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Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury


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1 minute ago, Mash011 said:

Get out with this, the Labour policy is to scrap fees, not to scrap existing debt. There is an 'ambition' to eventually scrap the debt but it has never been a policy. And a large but unclear amount of that debt isnt getting paid back anyway, as said in the article you've linked 'the majority of graduates will never pay off their whole student loan debt before it is wiped off 30 years after their graduation'. Get yer facts straight. 

I want a refund on the 15,000 I paid back to the SLC :).

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11 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

What we should do is put fees up even more then there's no way anyone can change things back!

So much of that article isn't great 

Quote

Vieru said: “These figures show how the cost of education has been systematically shifted on to the backs of individual graduates, in debt that will never be repaid.

“These figures raise serious questions about whether these loans are the best way to fund our education system and what’s best for the sector, taxpayers and the public.”

 

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11 minutes ago, MadScientist said:

Why do tories think people have to tolerate their BS? Perhaps people have been more tolerant of tories in the past when they hadn't implemented policies that have deeply hurt and literally killed people. 

If you want to know why people aren't happy with tories and why people have been particularly vocal about it at Glastonbury this year look at things like Grenfell tower, literally hundreds of people (despite what media is saying) died in that building as a direct result of tory policy, cuts and underfunding. If that isn't enough surviving victims are being forced out of London.

It's tories that are intolerant and it's the poor they wont tolerate. To act like it's lefties that are intolerant is just naive. Lefties are just reacting to socioeconomic pressure as the bulk of people on the left are generally young and working class. Tories are extremely exclusionary and if you're feeling a bit left out because people are not just lying down and accepting manslaughter and abuse from the government then boohoo.

The political sphere isn't neutral and never has been and nor should it be. Go to glastonbury if you enjoy it but don't start complaining about the politics that have been there since 1970. You wouldn't see me turning up to a tory gala and complaining when people refused to entertain the idea of socialism. 

Sorry but this is straight up bullshit. It's really not the Tories fault that Grenfell Tower happened, it's a tragedy that pretty much everybody has played a part in and trying to blame it on the government is simply wrong.

Oh look some class warfare, let's play a game, and see if you can see the similarities. It's labour that are intolerant, and it's the rich they won't tolerate. To act like it's the Tories that are intolerant is just naive. Tories are just reacting to the continued pressure placed on businesses that make it harder than ever to make it your own way with your own business. Labour are extremely exclusionary and if you're feeling a bit left out because people actually want to make something of themselves and aren't just lying down accepting government benefits then boohoo. 

See you can spin it both ways and it's simply a load of bullshit.

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2 minutes ago, Dave_c said:

I don't really have a strong political view or interest but what I take from it is that all parties promise the moon on a stick and don't deliver it. They also don't, as far as I can tell, publicly advertise the cuts necessary in other areas to deliver their policies, so it's all a load of bollocks for the most part in my opinion.

Regarding the initial question, of course Tories are welcome at Glastonbury, but they can't moan about the political message and views of the festival as it's pretty evident before said Tories even buy a ticket. 

I do have an interest in politics but I have not voted for the reasons you've listed. Survived a few of our 'leaders' during my time, David Blair or Tony Cameron, whichever way round you put their names i'm sure they were twins or maybe the same person. Liars through and through. I want a political leader of a political party that answers with a truthful YES or NO. I realise it's a lot to ask so may carry on researching the greens and hope they convince me to use my vote.

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1 minute ago, Mash011 said:

Obviously not, could you explain again why it's actually really hard to have lots of money?

You could've directed your question  to the people on stage when Corbyn gave his speech.Plenty of money up there, they'd know.

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Just now, Mash011 said:

Obviously not, could you explain again why it's actually really hard to have lots of money?

The point was to show that from either side of the fence you're sitting on you can make the same bullshit class warfare arguments that simply aren't true.

Regardless it's actually really really hard to get lots of money, and really really hard to keep that money as it requires outrageous number of hours worked whilst having the whole responsibility of the business laid on the shoulders of the person 'getting rich' from making sure they pass compliance, to making sure the tax is done correctly, to making sure their employees are all paid in full and on time (remember business people pay their employees before themselves ALWAYS) and a myriad of other things. There's a reason most businesses fail, and that's because it's outrageously difficult to actually make it work, and then lets say you even have some moderate success, it's equally hard, if not harder keeping that success, as, for example say you've opened up a new niche in the market, well your success is a massive flag to other ambitious people that there is money to be made here, so more people enter your part of the market, often hungrier and more efficient than you are.

The 'rich' have their own problems and challenges, they're just a different from the 'poor'.

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1 minute ago, KingPin said:

The point was to show that from either side of the fence you're sitting on you can make the same bullshit class warfare arguments that simply aren't true.

Regardless it's actually really really hard to get lots of money, and really really hard to keep that money as it requires outrageous number of hours worked whilst having the whole responsibility of the business laid on the shoulders of the person 'getting rich' from making sure they pass compliance, to making sure the tax is done correctly, to making sure their employees are all paid in full and on time (remember business people pay their employees before themselves ALWAYS) and a myriad of other things. There's a reason most businesses fail, and that's because it's outrageously difficult to actually make it work, and then lets say you even have some moderate success, it's equally hard, if not harder keeping that success, as, for example say you've opened up a new niche in the market, well your success is a massive flag to other ambitious people that there is money to be made here, so more people enter your part of the market, often hungrier and more efficient than you are.

The 'rich' have their own problems and challenges, they're just a different from the 'poor'.

Ah yes I forgot we're living in a post-class society where all rich people are fantasy Randian genius entrepreneurs who just work really really hard. 

