Download 2018

[seant007]

1 minute ago, LiamEP said:

If slipknot could retire at any moment then couldn’t korn just do the same, considering korn are an older band. 

Korn are so past their peak now, they could’ve easily been put up to headlining 10 or 15 years ago but no British festival gave them that last push up, just cannot see that happening now when there are newer bands to take those slots like ADTR or BMTH

Well Clown has stated a couple times about the strong probability of retirement for Slipknot in the somewhat near future, whether that means 2019 or not, no one knows but nevertheless this is why I brought up them as a retiring possibility, nothing to do with their age as a band or even Nu Metal Bands disappearing as a whole. Korn on the other hand defiantly have said nothing of the sort and are already headlining Download Melbourne, so if they headline Donnington by 2019 it wont be that big of a shock, this isn't that big of a possibility but because of the patterns that happen with new headliners for Download, it is one to look at, even if they are past their prime.

 

[h1210]

2 hours ago, seant007 said:

WHY? Korn is going to get bigger, why do you think they wont headline at 2019, they'll have a new album in the works and who knows if Slipknot are even gonna stay around by then, they could just call retire at any moment.

Not a chance

[seant007]

9 minutes ago, h1210 said:

Not a chance

If they want retirement, they'll get it, honestly if they don't change Crahan's mind of the state the band is in, they will call quits at least temporally, im sure eyeless is not painless doing at nearly 50.

[Andre91]

2 hours ago, LiamEP said:

If slipknot could retire at any moment then couldn’t korn just do the same, considering korn are an older band. 

Korn are so past their peak now, they could’ve easily been put up to headlining 10 or 15 years ago but no British festival gave them that last push up, just cannot see that happening now when there are newer bands to take those slots like ADTR or BMTH

It’s not that nobody gave them the push, it’s more that there wasn’t a heavy festival in the UK to give them that push when they were at their absolute peak and definitely headliner size in the late 90s / early 00s. Same for Bizkit and Manson and probably Deftones on White Pony when they were in arenas. 

I do think KoRn could headline in future, though. They’ve got an incredible live reputation these days and their last album has 3/4 bangers on it and when a band has been going as long as they have that’s all you on each album. 

[dentalplan]

Korn actually seem more likely to headline than FFDP and ADTR and whoever else people have been on about recently. Don't think it will happen next year but as @seant007 says, they're not going away and are slowly realising their demand.

[SOAD]

I'd be happy with Korn headlining as like a lifetime achievement award. They could do a greatest hits set (which they generally do anyway) and smash it out the park. I sort of doubt it will happen but I'd love it.

[dentalplan]

10 minutes ago, SOAD said:

I'd be happy with Korn headlining as like a lifetime achievement award. They could do a greatest hits set (which they generally do anyway) and smash it out the park. I sort of doubt it will happen but I'd love it.

They couldn't do it as a lifetime achievement award or else they'd have some explaining to do when they book them as headliners again three years later.

[Pop Punk Sucks]

I think you could justify Korn headlining if it was a "LAST EVER UK TOUR/RUN/FESTIVAL PERFORMANCE" type deal, although the trouble with that is they'll probably still be going in 10 years time when they're not as good live as they are now. 

[thewayiam]

2 hours ago, Andre91 said:

It’s not that nobody gave them the push, it’s more that there wasn’t a heavy festival in the UK to give them that push when they were at their absolute peak and definitely headliner size in the late 90s / early 00s. Same for Bizkit and Manson and probably Deftones on White Pony when they were in arenas. 

I do think KoRn could headline in future, though. They’ve got an incredible live reputation these days and their last album has 3/4 bangers on it and when a band has been going as long as they have that’s all you on each album. 

This the same Manson that played 4th down Reading in 97 and subbed in 2001?, and Bizkit who played 5th down the bill in 2000. This during Reading's period of 5/6 years at their heaviest. Deftones, Slipknot and RATM all played across that 2000 fest. I'm not slating your view but a festival were either really in trouble and needed bands or starting up and didn't have the money if they were giving Bizkit the top spot.

