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The Red Telephone
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35 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

ahhhh, more eternal damnation via the unproven.

As you're so keen on it, I guess you're all for Trump's suggested Muslim register on the basis of the unproven too....? No? Then stop being the same arsehole on the same arsehole basis as Trump.

The better world comes by being better, not by being the same.

Its perfectly valid to say there is a lack of women representation in Trumps cabinet.

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6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yep, but that's something very different to what you did. 

What aren't you getting about how you're doing the exact same thing as Trump?

Not really. Im just bringing out the remarkable coincidence about his teams history of being accused of spousal abuse whilst also making a point about of lack of women in his team. 

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9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Not really. Im just bringing out the remarkable coincidence about his teams history of being accused of spousal abuse whilst also making a point about of lack of women in his team. 

Accusations are not proof. :rolleyes:

Trump has accused all Mexicans in Mexico of being rapists.

You accuse Trump's sidekicks of being wife-beaters.

What can't you recognise about both being unproven slurs?

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12 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Accusations are not proof. :rolleyes:

Trump has accused all Mexicans in Mexico of being rapists.

You accuse Trump's sidekicks of being wife-beaters.

What can't you recognise about both being unproven slurs?

Well, in the case of trump and his sidekicks, there were in the form of sworn testimony to the court. 

 

Anyway, i made it clear they were accused of abuse. Not that they were convicted. 

Those two instances are very different. 

Edited by zahidf
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16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Well, in the case of trump and his sidekicks, there were in the form of sworn testimony to the court. 

No shit sherlock. :lol:

It was testimony that was also rejected as unproven by those courts.

 

Quote

 

Anyway, i made it clear they were accused of abuse. Not that they were convicted. 

Those two instances are very different. 

Yep, and Trump accuses all Mexicans of being racists and all Muslims of being potential terrorists. All accused, and none convicted.

Go on, tell me again that's different to what you're doing. :lol:

Being like Trump makes you just like Trump.

Edited by eFestivals
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10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No shit sherlock. :lol:

It was testimony that was also rejected as unproven by those courts.

 

Yep, and Trump accuses all Mexicans of being racists and all Muslims of being potential terrorists. All accused, and none convicted.

Go on, tell me again that's different to what you're doing. :lol:

Being like Trump makes you just like Trump.

No he didnt. Said they were all rapists and terrorists. I said him and his mates were accused of abuse. Again, different 

 

Actually, the cases were dropped after their former partners recieved an 'undisclosed settlement'. So they did a michael jackson.

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6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

No he didnt. Said they were all rapists and terrorists. 

No he did not.

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

Stay of Twitter Zahidf, for fucks sake.

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5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

No he didnt. Said they were all rapists and terrorists. I said him and his mates were accused of abuse. Again, different 

Trump's mates were accused of a crime, and Trump accuses Mexicans and Muslims of crime.

What aren't you getting about unproven accusations being unproven accusations...?

 

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Actually, the cases were dropped after their former partners recieved an 'undisclosed settlement'. So they did a michael jackson.

except they did it within the moral boundaries, unlike when Bill Clinton paid off his rape-accuser.

i'm trying to defend nothing of Trump's sidekicks.

I'm pointing out that an unproven accusation by YOU is nothing different to an unproven accusation by Trump.

If he's evil personified for stepping over the line, you're nothing different.

If you want to think of yourself as different and better than Trump, you need to think and act differently to him and not imitate his methods. :rolleyes:

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It's statistically aberrant to have that many people accused of sexual assault in the cabinet though. What that means is open to interpretation but I think it's fair to ask the question of why. In the same way it's fair to ask why there are more Muslim than Christian terrorists.

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38 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

It's statistically aberrant to have that many people accused of sexual assault in the cabinet though. What that means is open to interpretation but I think it's fair to ask the question of why. In the same way it's fair to ask why there are more Muslim than Christian terrorists.

I'm not thinking there's nothing zahidf has raised which isn't worthy of discussion.

(mind you, that discussion should also include Bill Clinton paying off his rape-accuser and Hillary's involvement in that, too).

But what he's doing is something different to being that, and the manner he's using to do what he's doing is the same manner as Trump - which he says it wrong when Trump does it.

If Trump's sidekicks are guilty via their association to an unproven allegation, then that's a free hand for Trump to use the same reasoning against Muslims, Mexicans, blacks, trade unionists, political opponents and anything else he fancies.

