Don't vote Tory

[amfy]

I worked for the NHS for over 10 years in addictions services but you'd be hard pressed to find an addictions service still in the NHS anywhere in the country now. They are nearly all in private hands.

Also - there's a thing called 'Virgin Care' which is taking over sections of NHS care too. Privatisation IS happening. It's happening like it never has before and is a very real thing.

They also destroy it with the short-sightedness of lowering the working conditions in the NHS.  Decimate the pensions, hammer any hint of job security, and you find all your qualified staff are happier working for agencies. So the NHS ends up paying twice as much for half as many staff. Halving resources by wasting money rather than giving staff good conditions of service to retain them and maximise resources. That problem is exactly the same in teaching and social work too.

Sometimes looking like your saving money is really counterproductive. 

 

[zahidf]

Probably a rouge poll but Maybe Labour wont be TOTALLY wiped out...

 

 

[waterfalls212434]

38 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Probably a rouge poll but Maybe Labour wont be TOTALLY wiped out...

 

 

its not a rogue poll, polls have been showing a consistent gain for the last few weeks at the moment labour seem to be gaining 4-5 points a week in the pollsat this rate by election time the polls will have them neck and neck at the least.....for fucks sake why dont people just cut the crap and start backing the man! labours support is rising! we can do this! stop being a bunch of negative bellends unite behind the man and banish the tories! arguably that is whats best for this country...even if you have your doubts about corbyn you cannot tell me he is worse then theresa may and her tories!.....so stop nitpicking and get behind it!

the gap is closing, the tories are floundering. take advantage!

Edited May 25, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[Rose-Colored Boy]

1 hour ago, joeshez89 said:

Is he that bad a public speaker though?

compared to May? Or certainly Milliband or Brown? 

I know these hardly the elite speakers to be compared to, but I'd say he comes across quite well compared to people's recent memories of PM candidates 

he's a lot worse than both May and Brown. May and Brown have both made well-known modern-classic speeches - the latter's largely credited with saving the Union. Corbyn couldn't dream of that. Miliband wasn't much nicer than Corbyn to listen to overall, but he at least had something resembling a grasp of the art of cadence. Corbyn's approach to prosody is among the worst I've witnessed from any politician, ever.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Zac Quinn

[themuel]

9 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

he's a lot worse than both May and Brown. May and Brown have both made well-known modern-classic speeches - the latter's largely credited with saving the Union. Corbyn couldn't dream of that. Miliband wasn't much nicer than Corbyn to listen to overall, but he at least had something resembling a grasp of the art of cadence. Corbyn's approach to prosody is among the worst I've heard from any politician, ever.

That's interesting - I find him thoroughly  engaging as a public speaker. I believe what he says which is more than I can say for Theresa May. He's been out speaking to crowds of thousands and they seem to be quite happy with how he does it. 

[waterfalls212434]

15 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

he's a lot worse than both May and Brown. May and Brown have both made well-known modern-classic speeches - the latter's largely credited with saving the Union. Corbyn couldn't dream of that. Miliband wasn't much nicer than Corbyn to listen to overall, but he at least had something resembling a grasp of the art of cadence. Corbyn's approach to prosody is among the worst I've witnessed from any politician, ever.

I agree with themuel are you watching what im watching? corbyn is speaking in front of thousands at his rallys all over the country and captivating his audiences......may is speaking in front of small scale groups of torys or `forced to listen to her` factory workers etc not just that but he always tend to show up may on occasions like pmqs and unlike may when hes speaking you dont get the sense that hes utterly bullshitting, hes made some of the most stirring speeches in our time......have you seen his speeches around the subject of the iraq war for example?
 

People tend to forget hes been doing this since he took on thatcher...may isnt exactly the most formidable opponent hes had to deal with  

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[waterfalls212434]

the canary claims to have a scoop on this upcoming speech tommorow.....it sounds damn good, exactly what people will want to hear....people ARE fed up of the country being dragged into action overseas which only results in a higher threat from terrorism, people will aggree with his policy on increasing funding for the emergency services theres just nothing not to like there https://www.thecanary.co/2017/05/25/friday-corbyn-will-deliver-important-speech-election-canary-copy/....if accurate I think this may put him over the top, as hes showing hes everything may isnt.

Edited May 25, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[Rose-Colored Boy]

15 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

I agree with themuel are you watching what im watching? corbyn is speaking in front of thousands at his rallys all over the country and captivating his audiences......may is speaking in front of small scale groups of torys or `forced to listen to her` factory workers etc not just that but he always tend to show up may on occasions like pmqs and unlike may when hes speaking you dont get the sense that hes utterly bullshitting, hes made some of the most stirring speeches in our time......have you seen his speeches around the subject of the iraq war for example?
 