[dentalplan]

Imagine judging Limp Bizkit's success on the festival placing they got before they released the single and album that made them the biggest band in the world. Booked to headline Milton Keynes Bowl in 2001? Why? They were only 5th down at Reading the year before!

[SOAD]

2 hours ago, thewayiam said:

This the same Manson that played 4th down Reading in 97 and subbed in 2001?, and Bizkit who played 5th down the bill in 2000. This during Reading's period of 5/6 years at their heaviest. Deftones, Slipknot and RATM all played across that 2000 fest. I'm not slating your view but a festival were either really in trouble and needed bands or starting up and didn't have the money if they were giving Bizkit the top spot.

Manson didn't play 4th down at Reading 1997 he got promoted to sub. If he had been playing a fest like Download he would have headlined between 1998 and 2001. Yes Reading was heavier in the past but 1997 still had Suede and Manic Street Preachers headline. While 2001 had Eminem, Travis and Manic Street Preachers. Hardly like they were going for a Download style audience with those headliners.

Edited January 12, 2018 by SOAD

[Andre91]

3 hours ago, thewayiam said:

This the same Manson that played 4th down Reading in 97 and subbed in 2001?, and Bizkit who played 5th down the bill in 2000. This during Reading's period of 5/6 years at their heaviest. Deftones, Slipknot and RATM all played across that 2000 fest. I'm not slating your view but a festival were either really in trouble and needed bands or starting up and didn't have the money if they were giving Bizkit the top spot.

Manson was an absolute world superstar between 96-01 and Bizkit were the biggest band on the planet come 2001 (as @dentalplan has said), so both would have comfortably headlined a Download style festival had there been one during that time. RATM weren’t a big band when they broke up. The time away is what made them a massive band. 

[dentalplan]

33 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Manson was an absolute world superstar between 96-01 and Bizkit were the biggest band on the planet come 2001 (as @dentalplan has said), so both would have comfortably headlined a Download style festival had there been one during that time. RATM weren’t a big band when they broke up. The time away is what made them a massive band. 

Limp Bizkit were meant to headline the first Download in 2003 so I’d say that one is proven.

[Gucci Piggy]

I wish I was old enough to properly experience a world where Limp Bizkit were the biggest band on the planet. That sounds hilarious.

[Andre91]

12 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Limp Bizkit were meant to headline the first Download in 2003 so I’d say that one is proven.

Oh yeah! Oh for sure  shame they pulled out because that might have made them another headline band to add to the pool for years to come. 

[Andre91]

8 minutes ago, Gucci Piggy said:

I wish I was old enough to properly experience a world where Limp Bizkit were the biggest band on the planet. That sounds hilarious.

Memories of Year 4/5 discos doing the actions to Rollin’ will stay with me forever. Also the memory of the DJ playing Stan and when it got to the ‘slit her throat’ part seeing my teacher giving the DJ the neck slash ‘NO MORE’ signal  

Lincolnshire’s primary school DJs didn’t mess around back in the day. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Andre91

[dentalplan]

30 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Oh yeah! Oh for sure  shame they pulled out because that might have made them another headline band to add to the pool for years to come. 

It might have done but I’m not sure. They fell down line ups everywhere else so I dunno if that coulda saved them. 

Just looking at the MK Bowl gig they were meant to do before they similarly pulled out; support was Deftones (who were touring White Pony), OutKast (who were touring Stankonia) and Godsmack. That coulda been a real significant gig - that’s peak of the scene stuff right there.

37 minutes ago, Gucci Piggy said:

I wish I was old enough to properly experience a world where Limp Bizkit were the biggest band on the planet. That sounds hilarious.

I remember it better in hindsight rather than particular memories like but yeah, the best thing was that Fred Durst and other nu metal types were fashion icons and there were so many people - grown ups, like - wearing baggy jeans and skater type stuff. Shit was insane.

