Oh no - another festival right after the election!

[RichardWaller]

On 4/21/2017 at 1:42 PM, eFestivals said:

you've called me a liar and more for refusing to be your personal slave.

Not because you had the evidence that I was lying. While demanding that i provided you with evidence.

Are you really so self-absorbed?

</thinks back to yesterday and reaches a conclusion>

Neil, there are plenty of good and friendly people, or at least civil people on here. I don't think you're one of them. Do you talk to people like shit face to face the way you do on here? I'd love to see it, actually. Curious, that's all.

Edited April 24, 2017 by RichardWaller

[eFestivals]

3 hours ago, RichardWaller said:

Neil, there are plenty of good and friendly people, or at least civil people on here. I don't think you're one of them. Do you talk to people like shit face to face the way you do on here? I'd love to see it, actually. Curious, that's all.

yep, the good guys are the ones like you who immediately call someone a liar because they won't be your slave.

I'm aware of my own faults enough to not go out of my way just to post insults like you have here. Perhaps try a bit of self awareness for your own?

Edited April 24, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Meanwhile, Corbyn's great isn't he? So great he doesn't know if he's standing for election in support of Trident or against it. No one suggested just last week that as soon as he was quizzed about policy he'd mess it up.

 

[russycarps]

He should just repeat "4 extra bank holidays" over and over and over and over. It will get him more votes than anything else he could ever say or do.

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, russycarps said:

He should just repeat "4 extra bank holidays" over and over and over and over. It will get him more votes than anything else he could ever say or do.

 

you're probably right, tho why anyone might think the issues of poverty are sorted out by people creating less wealth I've no idea.

[Trout Mask Replica]

25 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

you're probably right, tho why anyone might think the issues of poverty are sorted out by people creating less wealth I've no idea.

Wealth creation, and for whom is precisely the nub of the issue here. 

People do need to create wealth for themselves but some feel they're not getting a fair deal. Not when it seems to flow upwards and away from them, their communities and their public services. 

Trickle down economic policy now seems a bit discredited whilst such extremes of wealth persist. 

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, Trout Mask Replica said:

but some feel they're not getting a fair deal

I don't doubt that's how they feel. The question is: is it true?

No matter who owns what and no matter how many bits of pretty printed paper they might display, there are only the same resources to go around.

If more resources are going to go to (say) hospitals then that's less resources for (say) a night out.

You might like to think that it can all come from the wealthy and the poor can stay untouched, but unless the only change is via the stopping of the manufacture of luxury goods that's never how it can be.

Forget about money and have a think instead about resources - about how we can have more nice things for ourselves if the results of our working efforts are more towards (say) hospitals than towards nice things for ourselves.

[arcade fireman]

The four bank holidays thing is mental. Actually mental. 

I've long thought Labour should advocate for an extra bank holiday on St George's Day. It combines a worker friendly policy whilst also reaching out to those potential UKIP voters who feel the party aren't patriotic enough. So far so good. 

But four? There's absolutely no need for the whole of the country to have days off for each home nations saints day. That's what devolved Parliaments are for. St Andrews Day is technically a bank holiday in Scotland for example though not observed everywhere. 

Three of them are clustered around March/April. Add in the extra two days off for Easter and that's a fairly big chunk of days over that two month period. Hardly ideal when many businesses struggle with end of tax year around then as it is. 

Loads of people are self employed. Others are small business owners. This wouldn't really help them much and often may hinder them. Plenty of places don't give that much of an hourly uplift for bank holidays anyway, though others do.

And it does cost a lot. Forget the corporate sector, even look at the public sector. I work in the NHS, it would mean four extra days of hospitals running at reduced service, fewer routine operations etc. And for the staff that work it they'd get time off elsewhere. Which means understaffing at other times of the year in an already stretched service.

Of course Labour would be better for increased staffing and resources for the NHS and that's good, but that would often take years and in the meantime the financial cost of four extra days off for staff would be far better spent elsewhere. Holiday time is reasonable as it is really, despite the litany of other issues with working conditions. 

