pink_triangle Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 hours ago, kaosmark2 said: I agree, it's much more about reading the game and positioning and anticipation, but I don't think it's changed dramatically in the last 3-5 years, when there was, IMO, a much higher standard of doing so. None of the premiership defenders would be in my discussion for the best of the last 30 (my time as a football fan) years. I think peak kompany would be part of the discussion, but not the last couple of years version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jass Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 hours ago, kaosmark2 said: I agree, it's much more about reading the game and positioning and anticipation, but I don't think it's changed dramatically in the last 3-5 years, when there was, IMO, a much higher standard of doing so. Defending should always be about reading the game and anticipation. Players like Maldini and Baresi are considered amongst the best ever because they rarely had to make a tackle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaosmark2 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 Agree with both of the above comments. Still think that while the dramatic tackle has gone out of the game, the quality of top defenders in the Prem has deteriorated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 13 hours ago, pink_triangle said: Spurs haven't played real madrid over 2 legs, 2 group matches is a completely different thing. pedant. It's still the case that no one normally gets the better of Madrid over 2 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 11 hours ago, TheGayTent said: You could argue that records like that being set proves it... it can make an argument for weak defences, but record scoring and record winning against that would still indicate that at the front end of teams things are better than average - which sums up as teams being average, and not the crap that woody said. But when also you throw in Chumps results, it hard to stay with the idea of average and not better than average ... tho again, that might be cos Europe is weaker too; which still leaves english footie around average. To me, the facts in all directions are MUCH more suggestive of average or better-than-average than they are of poorer-than-average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 17 minutes ago, eFestivals said: pedant. It's still the case that no one normally gets the better of Madrid over 2 games. My point being that getting the better over 2 group matches is very different to doing it in the knockouts. One automatically knocks the losing team out, the other doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 1 minute ago, pink_triangle said: My point being that getting the better over 2 group matches is very different to doing it in the knockouts. One automatically knocks the losing team out, the other doesn't. it might be different, but so is Real getting bettered by any team over two games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGayTent Posted December 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 20 minutes ago, eFestivals said: it can make an argument for weak defences, but record scoring and record winning against that would still indicate that at the front end of teams things are better than average It could just mean in an attacking sense, teams are no better and no worse than before. But defences are shit. Your subjective conclusion isn't the only conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 41 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: Your subjective conclusion isn't the only conclusion. I agree. Anyone can go with anything they like. But all of the facts put together are very suggestive of english footie being at-least no worse than ever, unless the levels of football all round the world have crashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGayTent Posted December 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, eFestivals said: I agree. Anyone can go with anything they like. Yes. Quote But all of the facts put together are very suggestive of english footie being at-least no worse than ever, unless the levels of football all round the world have crashed. Edited December 15, 2017 by TheGayTent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 15 minutes ago, TheGayTent said: So go on then, tell me how they're not suggestive of that - when using all of the available benchmarks (rather than being selective with them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooderson Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 15 hours ago, TheGayTent said: You could argue that records like that being set proves it... This is my point also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 34 minutes ago, Wooderson said: This is my point also. But not when you measure against Chumps teams. Those chumps teams might have fallen as well of course, but they'd have had to fallen a hell of a long way to have fallen below english footie while english footie was also at it's worst ever. They'd have to be lots of different things all align for that to have happened. It could have happened. But much more likely is the far simpler one thing of English footie not being the worst ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, eFestivals said: But much more likely is the far simpler one thing of English footie not being the worst ever. I think after a few poor years the English teams have risen to a (relatively) average level. I think Leicester winning the title was largely due to the premiership levels falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooderson Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 A financially doped to the gills Man City side run away with it. The rest are either the same (Utd) or slightly worse (Chelsea/Spurs). More than half the league are bottom feeders. Im not interested in the Champions League. Past decade English sides have been bang average in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdvruxk Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 50 minutes ago, Wooderson said: A financially doped to the gills Man City side run away with it. The rest are either the same (Utd) or slightly worse (Chelsea/Spurs). More than half the league are bottom feeders. Im not interested in the Champions League. Past decade English sides have been bang average in that. So they've been better than bang average in this years CL so far? Considering the success in the groups. I'd also argue that United have improved upon last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nal Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 1 hour ago, sdvruxk said: So they've been better than bang average in this years CL so far? Considering the success in the groups. I'd also argue that United have improved upon last season. Utd have also been in 3 Champions League finals in the last decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Nal said: Utd have also been in 3 Champions League finals in the last decade. yeah, but today's Utd are more dull than LvG's Utd. I know that because LvG told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 Well done to Burnley this season so far. Top 7 on a TINY wage bill. Hope they carry on like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nal Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, eFestivals said: yeah, but today's Utd are more dull than LvG's Utd. I know that because LvG told me. Hes a bitter man at times. Time heals all wounds. LVGs football was appallingly bad. Jose averaging 2.5 goals a game in all comps. That would've been a good shots per game stat for Louis. 9 minutes ago, zahidf said: Well done to Burnley this season so far. Top 7 on a TINY wage bill. Hope they carry on like this Yep amazing really. Think they'll drop off but still in with a good shout for the Europa places. City vs Spurs a biggie this weekend. Stoke vs West Ham too. Big games for Hughes coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 28 minutes ago, zahidf said: Well done to Burnley this season so far. Top 7 on a TINY wage bill. Hope they carry on like this yep. And it shows what you can get if a club isn't too sack-happy, and builds and works to a plan. (Also see Southampton till a few years ago) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 56 minutes ago, eFestivals said: yep. And it shows what you can get if a club isn't too sack-happy, and builds and works to a plan. (Also see Southampton till a few years ago) tbf to southampton pottechino and koeman left. i dont think sotton wanted them to go Considering how well Puel is doing at lecister, sacking him this year was a mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 4 hours ago, sdvruxk said: So they've been better than bang average in this years CL so far? Considering the success in the groups. I'd also argue that United have improved upon last season. I would say 4 first place and 1 second is about par for resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdvruxk Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 1 hour ago, pink_triangle said: I would say 4 first place and 1 second is about par for resources. Yet it's an improvement on recent years, which is the point of discussion. Is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 1 hour ago, sdvruxk said: Yet it's an improvement on recent years, which is the point of discussion. Is it not? I have already said I think Liverpool, man u and man c have improved this season while Arsenal, spurs and chelsea probably haven't in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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