What do live performance DJ's actually do on stage?

[simian_mobile_mushrooms]

51 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

there's only two guys in GA, and they DJ together, playing their own and others' records.  when they play as a band, they bring in other musicians to recreate their own songs.

 

honestly i thought this topic belonged to 30 years ago, i'm a tad surprised it's rearing its head in 2017 

Tbh I'm utterly clueless when it comes to stuff like this. I like dancing to the DJs when they're on, but I really haven't got when it comes to bands or guys doing 'DJ' sets instead of what is their normal set. It's like Mike Skinner. He's just under his own name when he DJ's instead of saying The Streets (DJ set) on the line up. I'm not trying to be some old fart who think it's not music, I just really don't know

[stuartbert two hats]

5 minutes ago, musky said:

Indeed it won't. It's all down to authenticity - what people consider genuine and 'real'.

The problem is that the real deal doesn't actually exist as such, it's a social construct.

To pick up on this, I'm a (now very infrequent) electronic musician. I've never played live, because other than for a very brief period, there was no 'live' aspect to my music, so it would have just been pressing play on a laptop. My music had no performance, just lots of instruments painstakingly programmed over  (typically) a couple of weeks. Even the filter tweaks were often programmed by drawing a line, not by recording a live knob tweak. To play my music really live would have meant assembling a team of maybe 10 incredibly talented musicians to reproduce the track. 

And once you'd done that, what would you have? A cover version. That's not authentic.

[Dave_c]

 

[Matt - Ed Banger Records]

5 minutes ago, Slugworth said:

No one has mentioned Daft Punks Alive tour yet? As amazing as it was i struggle to find a show that is different from another. I have no doubt they were doing something up there but apart from playing with a few effects i'd say it was a press play and go job. Would love it if i was wrong just seems mad, with how in demand they are, if thats all we were getting.

Daft Punk did a fair amount in terms of tweaks etc but it was largely an Ableton set, the Alive '97 setup was far more 'live' that 2007. 

[Kashkin]

On the subject of bands using backing tracks, this is a good, balanced article:

http://www.qthemusic.com/910/guest-column-backing-tracks-killing-live-music-public-service-broadcasting/

Also 'A bit more track in the monitor' by Beans on Toast is a great song on the topic.

[eastynh]

2 minutes ago, Slugworth said:

No one has mentioned Daft Punks Alive tour yet? As amazing as it was i struggle to find a show that is different from another. I have no doubt they were doing something up there but apart from playing with a few effects i'd say it was a press play and go job. Would love it if i was wrong just seems mad, with how in demand they are, if thats all we were getting.

That's all you get mate because that's all that people want. The likes of us on here are music nerds, we want to know the ins and outs of everything. Some nerds go too far and end up snobs. Yet most people just go out to enjoy themselves and hear the tunes they love. Most people are not arsed that Daft Punk used a 4 pole high pass filater on the live version of one more time. 

I went and seen Calvin Harris at the MEN a few years ago, he did not do a lot yet the atmosphere was incredible and everyone was going mental. If a musician/dj/performer ebables people to enjoy themselves then fair play to them, I could not care less how they do it.

[Slugworth]

1 minute ago, Matt - Ed Banger Records said:

Daft Punk did a fair amount in terms of tweaks etc but it was largely an Ableton set, the Alive '97 setup was far more 'live' that 2007. 

I've seen that photo before. Do you think they used all of that set-up? 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, simian_mobile_mushrooms said:

Tbh I'm utterly clueless when it comes to stuff like this. I like dancing to the DJs when they're on, but I really haven't got when it comes to bands or guys doing 'DJ' sets instead of what is their normal set. It's like Mike Skinner. He's just under his own name when he DJ's instead of saying The Streets (DJ set) on the line up. I'm not trying to be some old fart who think it's not music, I just really don't know

I'd rather have that than one of those 'Hot Chip DJ' sets, when it's nothing of the sort - usually just one or two members of the band DJing. Much more honest to state the names of the DJs.

It's not The Streets. That's a band. It's Mike Skinner playing records. No more The Streets than Gorillaz are Blur. Different thing.

[Junglist1981]

15 minutes ago, musky said:

Indeed it won't. It's all down to authenticity - what people consider genuine and 'real'.

The problem is that the real deal doesn't actually exist as such, it's a social construct. So those who don't like a lack of virtuosity (or at least the right kind of virtuosity) and therefore musicianship, don't consider DJs musicians or music makers. The problem isn't with the individual, or even with the way the music is made, it's with peoples' perceptions of what they consider authentic.

All kinds of music gets caught up in this. The likes of Westlife or One Direction gets caught up in this, as they don't write their material, have no obvious musical skills and weren't formed organically. Yet for countless teenage girls they are absolutely real pop stars, in a way that say Radiohead could never be - they look good, they can dance, sing songs that have meaning to their lives and have hit after hit.

We'll never convince anyone that acts that are so different have equal worth. It really is like comparing chalk with cheese when your yardstick for it's worth is how well it writes on a blackboard and someone else's is its  utility in catching mice.