And it's often missed that many of the European countries who have more bank holidays than us also don't have days in lieu when, for example Christmas or New Years falls on a weekend. So this makes up some of the difference anyway. 

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

The four bank holidays thing is mental. Actually mental. 

I've long thought Labour should advocate for an extra bank holiday on St George's Day. It combines a worker friendly policy whilst also reaching out to those potential UKIP voters who feel the party aren't patriotic enough. So far so good. 

But four? There's absolutely no need for the whole of the country to have days off for each home nations saints day. That's what devolved Parliaments are for. St Andrews Day is technically a bank holiday in Scotland for example though not observed everywhere. 

Three of them are clustered around March/April. Add in the extra two days off for Easter and that's a fairly big chunk of days over that two month period. Hardly ideal when many businesses struggle with end of tax year around then as it is. 

Loads of people are self employed. Others are small business owners. This wouldn't really help them much and often may hinder them. Plenty of places don't give that much of an hourly uplift for bank holidays anyway, though others do.

And it does cost a lot. Forget the corporate sector, even look at the public sector. I work in the NHS, it would mean four extra days of hospitals running at reduced service, fewer routine operations etc. And for the staff that work it they'd get time off elsewhere. Which means understaffing at other times of the year in an already stretched service.

Of course Labour would be better for increased staffing and resources for the NHS and that's good, but that would often take years and in the meantime the financial cost of four extra days off for staff would be far better spent elsewhere. Holiday time is reasonable as it is really, despite the litany of other issues with working conditions. 

And it's often missed that many of the European countries who have more bank holidays than us also don't have days in lieu when, for example Christmas or New Years falls on a weekend. So this makes up some of the difference anyway. 

or just put simply: it's about a 1.5% reduction of staffing for the NHS.

Which means that there would have to be an increase of 1.5% of staffing for the NHS to just stand still at the current crisis rate.

SURELY, if it's in crisis, the crisis needs sorting before the crisis is made bigger by taking away staff resources?

 

[simian_mobile_mushrooms]

Corbyn on the Andrew Marr show was just fucking depressing the other day, it was embarrassing. It's no surprise the Cons are in this great position

[Mr.Tease]

10 minutes ago, simian_mobile_mushrooms said:

Corbyn on the Andrew Marr show was just fucking depressing the other day, it was embarrassing. It's no surprise the Cons are in this great position

Watch an interview with Tereasa May to ease the pain! She's usually awful!

[Mr.Tease]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

you're probably right, tho why anyone might think the issues of poverty are sorted out by people creating less wealth I've no idea.

it's not that simple- it's like saying if we got rid of all bank holidays, productivity would rise because of the extra working days. that wouldn't actually happen because people would be stressed, ill, tired, etc etc. and so less productive. Maybe more holidays would cut down sick days.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Watch an interview with Tereasa May to ease the pain! She's usually awful!

awful maybe, but able to say what her party's policies are without fucking it up.

If someone can't even say what their policies are without fucking it up, might that give a clue to how well they'd be able to implement them?

Which is where the problems are. 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

it's not that simple- it's like saying if we got rid of all bank holidays, productivity would rise because of the extra working days. that wouldn't actually happen because people would be stressed, ill, tired, etc etc. and so less productive. Maybe more holidays would cut down sick days.

oh look, you've made something up with little basis (without getting into detail) to try to defend something which was never presented on the basis you're giving it.

If that was the claimed reason for the extra holidays you'd maybe have a point, but it wasn't. It was simply Jezza saying we should all work less cos he thinks we'd like to work less - which is probably true by itself, but there's more to it than just that.

Edited April 24, 2017 by eFestivals

[Mr.Tease]

46 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

oh look, you've made something up with little basis (without getting into detail) to try to defend something which was never presented on the basis you're giving it.

If that was the claimed reason for the extra holidays you'd maybe have a point, but it wasn't. It was simply Jezza saying we should all work less cos he thinks we'd like to work less - which is probably true by itself, but there's more to it than just that.

 Oh look, you've gone on pointless attack mode to make this discussion as tedious as humanly possible!