Edited January 12, 2018 by dentalplan

[thewayiam]

14 hours ago, Andre91 said:

Manson was an absolute world superstar between 96-01 and Bizkit were the biggest band on the planet come 2001 (as @dentalplan has said), so both would have comfortably headlined a Download style festival had there been one during that time. RATM weren’t a big band when they broke up. The time away is what made them a massive band. 

A world superstar but still only subbing Reading which catered for all sorts and was defo one of the biggest festivals around at the time.

As for Bizkit, I get Download 03 but as said, it was starting out. A substantial brand like it is now etc, one like Reading who had them 5th, I'm not saying they weren't big...Kerrang played them constant but they weren't 5th down there and topping Download 09 let's say just for example...giving it a few years in and yes I know they had Metallica and L.P in 04. The thing there is if them two were topping only the 2nd one them Bizkit were not. HT was ridiculous in sales and popularity/everything compared. I don't dislike them btw but half their career is novelty....and I'm being generous.

[SOAD]

Bikit's popularity when they reunited is hugely different to their popularity at their peak. It doesn't matter if half their career is "novelty" they were massive at their peak. They easily would have headlined Download and they were going to. Doesn't matter if it was just starting out. They would have been big enough to headline if it was established. As far as Manson surely the fact he subbed a festival twice that caters to a wide array of styles, where he would have more competition, would mean that headlining a more niche festival would be very much in the equation. We have seen many instances of bands playing lower at more varied festivals but headlining Download. Both bands would have been very strong contenders to headline Download if it had started earlier and I would argue they both would have.

Edited January 13, 2018 by SOAD

[Pop Punk Sucks]

Think the question you need to answer really is, if Limp Bizkit, Manson and Deftones aren't headlining a theoretical 2/3 day Download Festival between 1997-2002, who is? 

I reckon it would probably be something like: 

1997: Rage Against The Machine, The Prodigy, Aerosmith

1998: Red Hot Chilli Peppers, The Offspring, Iron Maiden

1999: Metallica, Foo Fighters, Placebo 

2000: Green Day, Marilyn Manson, Kiss ("Last Ever Show")

2001: Limp Bizkit, Korn, Ozzy Ozbourne 

2002: The Prodigy, Metallica, Marilyn Manson

 

[DomDom1984]

I'd agree with all of them outside of Placebo, who I'm fairly sure were playing Academy sized venue by that point.

[Andre91]

2 hours ago, thewayiam said:

A world superstar but still only subbing Reading which catered for all sorts and was defo one of the biggest festivals around at the time.

As for Bizkit, I get Download 03 but as said, it was starting out. A substantial brand like it is now etc, one like Reading who had them 5th, I'm not saying they weren't big...Kerrang played them constant but they weren't 5th down there and topping Download 09 let's say just for example...giving it a few years in and yes I know they had Metallica and L.P in 04. The thing there is if them two were topping only the 2nd one them Bizkit were not. HT was ridiculous in sales and popularity/everything compared. I don't dislike them btw but half their career is novelty....and I'm being generous.

Yes, Reading did cater for all sorts, but it wasn’t a festival aimed at Manson’s target audience. Take SOAD as an example. They subbed Reading but would only ever headline Download because even though Reading caters for a variety, they aren’t catering to SOAD’s wider audience. The same for Manson in the late 90s / early 00s. 

I agree with all of those headliner combos pretty much, except Placebo and Green Day in 2000. I’d have Deftones in there probably in 2002 instead of Manson who would have only played two years previous. 

Interesting we’re saying this because That’s Not Metal are starting to do fantasy festival booking specials soon where they book a festival in a certain time period. The examples given were things like booking a Download 2001 lineup and a Monsters of Rock in 2018. 

Edited January 13, 2018 by Andre91

[stevieg1993]

1 hour ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

Think the question you need to answer really is, if Limp Bizkit, Manson and Deftones aren't headlining a theoretical 2/3 day Download Festival between 1997-2002, who is? 