People tend to forget hes been doing this since he took on thatcher...may isnt exactly the most formidable opponent hes had to deal with  

 

Just shouty rambling, with all the nuanced cadence of a first-time amateur. Soz.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Zac Quinn

[Rose-Colored Boy]

7 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

the canary claims to have a scoop on this upcoming speech tommorow.....it sounds damn good, exactly what people will want to hear https://www.thecanary.co/2017/05/25/friday-corbyn-will-deliver-important-speech-election-canary-copy/

The Torys' biggest stick they beat Corbyn with is that he's anti-Western to the point of lacking in sufficient patriotism to be PM. I personally have a fair bit of time for his anti-Western stuff, but why on earth is he making a speech banging on about it two weeks before the election? FFS.

[waterfalls212434]

11 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

The Torys' biggest stick they beat Corbyn with is that he's anti-Western to the point of lacking in sufficient patriotism to be PM. I personally have a fair bit of time for his anti-Western stuff, but why on earth is he making a speech banging on about it two weeks before the election? FFS.

anti western? it sounds to me like hes simply saying hes going to tackle the root cause of extremism which to a lot of people IS the fact that we should have never got involved in affairs like the iraq war and arming the saudis etc.......how is that anti western? its fucking common sense and its what a lot of people have been thinking for a long time.....or did the iraq war etc actually have popular support? 

Edited May 25, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[waterfalls212434]

13 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Just shouty rambling, with all the nuanced cadence of a first-time amateur. Soz.

ok your either a bad troll or your smoking something Maybe I should have posted a  video of Theresa may repeating the phrase strong and stable over and over and fucking over like a robot....that seems to be what you class as good public speaking, difference between the 2 is you can tell theresa may is speaking from a script.....and you can tell corbyns speaking with passion.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Just now, waterfalls212434 said:

anti western? it sounds to me like hes simply saying hes going to tackle the root cause of extremism which to a lot of people IS the fact that we should have never got involved in affairs like the iraq war and arming the saudis etc.......how is that anti western? its fucking common sense and its what a lot of people have been thinking for a long time.....or did the iraq war etc actually have popular support? 

The Tory press are already framing it as anti-British bollocks. As well as attacking the obvious black holes like 'Belgium weren't involved in Iraq yet have been attacked multiple times' etc. Whether you personally agree with his sentiments or not, this is an own goal at the worst possible time.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

5 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

ok your either a bad troll or your smoking something Maybe I should have posted a  video of Theresa may repeating the phrase strong and stable over and over and fucking over like a robot....that seems to be what you class as good public speaking, difference between the 2 is you can tell theresa may is speaking from a script.....and you can tell corbyns speaking with passion.

Don't get me wrong, May is infuriatingly bland. But she's at least fairly easy to listen to. Haven't witnessed my Mum march across the room to turn off the radio out of sheer anguish because an extended clip of her's come on.

[waterfalls212434]

20 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Don't get me wrong, May is infuriatingly bland. But she's at least fairly easy to listen to. Haven't witnessed my Mum march across the room to turn off the radio out of sheer anguish because an extended clip of her's come on.

Ironically thats me when I hear theresa may......since when does your mum represent the entire public? 

[waterfalls212434]

28 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

The Tory press are already framing it as anti-British bollocks. As well as attacking the obvious black holes like 'Belgium weren't involved in Iraq yet have been attacked multiple times' etc. Whether you personally agree with his sentiments or not, this is an own goal at the worst possible time.

The tory press have been slating the man for this and for that ever since he took over mate! and labour are still climbing in the polls! we have reached the point where the press are being so fucking over the top its pretty obvious even to an idiot that they are bullshitting

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[waterfalls212434]

sounding even better

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, waterfalls212434 said:

its not a rogue poll, polls have been showing a consistent gain for the last few weeks at the moment labour seem to be gaining 4-5 points a week in the pollsat this rate by election time the polls will have them neck and neck at the least.....for fucks sake why dont people just cut the crap and start backing the man! labours support is rising! we can do this! stop being a bunch of negative bellends unite behind the man and banish the tories! arguably that is whats best for this country...even if you have your doubts about corbyn you cannot tell me he is worse then theresa may and her tories!.....so stop nitpicking and get behind it!

the gap is closing, the tories are floundering. take advantage!

Ha! I would prefer Corbyn to May, but im not getting my hope up after 2015

[Rose-Colored Boy]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Ha! I would prefer Corbyn to May, but im not getting my hope up after 2015

Exactly right. This polling is showing remarkable similarities to the 2015 debacle - from how far behind he is in the leaders' personal approval ratings, to the lack of analysis of which seats Labour is actually polling well in, to the overstatement of the importance of his popularity with the youthful demographics who don't vote. I'd dearly love a Labour government for so many different reasons, but it's not gonna happen. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Zac Quinn

[waterfalls212434]

5 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Exactly right. This polling is showing remarkable similarities to the 2015 debacle: from how far he is behind in his personal approval ratings - usually seen as a more honest indicator of the likely result than the overall polls - to the importance being placed on how popular he is amongst the youthful demographics who don't vote. I'd dearly love Corbyn to win, but it's not gonna happen. 

mate fuck it, if you dont have hope you dont have anything.....what is the negativity going to accomplish? really? corbyn IS the leader, that is going to get in if may doesnt, none of the others will get close so rather then going on and on and on and on about how he wont do it, hes got no chance, hes wrong on this, hes wrong on that blah blah fucking blah.....just throw your weight behind the man and see what comes of it! whats the alternative? backing may? and I know you dont want to do that!  