Working in mental health and in EAPs, I believe holidays are a good thing for both the wellbeing of the person and also for their productivity and absentee rates- you can look up the mental health studies if you actually believe this is herecy. My point was in response to your claim (also without evidence) that holidays automatically = loss of productivity which simply isn't true.

Does every discussion have to turn into sneering? Jesus! I don't give a monkeys what corbyns reason for the policy is, I was saying I like the idea. How dare I! 

[zahidf]

Pure racism here from UKIP

 

 

[eFestivals]

25 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

 Oh look, you've gone on pointless attack mode to make this discussion as tedious as humanly possible!

Working in mental health and in EAPs, I believe holidays are a good thing for both the wellbeing of the person and also for their productivity and absentee rates- you can look up the mental health studies if you actually believe this is herecy. My point was in response to your claim (also without evidence) that holidays automatically = loss of productivity which simply isn't true.

Does every discussion have to turn into sneering? Jesus! I don't give a monkeys what corbyns reason for the policy is, I was saying I like the idea. How dare I! 

Holidays may or may not be a good thing for mental health &/or general productivity.

That's got naff all to do with why Corbyn is offering extras tho, and alongside everything else he's saying they work against his overall plans for the country rather than make a better country easier to deliver.

We'd all love extra holidays, we don't need to argue about that part ... but we can discuss what has been proposed on the basis it was proposed and not a false basis, can't we?

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Pure racism here from UKIP

 

 

says the man who calls all brexit voters racist on no less of a good basis that UKIP are using here. :lol:

It's easy to be as moronic as UKIP, but if you want to show yourself as better than UKIP you actually have to be better than them, rather than merely believing that doing all the same things while claiming the higher moral ground on no basis at all is something better.

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

says the man who calls all brexit voters racist on no less of a good basis that UKIP are using here.

It's easy to be as moronic as UKIP, but if you want to show yourself as better than UKIP you actually have to be better than them, rather than merely believing that doing all the same things while claiming the higher moral ground on no basis at all is something better.

Because of course i am advocating and running on a platform of brexit voters being given longer prison sentences than remain voters.

[Mr.Tease]

22 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Pure racism here from UKIP

 

 

Aside from racism, it's such a stupid policy- I work with a lot of children and adults who have been sexually abused and by far the most common perpetrators are family members- think the stats show something like 70%. I Just find it bizarre that they think that shouldn't be a priority, but then again the media and politicians chose not to tackle it either, so it all gets swept under the rug much like the initial abuse did for the survivor. 

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Because of course i am advocating and running on a platform of brexit voters being given longer prison sentences than remain voters.

They're both evidence free assertions.

What did you miss?

[DeanoL]

The bank holiday policy is ridiculous but is the sort of thing that just might work in terms of getting votes. We seem to all be in agreement that even if Corbyn had a sudden transformation and could present sensible policies strongly and concisely it'd be too little to late so may as well come up with his own "build a wall"

[zahidf]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Aside from racism, it's such a stupid policy- I work with a lot of children and adults who have been sexually abused and by far the most common perpetrators are family members- think the stats show something like 70%. I Just find it bizarre that they think that shouldn't be a priority, but then again the media and politicians chose not to tackle it either, so it all gets swept under the rug much like the initial abuse did for the survivor. 

Its only racism: they are saying that being raped by a darkie is worse than being raped by a white man.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Its only racism: they are saying that being raped by a darkie is worse than being raped by a white man.

oh look, zahidf's made it up again.

It's absolutely fuck all to do with that. 

They're saying that an attack on a white by a black is always hate crime, in the same way that they want to falsely suggest that all crimes by a white on a black are treated as hate crimes.

But hey, there's stupid in UKIP and out of UKIP.

We don't end humanity's stupidity by starting a race of stupidity to the bottom of stupidity.

Edited April 24, 2017 by eFestivals

[russycarps]

This ukip clown has misjudged the country with these extreme positions. This will lose ukip support I reckon.

Most people just want lower immigration, not this sinister stuff.