Jump to content

This morning...


The Red Telephone
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

3 hours ago, russycarps said:

yep, and people are slowly realising the gap between rich and poor is absolutely massive, and things are getting much much worse as the austerity measures kick in. In the current where information is freely available, it is no longer possible for the establishment to put up smoke and mirrors. People are sick of it and want change. So anyone offering change will be successful. It doesnt matter what the change is. 

 

 

 

That ^^^

I think so many people feel disenfranchised, in this country and the states. So disenfranchised that they are grasping at straws ...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today's been tough.

Seems a bit daft considering this latest political clusterfuck is the one which affects me the least (American 'sneezing and the rest of the world catch a cold' factor aside), but it's simply down to the cumulative factor. This is the latest in a line of sick to the gut feelings I've had that started on the morning of 19th September 2014, followed by the Tory GE election victory, the Paris attacks and the EU referendum and culminating in this absolute w*nker winning today.

As someone who's prided themselves on being a supporter of progressive, inclusive politics today feels like the straw that broke the camels back. Today finally cemented the fact that the politics of fear and hate will always defeat the politics of hope. Partly because the latter is too vague and unsure of itself to stand against the powerful rhetoric of the former, but also - quite simply - because it seems more and more people across the world are happier to subscribe to it. What I'd consider reasonable, measured views on issues like immigration, the economy and social justice are increasingly shown to be against the will of the majority. I'm as guilty as anyone of living in a bubble, after after the repeating prodding of the last two and a bit years, the bubble has burst. 

The left, in the UK, Europe and across the world, is in a complete mess. Unorganised and uncoordinated, fractured and more interested in fighting against it's most likely allies than against it's natural enemy. It has few leaders and even fewer of those are in a position to make a difference. The 'People's Front of Judea' cliche has seldom been more true than it is today. 

I've always been into politics, studied it at uni, have been a member of political parties, have always voted, have always tried to affect positive change - today it feels like I've spent most of my adult life trying to fight a battle we'd already lost.

Given my Star Wars fanboy status there's usually always a good Empire-related quote or analogy for these situations but today (at risk of incurring the wrath of the Star Wars fanboy community) the thing that keeps running around and around in my head is the quote from Theoden's speech in the Two Towers; "What can men do against such reckless hate?" 

I don't know how to answer that anymore. I feel like I'm now going spend the rest of my life, not trying to help make society a better place but just trying to stop myself turning into one of 'them'.

All that and Bowie died. Congratulations 2016, you have broken me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Today's been tough.

The left, in the UK, Europe and across the world, is in a complete mess. Unorganized and uncoordinated, fractured and more

We need to do something about that....

Edited by bamber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ouch Swedge.  Right in the proverbial feels.

For me it's about keeping on that path even it's ultimately futile and doomed to failure.  Accepting that's the way the world is is painful but realistic; the trick is to keep going regardless.  When I stop caring and let my views be moulded into that majority, then you can stick me in a box.

 

download.jpg

Edited by Quark
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Children,

Please stop listening to adults, nevermind how much we claim to be right. We destroyed the planet, partially based initially on ignorance, but then carried on doing it when we understood what we were doing.

We can't treat people fairly or equally and can't live in peace with each other.

Do your own thing without any advice from us, hopefully you learn to care and love more than hate and fear, and if not, you can't do any worse than those before you.

Good luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, not worthy said:

Dear Children,

Please stop listening to adults, nevermind how much we claim to be right. We destroyed the planet, partially based initially on ignorance, but then carried on doing it when we understood what we were doing.

We can't treat people fairly or equally and can't live in peace with each other.

Do your own thing without any advice from us, hopefully you learn to care and love more than hate and fear, and if not, you can't do any worse than those before you.

Good luck

American Children.... English Children.......

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2016, surely with only 52 days to go there is nothing else to come?

 

 

As I walk through
This wicked world
Searchin' for light in the darkness of insanity.

I ask myself
Is all hope lost?
Is there only pain and hatred, and misery?

And each time I feel like this inside,
There's one thing I wanna know:
What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh
What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?

And as I walked on
Through troubled times
My spirit gets so downhearted sometimes
So where are the strong
And who are the trusted?
And where is the harmony?
Sweet harmony.

'Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry.
What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? Ohhhh
What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

As someone who's prided themselves on being a supporter of progressive, inclusive politics today feels like the straw that broke the camels back. Today finally cemented the fact that the politics of fear and hate will always defeat the politics of hope. Partly because the latter is too vague and unsure of itself to stand against the powerful rhetoric of the former, 

Or not strong enough in its message. Hillarys campaign was fucking appallingly weak in that regard. An embarrassment. What did she offer? "Err, sort of the same stuff that you're used to, oh and hes crazy".

Corbyn. The same. Weak as fuck.

Show a bit of fucking fight

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, not worthy said:

Dear Children,

Please stop listening to adults, nevermind how much we claim to be right. We destroyed the planet, partially based initially on ignorance, but then carried on doing it when we understood what we were doing.

We can't treat people fairly or equally and can't live in peace with each other.

Do your own thing without any advice from us, hopefully you learn to care and love more than hate and fear, and if not, you can't do any worse than those before you.

Good luck


Children, don't grow up,
Our bodies get bigger, but our hearts get torn up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, russycarps said:

yep, and people are slowly realising the gap between rich and poor is absolutely massive, and things are getting much much worse as the austerity measures kick in. In the current era where information is freely available, it is no longer possible for the establishment to put up smoke and mirrors. People are sick of it and want change. So anyone offering change will be successful. It doesnt matter what the change is. 

Obviously if you are a home owner with a comfortable income you will be unaware of all this.

 

 

There lies the crux of the problem. It is alright liberal lefties and those in charge preaching to those who have little,  when the issues that occur do not affect them, as they are tucked away nice and happy in their 4 bedroom detached house.

We need to ask ourselves why people feel like they had to vote for Brexit rather than calling them thick, ignorant, racist, bigoted and so on. Is it so bad that people would risk everything on the unknown? When you have nothing to lose then I suppose it is.

Now my politics are to the left of centre. I have my own house and I suppose that I come under the educated bracket now.

Yet I choose to live in inner city Manchester, right in the heart of one of the poorest areas. This is where I am from and grew up, so although my circumstances have changed, it is home for me. Now although I do not agree with peoples opinions round here, I can understand why they have the views they have.

People are fed up. It could be with the fact it takes 2 weeks to get a doctors appointment, no places for kids in schools, can't even get jobs on emplyment agencies because they are only recruiting eastern European countries, gyms being shut down, libraries closing. The list could go on and on. Then to confound matters you have liberal lefties chucking insults and calling them all thick while the politicians stand by idly watching it go on.

Brexit was not about one issue, neither was it voted for by thick and racist people. Most are hard working people who are just sick of getting shit on from above.

It really is a case of those that have,  not seeing the wood for the trees. It is alright when you are living in the utopia of a safe European home. For years those with very little have had to put up with all sorts of shit. This was a protest vote en masse. For the 1st time  those of us in the middle (not really poor or really rich) are feeling nervous. It is like our bubble is about to burst and we don't know what to do. Now instead of dealing with the issues that have made people feel like they needed to vote for Brexit, people are just slinging mud. The sad part is that only the really rich will benefit from Brexit. Those that voted out, have imo made the future very difficult for the vast majority of us. Yet when you have been ignored for so long and you have nothing to lose, can you actually blame them.

As for the USA, I am utterly gobsmacked he got in. Clinton must be really despised. I do not know enough about American Politics to comment. What I do know is, if Clinton and Trump are your 2 best candidates to lead your countey then your country is fucked and nothing should shock you.

Edited by eastynh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, eastynh said:

There lies the crux of the problem. It is alright liberal lefties and those in charge preaching to those who have little,  when the issues that occur do not affect them, as they are tucked away nice and happy in their 4 bedroom detached house.

We need to ask ourselves why people feel like they had to vote for Brexit rather than calling them thick, ignorant, racist, bigoted and so on. Is it so bad that people would risk everything on the unknown? When you have nothing to lose then I suppose it is.

Now my politics are to the left of centre. I have my own house and I suppose that I come under the educated bracket now.

Yet I choose to live in inner city Manchester, right in the heart of one of the poorest areas. This is where I am from and grew up, so although my circumstances have changed, it is home for me. Now although I do not agree with peoples opinions round here, I can understand why they have the views they have.

People are fed up. It could be with the fact it takes 2 weeks to get a doctors appointment, no places for kids in schools, can't even get jobs on emplyment agencies because they are only recruiting eastern European countries, gyms being shut down, libraries closing. The list could go on and on. Then to confound matters you have liberal lefties chucking insults and calling them all thick while the politicians stand by idly watching it go on.

