Just a thought for those involved in the London fire

[CeriG]

This has made me feel awful waking up to this today. it's a 120 apartment with up to 600 residents there including families with children. I feel absolutely heart broken that people including children will have lost their lives in that utterly horrific way :-(

[guypjfreak]

Nightmare.. Knock them down build them safe houses... RIP to the ones that haven't made it.. 

[squirrelarmy]

3 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

it was only renovated last year...what the hell went wrong for it too catch so quickly 

Probably renovated cheaply, not using fireproof materials, poor alarm system. Additional fire escape not installed. From reports I've seen there was instructions within the flats to stay inside in event of a fire. 

Modern fire alarm systems have to withstand for at least an hour to enable evacuation. Once a fire of this size has got hold though, no amount of fire protection can withstand it but the alarm should have been raised long before the fire got to a critical level.

Those old buildings were not designed safely and to renovate them to a standard to comply with modern regulations takes considerable investment. 

I do expect some reviews of all similar buildings to happen after the inquest, possibly even new changes to the fire regulations too.

[babyblade41]

1 minute ago, squirrelarmy said:

Probably renovated cheaply, not using fireproof materials, poor alarm system. Additional fire escape not installed. From reports I've seen there was instructions within the flats to stay inside in event of a fire. 

Modern fire alarm systems have to withstand for at least an hour to enable evacuation. Once a fire of this size has got hold though, no amount of fire protection can withstand it but the alarm should have been raised long before the fire got to a critical level.

Those old buildings were not designed safely and to renovate them to a standard to comply with modern regulations takes considerable investment. 

I do expect some reviews of all similar buildings to happen after the inquest, possibly even new changes to the fire regulations too.

Lets hope this is a very tragic learning curve and nothing like this can ever happen again 

[MilkyJoe]

5 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

it was only renovated last year...what the hell went wrong for it too catch so quickly 

There was something on the news before if I read it right that there was some sort of temporary wooden covers over part of it. Some of the residents had already voiced concerns. Simply unimaginable being caught up in that and as horrible as it might sound I hope those that lost their lives did so through smoke inhalation and not fire.

[Zoo Music Girl]

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/grenfellfamilies

[babyblade41]

Just now, MilkyJoe said:

There was something on the news before if I read it right that there was some sort of temporary wooden covers over part of it. Some of the residents had already voiced concerns. Simply unimaginable being caught up in that and as horrible as it might sound I hope those that lost their lives did so through smoke inhalation and not fire.

I would imagine the smoke will always get you first... I for one sincerely hope that was the case ... the other scenario just doesn't bear thinking about 

[babyblade41]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/grenfellfamilies

well done for finding it out 

[Zoo Music Girl]

4 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

well done for finding it out 

Someone else sent it to me! But I'm sure there will be more than one around.

[babyblade41]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Someone else sent it to me! But I'm sure there will be more than one around.

well thanks for passing it on, we /I am grateful 

[Zoo Music Girl]

7 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

well thanks for passing it on, we /I am grateful 

No worries

Donating feels like the least I can do. Those poor people.

[babyblade41]

1 hour ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

No worries

Donating feels like the least I can do. Those poor people.

wish we could do more but it's a start at least 

[MissC]

Edited due to new info

Edited June 14, 2017 by MissC
Change of info

[babyblade41]

some news reports stating it was a faulty fridge freezer 

[Ommadawn]

Unfortunate that Harriet Harman is suggesting on the World at One that the lack of a sprinkler system was as a result of government cuts. There's a time and a place for making political points and this is neither.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Ommadawn

[somecoolusername]

1 hour ago, Ommadawn said:

Unfortunate that Harriet Harman is suggesting on the World at One that the lack of a sprinkler system was as a result of government cuts. There's a time and a place for making political points and this is neither.

It's exactly the time, when public attention is on the issue. It seems that residents had been raising the building's structural issues for a number of years, to no avail.

Politics = people's lives. When it's done wrong tragic, preventable events occur

[babyblade41]

1 hour ago, Ommadawn said:

Unfortunate that Harriet Harman is suggesting on the World at One that the lack of a sprinkler system was as a result of government cuts. There's a time and a place for making political points and this is neither.

Yes I heard that... one of the engineers said on sky news that this would possibly have made it worse... but he didn't know the cause or where it started just stating that people shouldn't jump straight to conclusions for blame 

[Waapster]

1 hour ago, Ommadawn said:

Unfortunate that Harriet Harman is suggesting on the World at One that the lack of a sprinkler system was as a result of government cuts. There's a time and a place for making political points and this is neither.

This is precisely the time if its true. Theresa May's new Chief of Staff was the last housing minister and I just read a claim that he didn't follow up on a review of fire safety following the fire at Lakenal House in Peckham which killed six people. Politicians deciding on how much money to spend on fire safety for social housing tenants is political. People dying as a result of those decisions is political.

[squirrelarmy]

Sprinklers wouldn't have helped here. They would only be in the access lobbies between the flats. They would have made the floor slippery underfoot and made egress from the building more dangerous. 

The problem seems to have been caused by the cladding. Those buildings are made from cast concrete. The fact that the building is still standing shows how strongly put together they are. Concrete is also an effective fire break. This is also why the advice for fires in these type of building is to stay put unless near an affected zone,

When the fire breached a window and spread to the cladding and neighbouring flats the problems got worse. 

[phillyfaddle]

It is so horrific, I can't begin to imagine the suffering of those poor people. The awful thing is, BBC have just reported that the Grenfell Tower residents' association have been complaining about safety issues at the block of flats for years and were just arrogantly dismissed. Not scoring any political points here whatsoever, but what the guy from the association has to say is a damning indictment of both the landlords and Kensington & Chelsea Council, I'm afraid. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40271723

 

[phillyfaddle]

And a link to info on what we can do to help: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/40272565/grenfell-tower-fire-this-is-what-you-can-do-to-help

[pie_and_a_pint]

Horrifying. I grew up in a tower block which frequently had small fires in the bins and stairwells and sometimes in other people's flats. Mum and I lived on the 4th floor and were always lucky enough to get out and be safe, but I still remember, 30 years later, the smell of the fires lingering in the stairwell or the lifts and the horror of having to climb up the stairs in complete darkness, the walls black with smoke damage and no lights because they'd blown out.

To this day I hate high-rise buildings and I avoid lifts and concrete stairwells where I possibly can. The poor people involved in this inferno will never, ever forget what they've been throigh. I only hope the council rehouses them close to home to retain what seems to have been a close and well-knit community.

[Ommadawn]

1 hour ago, somecoolusername said:

It's exactly the time, when public attention is on the issue. It seems that residents had been raising the building's structural issues for a number of years, to no avail.

Politics = people's lives. When it's done wrong tragic, preventable events occur

The tower was built in 1974. There's been a number of Labour governments in power since then. Still no sprinkler systems installed so why did she blame the fire on this government's cuts?

[somecoolusername]

9 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

The tower was built in 1974. There's been a number of Labour governments in power since then. Still no sprinkler systems installed so why did she blame the fire on this government's cuts?

I don't know about sprinklers. It seems that residents had many more structural concerns than just sprinklers. Concerns that were ignored for a number of years leading up to an unknown number of tragic and unnecessary deaths.

 

[russycarps]

1 hour ago, pie_and_a_pint said:

To this day I hate high-rise buildings and I avoid lifts and concrete stairwells where I possibly can. The poor people involved in this inferno will never, ever forget what they've been throigh. I only hope the council rehouses them close to home to retain what seems to have been a close and well-knit community.

Some hope. It's a tory council. The poor sods will be lucky if they're rehoused within the M25. That area is prime real estate.