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Probably just semantics - they mayne need to drop debate in favour of 'forum' or similar.

Ava Vidal is a comedian, though it doesnt sound like she's there in a performing capacity.

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20 minutes ago, kalifire said:

When I was there in 2014, somebody asked a panel at Leftfield the same thing, although more accusatory. Something along the lines of: "why isn't there a greater breadth of opinion here?"

BB rather hastily blurted "it's LEFT field, mate. What do you expect?" and everybody laughed then clapped and Billy made a face. 

But it wasn't a bad question because there does seem to be a frustrating consesnsus reached, even within the left, where any criticism is seen as almost treasonous and jeers of 'Tory' get spat in that direction. It doesn't serve progressive debate at all and actually just made me a bit depressed with the state of things. 

Labour never won an election by Tory bashing but that seems to be Leftfield's go to a lot of the time. 

I remember when doing a course up in Scotland, there were lots of fractures along class lines, locality, snobbery etc etc, among the class members. One evening someone from England confided in me that he didn't get what everyone was fighting about as they were all "just Scottish" to him.

This did make me laugh, but the point is I think if you're not left wing, then likely you'll go there and feel everyone is just left wing and agreeing with each other, whereas I go there and experience lots of different viewpoints as 'the left' is quite diverse to me. There have been some quite heated debates and some not so heated ones- it's luck of the draw really. 

Sometimes you'll go and there isn't much disagreement, but I don't think everyone agreeing on something is a bad thing, is it?

Part of left fields appeal is its where people can hang out with like minded people, as often you can be quite isolated in day to day life if you're very political and left wing, and it's nice to be able to rant about the tories and express some of the anger you feel with the way things are going. 

Edited by Mr.Tease
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11 hours ago, Keithy said:

Yeah, it can be a bit of an echo chamber. As much as I'd love them to have someone there with a strong contrary argument for a proper debate, it's there to promote and discuss a left leaning belief.

I went to see the Pussy Riot debate a couple of years ago, hoping to see the a really passionate debate but it was basically everyone agreeing that Putin is a bit of a c**t.

Listened to an interview with Claire Fox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Foxonly yesterday saying this sort of thing is not only prevalent but policy in many places where you'd think free speech would be vital. 

I'm of the opinion that, even if only as a devils advocate, anyone expressing a contrary opinion to that generally proffered in Leftfield would be in danger of getting at least a verbal kicking if not worse.

 

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good of Clive Lewis to take time out of his busy leadership campaign for the G

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7 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Part of left fields appeal is its where people can hang out with like minded people, as often you can be quite isolated in day to day life if you're very political and left wing, and it's nice to be able to rant about the tories and express some of the anger you feel with the way things are going. 

Yeah this for me. I love hanging out there and chatting to some like minding people, and I always catch some great bands singers on too.

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4 minutes ago, liamium said:

good of Clive Lewis to take time out of his busy leadership campaign for the G

He won't be on the ballot- the lowering of the threshold for nominations isn't scheduled to happen (if it did get the go ahead)  until September I think, so if there's a leadership contest straight after the election, Lewis won't have anywhere near enough nominations to get on the ballot. 

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13 minutes ago, Flysheet said:

Listened to an interview with Claire Fox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Foxonly yesterday saying this sort of thing is not only prevalent but policy in many places where you'd think free speech would be vital. 

I'm of the opinion that, even if only as a devils advocate, anyone expressing a contrary opinion to that generally proffered in Leftfield would be in danger of getting at least a verbal kicking if not worse.

 

Because they'd be there to antagonise, so people would respond accordingly. If I went to a right wing tent I could pretend I'm just there to listen, but I wouldn't be owning my true motivations. You can't go to provoke or antagonise then pull the old passive aggressive "hey, I just came here to listen, why are you being hostile?" routine. 

Edited by Mr.Tease

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11 minutes ago, liamium said:

good of Clive Lewis to take time out of his busy leadership campaign for the G

due to the conditions last year, so away from our usual spot, we ended up next to him in CVE17, started off very politiciany, "hello im Clive, Nice to meet you" firm handshake, no swearing, but after the brexit vote, he was very sweary and normal seeming, he was very nice, and seemed genuinely down to earth, now everyone i guess is more relaxed on holiday, but he was in contact with HQ, and was relaying all the backstabbing that was going on, directly after the vote, some colleague had asked him, if he wanted him to do an interview, but clive said he would phone the news organization, and speak to them, 1/2 an hour later, the Telegraph ot something had, partying hard MP not returning from Glastonbury as party descends into Chaos.

anyway, we then had campfire discussions, about what labour could do in Scotland etc, and why we voted the way we did, and the pros and cons of various things

I really enjoyed the randomness of it, and his friends were ace with our wee one, giving her loads of glitter makeup etc, and making us a brew at night,

Then i think he got made into Shadow defence secretary, while he was at Glasto

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The problem with the debates in my (albeit limited) experience isn't that there are no right-wing views there, more that it tends to be a very specific flavour of left - albeit one I'm broadly in favour of.

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4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Because they'd be there to antagonise, so people would respond accordingly. If I went to a right wing tent I could pretend I'm just there to listen, but I wouldn't be owning my true motivations. You can't go to provoke or antagonise then pull the old passive aggressive "hey, I just came here to listen, why are you being hostile?" routine. 

You can go to question what's being said though, as long as you do it in the right way. 

I was a rare left winger yet in the forces when I first started going to Glasto, way back before it was on TV, and it was a real eye opener. I learnt loads and I've carried a lot of that with me today, but I'm more of a free thinker than toeing any party line. Some of my views would be anathema to folk on here, but in the next breath I'd be agreeing with them.