I reckon it would probably be something like: 

1997: Rage Against The Machine, The Prodigy, Aerosmith

1998: Red Hot Chilli Peppers, The Offspring, Iron Maiden

1999: Metallica, Foo Fighters, Placebo 

2000: Green Day, Marilyn Manson, Kiss ("Last Ever Show")

2001: Limp Bizkit, Korn, Ozzy Ozbourne 

2002: The Prodigy, Metallica, Marilyn Manson

 

I would of had Smashing Pumpkins for 2000, Machina Tour, announced a break up. Heavy tour. 

[Pop Punk Sucks]

1 hour ago, DomDom1984 said:

I'd agree with all of them outside of Placebo, who I'm fairly sure were playing Academy sized venue by that point.

 

No idea tbf, went for them purely on the basis they subbed Reading in 2000 so assumed they were somewhat sizeable at the time. 

[thewayiam]

5 hours ago, SOAD said:

Bikit's popularity when they reunited is hugely different to their popularity at their peak. It doesn't matter if half their career is "novelty" they were massive at their peak. They easily would have headlined Download and they were going to. Doesn't matter if it was just starting out. They would have been big enough to headline if it was established. As far as Manson surely the fact he subbed a festival twice that caters to a wide array of styles, where he would have more competition, would mean that headlining a more niche festival would be very much in the equation. We have seen many instances of bands playing lower at more varied festivals but headlining Download. Both bands would have been very strong contenders to headline Download if it had started earlier and I would argue they both would have.

I get that but to play 5th down Reading but headline Download is a bit too far, to play 5th down and 3rd down Download like FFDP did is a bit more like it.....sub if you were on a real struggle but at that time the gap wasn't so different that Reading didn't book heavy bands.

4 hours ago, Pop Punk Sucks said:

Think the question you need to answer really is, if Limp Bizkit, Manson and Deftones aren't headlining a theoretical 2/3 day Download Festival between 1997-2002, who is? 

I reckon it would probably be something like: 

1997: Rage Against The Machine, The Prodigy, Aerosmith

1998: Red Hot Chilli Peppers, The Offspring, Iron Maiden

1999: Metallica, Foo Fighters, Placebo 

2000: Green Day, Marilyn Manson, Kiss ("Last Ever Show")

2001: Limp Bizkit, Korn, Ozzy Ozbourne 

2002: The Prodigy, Metallica, Marilyn Manson

 

If that is your 2001 options I think they would have struggled of had a very bad top like year like they did in many views on 2008 I believe it was. Tbf it wasn't even in most views it just generally was, although not blaming anybody for that.

3 hours ago, DomDom1984 said:

I'd agree with all of them outside of Placebo, who I'm fairly sure were playing Academy sized venue by that point.

Agreed, they weren't at that level by then. Tbf they only ever subbed Reading at their peakso weren't likely to headline Download at Reading catered more for them I believe.

3 hours ago, Andre91 said:

Yes, Reading did cater for all sorts, but it wasn’t a festival aimed at Manson’s target audience. Take SOAD as an example. They subbed Reading but would only ever headline Download because even though Reading caters for a variety, they aren’t catering to SOAD’s wider audience. The same for Manson in the late 90s / early 00s. 

I agree with all of those headliner combos pretty much, except Placebo and Green Day in 2000. I’d have Deftones in there probably in 2002 instead of Manson who would have only played two years previous. 

Interesting we’re saying this because That’s Not Metal are starting to do fantasy festival booking specials soon where they book a festival in a certain time period. The examples given were things like booking a Download 2001 lineup and a Monsters of Rock in 2018. 

SOAD only just made it back to headline at Download last time....and probably because Copping didn't trust anyone else because he wasn't happy they took sub at Reading and very nearly offered it them most likely....remember even if they could they haven't sold anything major for a long time and tbh their 2011 Download crowd wasn't that big at all, there was loads of space if you went a bit further back.

I disagree Reading didn't cater for Manson back then, it was a proper rock festival back then, he just never quote made that level. I think it's difficult for us to say what Download would have had, had it started in 97 and been established in 99, 00 etc. I'll agree that the odd sub Reading act might have made it to the top at Download but lower than that I don't, rock was very strong back then, nothing was really above it in that time so it wasn't a we gave to take what we can and cut corners time.