Like it. Good example of this from my POV - De La Soul 

The definitive traditional hip hop act right, 2 MCs and a DJ.

All that Maseo is doing on the decks, at best, is looping a break. So that's pretty much 2 guys rapping over a backing track.

When they last played the Pyramid in 2013 (?) they brought a band with them and did a lot of thier tracks 'live' with a drummer and a horn section etc.

However, by far the best part of the set for me is when they sent the band off for a couple of tunes and took it back to just the 2 mcs and a DJ setup. For their particular thing (hugely sample orientated) it just works so much better, it had a lot more energy and it felt more authentic. I was a bit gutted when the band came back out.

So I guess the 'proper' way of doing things varies from act to act, and the most important thing is how the crowd receives it.

Back to Underworld, from the footage it looks like everyone who saw them on WH last year though it was excellent, so ultimately does it matter that all they were doing is pressing play and hitting a few chords?

[Jugtanion]

If it's Annie Nightingale, she sort of swings off the front of the booth, or at least she was doing that on the Glade stage a couple of years ago for her midnight set

Edited May 30, 2017 by Jugtanion

[Matt - Ed Banger Records]

Just now, Slugworth said:

I've seen that photo before. Do you think they used all of that set-up? 

I would imagine so, although largely just as midi triggers etc, and for filters and modulating the individual elements to the tracks, they would also be using the various pieces of kit to manipulate the various samples on the fly. 

[musky]

4 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

To pick up on this, I'm a (now very infrequent) electronic musician. I've never played live, because other than for a very brief period, there was no 'live' aspect to my music, so it would have just been pressing play on a laptop. My music had no performance, just lots of instruments painstakingly programmed over  (typically) a couple of weeks. Even the filter tweaks were often programmed by drawing a line, not by recording a live knob tweak. To play my music really live would have meant assembling a team of maybe 10 incredibly talented musicians to reproduce the track. 

And once you'd done that, what would you have? A cover version. That's not authentic.

That would depend on your definition of authentic Stuart.

What you were creating was exactly what every musician does, using the tools to hand to try to realise your vision of a musical work. Such a shame that some people prefer to judge the creative process rather than the end result.

[eastynh]

5 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I'd rather have that than one of those 'Hot Chip DJ' sets, when it's nothing of the sort - usually just one or two members of the band DJing. Much more honest to state the names of the DJs.

It's not The Streets. That's a band. It's Mike Skinner playing records. No more The Streets than Gorillaz are Blur. Different thing.

They can charge more money for their sets and it is probably more appealing for the promoter to have the Hot Chip label on their flyer.

Edited May 30, 2017 by eastynh

[stuartbert two hats]

10 minutes ago, Matt - Ed Banger Records said:

Daft Punk did a fair amount in terms of tweaks etc but it was largely an Ableton set, the Alive '97 setup was far more 'live' that 2007. 

The Alive 2007 is a very good example. They essentially produced a whole new album mashing up their own tracks with a tiny bit of new instrumentation and took it on the road, very much on the "pressing play" end of the spectrum from a performance point of view.

But, what I want from live music is to hear familiar music, but sounding different. I want to hear what I know, but I still want to be surprised. I want to feel as if anything could happen at any time.  Although I never saw them on that tour, the first time I heard the CD, I had those feelings in spades. Even if it sounded exactly the same on every date of the tour, for anyone in the crowd it must have been utterly thrilling in a way only live music can be. Even if it wasn't live at all.

[musky]

11 minutes ago, Junglist1981 said:

Like it. Good example of this from my POV - De La Soul 

The definitive traditional hip hop act right, 2 MCs and a DJ.

All that Maseo is doing on the decks, at best, is looping a break. So that's pretty much 2 guys rapping over a backing track.

When they last played the Pyramid in 2013 (?) they brought a band with them and did a lot of thier tracks 'live' with a drummer and a horn section etc.

However, by far the best part of the set for me is when they sent the band off for a couple of tunes and took it back to just the 2 mcs and a DJ setup. For their particular thing (hugely sample orientated) it just works so much better, it had a lot more energy and it felt more authentic. I was a bit gutted when the band came back out.

So I guess the 'proper' way of doing things varies from act to act, and the most important thing is how the crowd receives it.

Back to Underworld, from the footage it looks like everyone who saw them on WH last year though it was excellent, so ultimately does it matter that all they were doing is pressing play and hitting a few chords?

I wasn't there for that, but I'm right with you on that. For me nowadays (and it wasn't always so) is what happens right there at that moment in time is what matters. If that means someone pressing play and pumping their fist in the air then so be it.

[simian_mobile_mushrooms]

2 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

The Alive 2007 is a very good example. They essentially produced a whole new album mashing up their own tracks with a tiny bit of new instrumentation and took it on the road, very much on the "pressing play" end of the spectrum from a performance point of view.

But, what I want from live music is to hear familiar music, but sounding different. I want to hear what I know, but I still want to be surprised. I want to feel as if anything could happen at any time.  Although I never saw them on that tour, the first time I heard the CD, I had those feelings in spades. Even if it sounded exactly the same on every date of the tour, for anyone in the crowd it must have been utterly thrilling in a way only live music can be. Even if it wasn't live at all.