Brexit was not about one issue, neither was it voted for by thick and racist people. Most people hard working and just sick of getting shit on from above.

It really is a case of that have,  not seeing the wood for the trees. It is alright when you are living in the utopia of a safe European. For years those with very little have had to put up with all sorts of shit. This was a protest vote en masse. For the 1st time  those of us in the middle (not really poor or really rich) are feeling nervous. It is like our bubble is about to burst and we don't know what to do. Now instead of dealing with the issues that have made people feel like they needed to vote for Brexit, people are just slinging mud. The sad part is that only the really rich will benefit from Brexit. Those that voted out, have imo made the future very difficult for the vast majority of us. Yet when you have been ignored for so long and you have nothing to lose, can you actually blame them.

As for the USA, I am utterly gobsmacked he got in. Clinton must be really despised. I do not know enough about American Politics to comment. What I do know is, if Clinton and Trump are your 2 best candidates to lead your countey then your country is fucked and nothing should shock you.

Couple of things on that one Easty, and some of these may have been deliberate to make the point so bear with me...

Amazingly, being called a liberal leftie is just as fucking annoying as being called a thick ignorant racist kipper.  It's up there with using do-gooder as an insult, like it's an inherently bad thing to be.

Secondly, and unfortunately, there will have been Brexit (and Trump) votes based on ignorance, racism and prejudice.  It's not like everyone who voted Leave is an honest hardworking cockernee boy who loves his old mum and struggles to feed the nippers.  Some will just be c*nts who think that by voting leave all immigrants are going to be deported.

Look at the reaction to the court ruling on the process having to go through Parliaments - a lot of people genuinely don't understand what has been ruled and what the implications are, but they're angry about it anyway.

Otherwise, I agree with you.  I don't know if protest vote is the right way of putting it, but yes.  The mud is being slung in every direction, and the overall atmosphere is one of fear and mistrust.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Matt Bellamy voted for Brexit. The day before he took to the stage as headliner of Glastonbury 2016 he voted Leave.

As he was entitled to do.  As any of us were entitled to do. Don't agree with it, but that's the joy of voting (thanks Cameron btw).

It's a knotty discussion to have around the rights or wrongs.  It's entirely possible to have voted for the "wrong" thing for entirely sensible, logical, rational and well-thought through reasons.  Equally you can vote for the "right" thing on the basis of a gut feeling. I did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hasn't Atlas Shrugged been the most read book in America this century?  With Rand's followers being the people who took us into the financial crash of 2008 which saw their opponents come to power and stall their plans.  That an archetypal Randian hero has been placed to do the job this time we shouldn't be at all surprised.  This isn't an isolated and surprising event, it is part of a larger narrative.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Quark said:

Couple of things on that one Easty, and some of these may have been deliberate to make the point so bear with me...

Amazingly, being called a liberal leftie is just as fucking annoying as being called a thick ignorant racist kipper.  It's up there with using do-gooder as an insult, like it's an inherently bad thing to be.

Secondly, and unfortunately, there will have been Brexit (and Trump) votes based on ignorance, racism and prejudice.  It's not like everyone who voted Leave is an honest hardworking cockernee boy who loves his old mum and struggles to feed the nippers.  Some will just be c*nts who think that by voting leave all immigrants are going to be deported.

Look at the reaction to the court ruling on the process having to go through Parliaments - a lot of people genuinely don't understand what has been ruled and what the implications are, but they're angry about it anyway.

Otherwise, I agree with you.  I don't know if protest vote is the right way of putting it, but yes.  The mud is being slung in every direction, and the overall atmosphere is one of fear and mistrust.

Mate this is a music and Glastonbury Forum. I appreciate the links between politics and the festival, but it is not something I wish to get embroiled with on here. I said a little and would rather leave it there now.

I don't agree with people voting for Brexit, but from my vantage point, I perfectly understand why people did. You are right, there are deep divisions running through the country and how we solve them, I have no idea. There are some deeply uncertain and scary times ahead for all us all I think. 

The words from Depeche Mode - Everything Counts seem very apt this afternoon.

Edit - Forum not thread.

Edited by eastynh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Quark said:

Meh. I've just accepted that we now live in world where the majority opinion is to be frightened, angry, selfish, inward-looking, nationalistic, judgmental and indifferent to others.

It just makes me sad.

I couldn't have articulated it any better .history teaches us that people never learn 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...