That's my point entirely. Only listening to one point of view and nodding along won't actually get folk anywhere, nor will simply shouting down the opposition. 

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18 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

He won't be on the ballot- the lowering of the threshold for nominations isn't scheduled to happen (if it did get the go ahead)  until September I think, so if there's a leadership contest straight after the election, Lewis won't have anywhere near enough nominations to get on the ballot. 

I guess. Though I wonder if the PLP might've now realised that as long as they keep putting up the Smiths & Eagles of the party, the membership will invariably rally behind Corbyn to prevent what they see as a shift to the right after the election defeat. Might they trade off- someone else from the left of the party with a good shot at beating Corbyn -just to be rid of him?

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A debate is only a debate if there are different views surely?

Ive not been to a leftfield one, I always assumed they were more like lectures. Everyone there held the same view. Evidently not

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2 minutes ago, liamium said:

I guess. Though I wonder if the PLP might've now realised that as long as they keep putting up the Smiths & Eagles of the party, the membership will invariably rally behind Corbyn to prevent what they see as a shift to the right after the election defeat. Might they trade off- someone else from the left of the party with a good shot at beating Corbyn -just to be rid of him?

I think they probably realise they don't have to accommodate the membership of the party if Corbyn quits- the PLP get to choose all the candidates so they'll just put forward centre and rightwing ones, then they'll make sure this never happens again by clamping down on party democracy.

I know Corbyn critics will think this is great, but really I think the party needs new talent and so needs opening up a bit. This isn't going to happen if they tighten everything up- it'll just be a return to empty vessel's leading the party. Also the tories are cutting off the union funding so we really need mass membership to make the party financially viable. 

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6 minutes ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

A debate is only a debate if there are different views surely?

Ive not been to a leftfield one, I always assumed they were more like lectures. Everyone there held the same view. Evidently not

Does the left seem like a homogenous, United group to you? Really? There's lots of diversity of opinion within the left, always has been

For me it's like going to an astronomy tent and complaining they're all talking science and they should accommodate creationists instead. 

Edited by Mr.Tease

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1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said:

Does the left seem like a homogenous, United group to you? Really? There's lots of diversity of opinion within the left, always has been

All a bit heavy for a Wednesday morning, but realistically what is "the left"? Traditionally open, welcoming and well meaning

Corbyn and his ilk, yep, tolerant for sure if a little unrepresentative of the traditional labour voter these days .

 

Antifa and SWP? Where do they sit, because they're as bad as any rabble rousers on the right.

Then you've the 'Blairites' who are, well, we've learnt that lesson I guess.

The people who can pull that lot together don't exist these days

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7 minutes ago, Flysheet said:

All a bit heavy for a Wednesday morning, but realistically what is "the left"? Traditionally open, welcoming and well meaning

Corbyn and his ilk, yep, tolerant for sure if a little unrepresentative of the traditional labour voter these days .

 

Antifa and SWP? Where do they sit, because they're as bad as any rabble rousers on the right.

Then you've the 'Blairites' who are, well, we've learnt that lesson I guess.

The people who can pull that lot together don't exist these days

Those are the kind of exciting debates you'll find at the leftfield :lol:

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4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Those are the kind of exciting debates you'll find at the leftfield :lol:

I can enjoy being there sometimes, watched Tom Robinson last year. 

The naivety of conversations can be both frustrating and humorous in equal measure though. There's a lot of theory espoused that simply cannot translate into practice in a modern nation or global setting. On a micro scale, in a community ideas will work and work well as long as people go along with the rules (religious communities the world over show this) but only in isolation. Any truly socialist economy has to work with the wider globalist structure and it's going to get screwed over. 

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35 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Does the left seem like a homogenous, United group to you? Really? There's lots of diversity of opinion within the left, always has been

 

Not really. I am very much a "lefty" - I just assumed that I'd agree with 99.9% of the debate if I went to one. I will try to check one out this year.

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Despite being a left supporting person, I would class myself as left realist. Therefore I'm sure I would not agree with a lot of the more idealistic points made in these debates. However, I am unsure as to whether I would feel comfortable enough to be able to express this disagreement if I had the opportunity to (not that I would probably want to in such a public environment).

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13 hours ago, sime said:

Last year my Sunday headliners were The Selecter in Leftfield followed by the rest of Earth, Wind and Fires set at West Holts. Will be repeating that this year with Dreadzone and whoever is headlining WH's. Great way to end the festival!

Similar to me - I did The Selecter followed by the rest of LCD Soundsystem on the Other Stage, and yes as long as my legs are still functioning by Sunday this year i will probably be at Dreadzone, although seeing them in a few weeks at Bearded Theory.

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7 hours ago, John the Moth said:

Doing it Spanish festival style, see the headliner then go see some more bands and DJs :D

Thoroughly recommended.  Saturday night in 2015 I saw 3 headline acts (Leftfield, West Holts, Glade) one after the other without having to wander too far to do so.

2 hours ago, Mr.Tease said:

There have been some quite heated debates and some not so heated ones- it's luck of the draw really. 

I saw Owen Jones chair a discussion there where he was reduced to tears when he was shut down by being told "All I see here is the same thing I see everywhere, a wealthy white man telling a working class black woman to shut up and be told what to think".  It can be an echo chamber, but it can also foster moments of fiery debate for sure.  Some on the right (and elsewhere) like to paint the left as a homogeneous group who think and act as one, but there are many points of view (just look at the difference between Neil and anyone who supports the current Labour leadership) and like everything it is a spectrum, a series of shades of grey, not black and white.

It is definitely worth going to Leftfield for an hour of your festival to see what it's all about.  You might come away a little more informed, you might come away a little more cynical.

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