That's kinda what I was asking, is the Groove Armada DJ set going to be them playing a remixed or slightly different set of their own muisc or are they just playing random stuff that they think is good from other people?

[stuartbert two hats]

16 minutes ago, musky said:

That would depend on your definition of authentic Stuart.

What you were creating was exactly what every musician does, using the tools to hand to try to realise your vision of a musical work. Such a shame that some people prefer to judge the creative process rather than the end result.

What I did was authentic enough, I've no worries there. But if I'd took it on the road with a live band, it would have been a fake. Or at least it wouldn't have reflected the processes involved in the creation in any way.

[stuartbert two hats]

5 minutes ago, simian_mobile_mushrooms said:

That's kinda what I was asking, is the Groove Armada DJ set going to be them playing a remixed or slightly different set of their own muisc or are they just playing random stuff that they think is good from other people?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think they mainly play other people's tunes, although I'm sure they'll drop in some of their own, provided they fit the set.

There are acts like Fatboy Slim where the (DJ) after the billing would only chance his act to the point where he'd play other people's records as well as his own.

[Slugworth]

12 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

The Alive 2007 is a very good example. They essentially produced a whole new album mashing up their own tracks with a tiny bit of new instrumentation and took it on the road, very much on the "pressing play" end of the spectrum from a performance point of view.

But, what I want from live music is to hear familiar music, but sounding different. I want to hear what I know, but I still want to be surprised. I want to feel as if anything could happen at any time.  Although I never saw them on that tour, the first time I heard the CD, I had those feelings in spades. Even if it sounded exactly the same on every date of the tour, for anyone in the crowd it must have been utterly thrilling in a way only live music can be. Even if it wasn't live at all.

I absolutely agree with all of this and it was, imho, the best mashup I've heard to date. I've said it before, the best gig experience i've had. I'm not knocking them at all. Was just using it as an example to the OP.

[musky]

3 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

What I did was authentic enough, I've no worries there. But if I'd took it on the road with a live band, it would have been a fake. Or at least it wouldn't have reflected the processes involved in the creation in any way.

It was the original work, which would certainly make it the the authentic work for many. But authenticity means different things to different people, and the consensus has a habit of shifting over time.
 

When I was studying this stuff there was very little written about popular music but reams about authenticity in classical music. It all seemed to concentrate of finding really crap old instruments and musicians that couldn't play very well.

[stuartbert two hats]

7 minutes ago, musky said:

It was the original work, which would certainly make it the the authentic work for many. But authenticity means different things to different people, and the consensus has a habit of shifting over time.
 

When I was studying this stuff there was very little written about popular music but reams about authenticity in classical music. It all seemed to concentrate of finding really crap old instruments and musicians that couldn't play very well.

The original work was programmed. The authentic version of it is a .wav file.

[slipmatt]

DJ of 15 years here and tried to bite my lip but HAD to get involved. There is a huge difference between a DJ playing - and a DJ who has produced for years then moving to the next level of performing 'live'.

Take Sasha (on the line up for Glasto, but in his DJ form). He recently embarked on a MAMMOTH project to perform at the Barbican - fully live, a selection of his back catalogue.

Not a computer in site but all electronic music. Guest vocalists, string section, keys - the lot. 

This is a DJ doing 'live' properly. EPIC stuff.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by slipmatt

[bennyhana22]

3 hours ago, Matt42 said:

This is an awful thread 

^This

Whilst of course people should talk about anything they want, this is one of those classic threads in which there will be pre, and misconceptions that will be almost impossible to change, and so a vociferous attempt to do so becomes futile and smack of methinks he/she doth protest too much.

Bottom line is that there are DJs/Producers who make extraordinary music whilst they are playing live. But most casual dance music attendees will never see that.

Anyway, as you were!

Ben

[stuartbert two hats]

10 minutes ago, slipmatt said:

DJ of 15 years here and tried to bite my lip but HAD to get involved. There is a huge difference between a DJ playing - and a DJ who has produced for years then moving to the next level of performing 'live'.

Take Sasha (on the line up for Glasto, but in his DJ form). He recently embarked on a MAMMOTH project to perform at the Barbican - fully live, a selection of his back catalogue.

Not a computer in site but all electronic music. Guest vocalists, string section, keys - the lot. 

This is a DJ doing 'live' properly. EPIC stuff.

 

 

No it's not. It's a electronic musician playing live.  Who also happens to do DJing.

Edited May 30, 2017 by stuartbert two hats

[slipmatt]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

No it's not. It's a electronic musicianplaying live.  Who also happens to do DJing.

Not quite sure what you mean there - in short, Sasha has first and foremost always been a DJ, then a producer, who has now moved into the live arena. This is him playing live. A DJ who has moved to perform live - and, imho, has done it justice. Felt like I ruffled a feather and didn't intend to!

A DJ being billed as live, then pushing a button of course, is no good and not in keeping with the craft and is just a promotion tactic if you ask me.