 

your negativity doesnt even have reality in some cases dude! statements like `to the importance being placed on how popular he is amongst the youthful demographics who don't vote.`

dont vote? maybe in the past but multiple sources say young people have registered in record numbers this time around!   Just one source-http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/huge-last-minute-surge-in-young-people-registering-to-vote-as-deadline-looms-10190381.html

I fucking detest this attitude I really do....he wont win? yeah if everyone had your attitude of course he wont! because your a fucking defeatist! stand up and be counted and stop moping for fucks sake man!

Edited May 25, 2017 by waterfalls212434

[Splonk]

1 hour ago, Zac Quinn said:

....why on earth is he making a speech banging on about it two weeks before the election? FFS.

Have you not been watching the news in the past 48 hours you daft plant pot.

 

1 hour ago, Zac Quinn said:

My main issue with him is that he's a god-awful public speaker

Main issue? His poor presentational skills? 

[Trout Mask Replica]

2 hours ago, waterfalls212434 said:

its not a rogue poll, polls have been showing a consistent gain for the last few weeks at the moment labour seem to be gaining 4-5 points a week in the pollsat this rate by election time the polls will have them neck and neck at the least.....for fucks sake why dont people just cut the crap and start backing the man! labours support is rising! we can do this! stop being a bunch of negative bellends unite behind the man and banish the tories! arguably that is whats best for this country...even if you have your doubts about corbyn you cannot tell me he is worse then theresa may and her tories!.....so stop nitpicking and get behind it!

the gap is closing, the tories are floundering. take advantage!

Yep, cmon people. Let's do this. 

 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

35 minutes ago, Splonk said:

Have you not been watching the news in the past 48 hours you daft plant pot.

I understand why he's making a speech about terrorism, obviously, my issue is him doing so in a way which gives the press ammo to start talking up his lack of patriotism again. Just when it felt like they'd begun to run out of dirt to throw at him. He had an opportunity handed him on a plate to talk up how a Labour government would tackle the social divisions which led to Salman Abedi feeling so disconnected from British society, but no Corbyn has chosen to bang on about Iraq again. A ridiculously stupid own goal even by his standards. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Zac Quinn

[DeanoL]

14 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I'd like a Labour victory, but I'm not so stupid as to think there's any chance of one.

There's only one reason there's no chance of one, and my words here are absolutely fuck all of the cause.

So vote Labour. Or in the way that provides the best possibility of a Labour victory.

Because you might be wrong. You might be the stupid one. And wouldn't it suck of it was far closer than you thought, and Labour did lose because people like you felt it was fine to throw a vote elsewhere because they have no chance. That was also the exact same thinking that Corbyn elected leader of the Labour Party in the first place so you think you would have learned the lesson by now.

All these same people saying Corbyn has no chance were saying Leave had no chance too. And Leave won. And we had the Hilary / Trump vote and those people went "yeah, Brexit was weird, but Hilary is polling far better than Remain were, she will be fine" and Trump won. And now we have another election and those same people are going "yeah but Corbyn is further behind than even Trump was, he clearly has no chance"

And all that's fine, you can say that, sure. But to take it to the point of not even voting for the party you want to win. Because you're so convinced they can't. Even though you've been wrong about every big vote in the past five years...

But by all means keep at it. I'm closer to switching my vote to Tory than I was a week ago as your arguments have been very good. So you could sway me yet!

 

[bamber]

1 hour ago, Zac Quinn said:

I understand why he's making a speech about terrorism, obviously, my issue is him doing so in a way which gives the press ammo to start talking up his lack of patriotism again. Just when it felt like they'd begun to run out of dirt to throw at him. He had an opportunity handed him on a plate to talk up how a Labour government would tackle the social divisions which led to Salman Abedi feeling so disconnected from British society, but no Corbyn has chosen to bang on about Iraq again. A ridiculously stupid own goal even by his standards. 

If he says what it is reported he is going to say, then Labour is fucked. I honestly respect the guy in his conviction to long held principals, but leave the hot potato alone, now is not the time.

[waterfalls212434]

2 hours ago, bamber said:

If he says what it is reported he is going to say, then Labour is fucked. I honestly respect the guy in his conviction to long held principals, but leave the hot potato alone, now is not the time.

Oh look another doomsayer thats refreshing...lol

 

Never thourght id see such negativity on a Glastonbury board....as for what hes saying I believe completly the opposite people have had enough of our intervention in places in the middle east and the fact it increases the terrorism risk is one of rhe reasons why. I think he hits the nail right on the fucking head....the daily mail etc can say what the fuck they like who gives a fuck, if corbyn said something else theyd slate him for that as well

Edited May 26, 2017 by waterfalls212434