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25 minutes ago, MadScientist said:

look at things like Grenfell tower, literally hundreds of people (despite what media is saying) died in that building as a direct result of tory policy, cuts and underfunding

Not really factual. Think you could blame Building Regulations before any political party. I don't know what Government was in charge when the tower was built. Who was running the country when they decided not to fit sprinklers. Who had the vote when they decided that one stairwell was sufficient still. etc etc To many issues just to lay the blame on the most recent Government. Tory Gov still shit but not to blame for this,. I Hope they pay attention and upgrade all buildings that require it asap and re home all that need it NOW.

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6 minutes ago, KingPin said:

The point was to show that from either side of the fence you're sitting on you can make the same bullshit class warfare arguments that simply aren't true.

Regardless it's actually really really hard to get lots of money, and really really hard to keep that money as it requires outrageous number of hours worked whilst having the whole responsibility of the business laid on the shoulders of the person 'getting rich' from making sure they pass compliance, to making sure the tax is done correctly, to making sure their employees are all paid in full and on time (remember business people pay their employees before themselves ALWAYS) and a myriad of other things. There's a reason most businesses fail, and that's because it's outrageously difficult to actually make it work, and then lets say you even have some moderate success, it's equally hard, if not harder keeping that success, as, for example say you've opened up a new niche in the market, well your success is a massive flag to other ambitious people that there is money to be made here, so more people enter your part of the market, often hungrier and more efficient than you are.

The 'rich' have their own problems and challenges, they're just a different from the 'poor'.

Even disregarding the numerous faults in this post, I'd much rather have the 'challenge' of having to pay workers on time(!) than be unable to eat (which is the position I'd currently be in if I wasn't fortunate enough to have generous parents).

Edited by Zac Quinn
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2 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Even disregarding the numerous faults in this post, I'd much rather have the 'challenge' of having to pay workers on time(!) than being unable to eat.

Having been in situation where we were almost unable to eat, to being in situation now employing people, I can confirm for me the latter is preferable.

 

However I have more sleepless nights now and more stress worrying about others depending on the business than I did about family depending on me trying to find food to put on the table. I'm guessing that's the point being made

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3 minutes ago, Mash011 said:

Ah yes I forgot we're living in a post-class society where all rich people are fantasy Randian genius entrepreneurs who just work really really hard. 

Most work a lot harder than those up on stage whom you pay a lot of money to watch at Glastonbury and other gigs you no doubt attend. 

It's not clear cut, a lot of rich people have worked their arses off for their successes, and not all rich people are Tories either. If there is no financial reward for hard work, would we stifle innovation, would people just do enough? 

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Just now, Dave_c said:

Most work a lot harder than those up on stage whom you pay a lot of money to watch at Glastonbury and other gigs you no doubt attend. 

It's not clear cut, a lot of rich people have worked their arses off for their successes, and not all rich people are Tories either. If there is no financial reward for hard work, would we stifle innovation, would people just do enough? 

Forgive me if my sympathies are a little more with the starving nurses (don't need me to run through how hard they work do you?) than the wealthy business owners.

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5 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Even disregarding the numerous faults in this post, I'd much rather have the 'challenge' of having to pay workers on time(!) than be unable to eat (which is the position I'd currently be in if I wasn't fortunate enough to have generous parents).

I'm not saying that it's not the better challenge, it is, but to disregard all the risk the (so called) rich have to take on to succeed because other people in society are vulnerable is simply wrong IMO. 

Also I really don't understand the hate towards the rich, surely as a society we want more and more people to succeed and be 'rich' (whatever rich is, I personally consider 99.9% of the UK population to be outrageously rich, as we're not living in mud huts barely getting a full meal a week whilst the insect feast on us and parts of you're family die every year from starvation/dehydration/exposure/easily curable diseases etc.) and the more 'rich' people there from succeeding in creating a business there are the less people there are to be unemployed, which eventually leads to wage growth as labor becomes more scarce (the major reason to oppose immigration into this country at the moment, it about time the British public got a pay rise).

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3 minutes ago, Mash011 said:

Forgive me if my sympathies are a little more with the starving nurses (don't need me to run through how hard they work do you?) than the wealthy business owners.

Not all (most) business owners are wealthy or rich. In fact almost nobody in this country is wealthy, but that's beside the point.

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3 minutes ago, Mash011 said:

Forgive me if my sympathies are a little more with the starving nurses (don't need me to run through how hard they work do you?) than the wealthy business owners.

Nurses do a very difficult job putting up with a lot of stress but they're not starving.Why would you post something so daft?

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2 minutes ago, Mash011 said:

Forgive me if my sympathies are a little more with the starving nurses (don't need me to run through how hard they work do you?) than the wealthy business owners.

I'm just making an observation. And I am aware of how hard Nurses work and it's an utter disgrace what they get paid for the work they do. Spending less money on arms and fighting wars we don't belong in is much more fruitful than taxing the 'rich'. Do CEOs deserve the massive salaries and bonuses they receive for what they do? Probably not. Do footballers deserve the fortunes they earn? Absolutely not. Does a hard working man/woman who has built a business from scratch and takes home £200,000 a year deserve it, absolutely so. As said, it's not clear cut.

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10 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

80% tax rate for anyone earning over £500k pa, please. Nobody needs that much money and I'm sick to death of this country being held to ransom by rich people 'threatening' to take their business elsewhere when we all know they wouldn't go through with it.

That's a nice idea in principle but it wouldn't work and would be massively counterproductive. You may feel nobody needs that much money, but there aren't that many people who earn that much who would agree with you and they simply wouldn't tolerate it. They'd up sticks so we'd lose all the tax revenue from them, but more importantly the companies employing them would up sticks too, because they wouldn't be able to attract suitable staff because of the high rate tax. I think it's well proven there is a sweet spot for tax rates and it's much lower than 80%.

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