You don't show Trump as being a dick by being the same dick.

Edited by eFestivals
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I think this conversation, highlight's why the right wing populism are in a far stronger position currently. They have succeeded in highlighting the double standards of the left and instead of addressing these issues and tackling them head on, the left have gone for the tactic of mudslinging and counter accusation as a response; which fits further into the the right wing narrative currently being peddled that the left duck the issues therefore making claims such as "all muslims are potential terrorists" must be true without needing credible evidence. 

Obviously this isn't the only reason for the expansion of far right populism but their control over the current narrative, particuarly on social media is a big one.

10 hours ago, eFestivals said:

You don't show Trump as being a dick by being the same dick.

And this is spot on as it is self defeatist and frankly immature from the left

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Populism arises from time to time all through our more recent history. It is properly defined as a democratic revolt of sorts against a ruling elite. It is without question what is happening now. The thing that is different now is that the populism we see if multifaceted. There are many flavours. It is all of course horse shit. In time, and it may well take a decade, we will all realize that any populist agenda does not. cannot, never has and never will deliver, and we will all return to the one thing that has ever, and ever will deliver, and that is progressive, liberal, democratic socialism, navigated by a well educated liberal elite. We just have to wait this one out.

By any tangible measure, the most people in this world ever in history that are living free of poverty, and have access to food, water and education, are living right now. We have a retrograde stage ahead of us, but it is a passing phase.

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  • 1 month later...

@efestivals whats your views on Tristram H leaving to join the V&A and forcing a by election in Stoke on Trent. Prime UKIP territory judging by John Harris video report in the Guardian in neighbouring constituency prior to Brexit vote. JC in for some interseting times what with Copeland as well.

 

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2 minutes ago, Harry49 said:

@efestivals whats your views on Tristram H leaving to join the V&A and forcing a by election in Stoke on Trent. Prime UKIP territory judging by John Harris video report in the Guardian in neighbouring constituency prior to Brexit vote. JC in for some interseting times what with Copeland as well.

 

go see the general news discussion topic in the discussions forum, where i've already raised it.

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On 10/12/2016 at 1:19 AM, bamber said:

Populism arises from time to time all through our more recent history. It is properly defined as a democratic revolt of sorts against a ruling elite. It is without question what is happening now. The thing that is different now is that the populism we see if multifaceted. There are many flavours. It is all of course horse shit. In time, and it may well take a decade, we will all realize that any populist agenda does not. cannot, never has and never will deliver, and we will all return to the one thing that has ever, and ever will deliver, and that is progressive, liberal, democratic socialism, navigated by a well educated liberal elite. We just have to wait this one out.

By any tangible measure, the most people in this world ever in history that are living free of poverty, and have access to food, water and education, are living right now. We have a retrograde stage ahead of us, but it is a passing phase.

Only just read this, but am, unfortuately, out of up votes. I'm still sratching my head as to why it got down voted.

Hope you are well bamber. :)

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5 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Nice one oneeye. :)

I haven't forgotten the port; this year, bring a cup :)

or just drink from the bottle (plastic) 

Edited by oneeye
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56 minutes ago, oneeye said:

I haven't forgotten the port; this year, bring a cup :)

or just drink from the bottle (plastic) 

I have a confession to make, in that I don't actually like port. That said, I did drink a bit of it from a small bottle that was given to us this Christmas and it was OK - however that may have been influenced by the fact that there was no other alcohol in the house (or money to get some).

As an aside, THAT t shirt went missing ages ago. I thought about it on many a time and wondered where it had got to. Then we  moved house fairly recently and when moving our bed found that the 'offending' t shirt shoot out from one of the drawers that makes the bed base. You may, or may not, be pleased to know that I celebrated our re-union by wearing it on Christmas Day just gone.

Hope you are well, and hopefully see you in June. :)

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When I first started reading this forum the words of @bamber stood out as the voice of sense, a compassionate and realistic viewpoint that genuinely looks to the needs of all.  Thanks for never changing.  Sorry I ran out of upvotes.

Too often these days I hear views that suggest that the way we live today is somehow the inevitable and unchangeable future we face.  I disbelieve this and hope for a better future, where the Bambers of this world get to have a say, get to make a difference and get to move us forwards towards a better age.

I'm slightly drunk tonight, so I raise a glass to a socialist future where all this shit is forgotten

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