare arguments that simply aren't true.

Regardless it's actually really really hard to get lots of money, and really really hard to keep that money as it requires outrageous number of hours worked whilst having the whole responsibility of the business laid on the shoulders of the person 'getting rich' from making sure they pass compliance, to making sure the tax is done correctly, to making sure their employees are all paid in full and on time (remember business people pay their employees before themselves ALWAYS) and a myriad of other things. There's a reason most businesses fail, and that's because it's outrageously difficult to actually make it work, and then lets say you even have some moderate success, it's equally hard, if not harder keeping that success, as, for example say you've opened up a new niche in the market, well your success is a massive flag to other ambitious people that there is money to be made here, so more people enter your part of the market, often hungrier and more efficient than you are.

The 'rich' have their own problems and challenges, they're just a different from the 'poor'.

But eating yourself or feeding your kids isn't one of them

[Hugh Jass]

1 hour ago, Lad said:

Where do you get your figures for the fire?

Lilly Allen.

[KingPin]

3 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Which wouldn't happen, just like it always doesn't when the rich try and threaten the peasants out of wanting to make society just a little bit less shit.

So that didn't happen to France? Right, must have missed all the rich French people currently living in London because of Hollande's tax hike, or that the French unemployment rate jumped up after Hollande got elected having previously started to fall from the post 08 high.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

8 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Which wouldn't happen, just like it always doesn't when the rich try and threaten the peasants out of wanting to make society just a little bit less shit.

But these companies can afford to pay salaries of £500k+ so are presumably also doing ok for themselves, so what do you suggest they pay in corporation tax? Less than 80% like their employees? Or more? Yes £500k is an obscene amount of money but it seem a odd to he taxin the individual a huge amount more then the employer, so either way the employer buggers off somewhere else where both they and their employees get taxed significantly less, why wouldn't they?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

4 minutes ago, KingPin said:

So that didn't happen to France? Right, must have missed all the rich French people currently living in London because of Hollande's tax hike, or that the French unemployment rate jumped up after Hollande got elected having previously started to fall from the post 08 high.

The French economy is definitely exactly comparable to the British one and all the companies who threatened to immediately leave on June 24th 2016 if the UK voted to leave definitely left and aren't still here. Definitely. Yep.

[Ommadawn]

18 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

In the seventies! The economy now is unrecognisable compared to then. Come off it. 

It didn't work then because the rich found various ways around it. What makes you think it would be any different now?

[Mash011]

40 minutes ago, KingPin said:

The rich are almost exclusively business owners, but business owners are not exclusively rich. 

Which is why I specified wealthy business owners? Genuinely puzzled now. 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

18 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

But these companies can afford to pay salaries of £500k+ so are presumably also doing ok for themselves, so what do you suggest they pay in corporation tax? Less than 80% like their employees? Or more? Yes £500k is an obscene amount of money but it seem a odd to he taxin the individual a huge amount more then the employer, so either way the employer buggers off somewhere else where both they and their employees get taxed significantly less, why wouldn't they?

Haven't thought about corporation tax in great detail because it's harder to understand tbqhwy. But there must be some way of making it work to make things fairer than the shit situation we're currently in.

[KingPin]

11 minutes ago, Mash011 said:

Which is why I specified wealthy business owners? Genuinely puzzled now. 

Because you can have rich people who aren't wealthy.

[Mash011]

3 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Because you can have rich people who aren't wealthy.

[KingPin]

1 minute ago, Mash011 said:

Because we're talking politics and the rich are always referred to as stuff like the 1% so I was talking in terms of revenue earned, which is why you can have rich people who aren't wealthy. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[jonodillieono]

9 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Because you can have rich people who aren't wealthy.

How the fuck does that work you pillock

[babyblade41]

what about the thousands of small business owners employing under 10 employees ?? paternity leave , leave for a cold, in this life learn to look after yourself and not expect everyone else to look after you. I was brought up to look after number one as no fucker else will do it for you.. and they didn't' been through labour and tory governments 

Instead of whinging about how little benefit you get try doing what I did and find work it's not that hard, admittedly you might have to do the low paid jobs but from them you can build..far too many want everyone to pay for them.. no solution apart from work and working is what gets results simples ..if I can do it as a single female with 2 small children then anyone can 

 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, KingPin said:

Because we're talking politics and the rich are always referred to as stuff like the 1% so I was talking in terms of revenue earned, which is why you can have rich people who aren't wealthy. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

It's still not very clear.

Are you saying not all people with high value assets have high incomes? Which is rich and which is wealthy?

[arcade fireman]

7 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

what about the thousands of small business owners employing under 10 employees ?? paternity leave , leave for a cold, in this life learn to look after yourself and not expect everyone else to look after you. I was brought up to look after number one as no fucker else will do it for you.. and they didn't' been through labour and tory governments 

Instead of whinging about how little benefit you get try doing what I did and find work it's not that hard, admittedly you might have to do the low paid jobs but from them you can build..far too many want everyone to pay for them.. no solution apart from work and working is what gets results simples ..if I can do it as a single female with 2 small children then anyone can 

 

You're right.

Maybe people should pay for their own doctors and nurses? Every time they get sick, they can pay as they go rather than expecting everyone else to pay for the "NHS". 

Maybe rather than having a state funded education system, parents should just all pay per lesson at school. Much better way of doing things don't you think? Those idiots who are too poor to educate their own kids can just print off Wikipedia pages.

You really have a great attitude. If the whole world had your attitude, we wouldn't need a heaven. We'd be already there. 

[stuartbert two hats]

10 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

what about the thousands of small business owners employing under 10 employees ?? paternity leave , leave for a cold, in this life learn to look after yourself and not expect everyone else to look after you. I was brought up to look after number one as no fucker else will do it for you.. and they didn't' been through labour and tory governments 

Instead of whinging about how little benefit you get try doing what I did and find work it's not that hard, admittedly you might have to do the low paid jobs but from them you can build..far too many want everyone to pay for them.. no solution apart from work and working is what gets results simples ..if I can do it as a single female with 2 small children then anyone can 

 

I was brought up to look after those most in need. That kindness was a virtue and that a community that looks out for one another is a happier, stronger community.

Edited July 10, 2017 by stuartbert two hats

[frostypaw]

I'd like to ask where the hell this class war rich vs poor thing has come from?

There are wealthy people in Labour, and people of the upper class - these things have NEVER been a problem.

It's what people choose to do with their money and how they behave that's the problem - it's perfectly possible to be a good wealthy left wing person who treats their employees well, it's perfectly possible to barely have 2p to rub together and be a bonkers right winger who is prejudiced about everyone

This is a distraction to divide people - the actual issue here is ME first, or US first - that's it isn't it? Not more fighting with each other for sure