Liam Fray slams classist snobs who criticise northern fans

[eastynh]

6 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

You just trying to prove it's not just Northern bands you link to? 

Well I am not into Nick Cave, thats for certain. He sounds like a cow moaning while it is waiting to be slaughtered.

[eastynh]

 

[Quark]

22 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

Please don't! C'mon Qurk, you've been here long enough now.

Sorry Scruff!

So for me, being a sheltered southern wuss as my in-laws remind me, it's less about your initial internal reaction to something and more about how you act on it. 

Never an easy one to explain without sounding like a dick unfortunately. Your first gut feeling about something is uncontrollable and governed by years of social conditioning, media messages, upbringing, past experiences etc. Your reaction to it is a conscious choice made by an adult.

So, big group of football fan youths coming up the street messing about and singing and generally being a bit loud and boisterous.

Gut reaction - little bit intimidating, read in the paper about gangs of hoodies, had some issues where I grew up with a few groups of similar.

Adult brain - nothing they're doing suggests any aggression, they're just messing around with their mates, no worse than I've done many times as a rugby fan / player. So nothing to worry about.

I don't know if that makes sense.  It's turned into a ramble.

In summary we all eat, shit and sleep.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Quark

[eastynh]

1 minute ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

*All attempts at reasonable discussion with eastynh now ended. He is obviously deaf.*

Radiohead, Nick Cave, Leonard Cohen and Joy Division. Just not my type of music mate. I am a bit of a happy clapper. I am the guy that has a smile on his face at 7am on a Monday morning. 

[Padgey]

1 hour ago, eastynh said:

Mate I am not going to go through posts and threads looking for comments. You can go search yourself. Go check Courtneeners threads for comments about their crowds. Have a look at ones about James, go look at threads about other stage opener and the shitty northern has been opener set, comments about the Manchester uniform of Pretty Green even though no one actually wears Pretty Green. How often have we seen the Kevin and Perry sketch posted over the years?? Then have a look at comments directed towards myself over the past 2 years which I take in good humour as I find funny. 

I know it's difficult to read the tone of posts sometimes but I find a lot of comments are tongue in cheek and not derogatory, mine very much so.

I do agree there are a lot of varied tastes on here and people will always have their opinions on acts, more so if they don't like them I find.  At the end of the day these are just opinions, there's plenty of acts that get mentioned on this forum who I check out and just don't get it but if someone else likes them then fair enough.  If you can't say something nice then don't say it at all is my view. 

[eastynh]

1 minute ago, Quark said:

Sorry Scruff!

So for me, being a sheltered southern wuss as my in-laws remind me, it's less about your initial internal reaction to something and more about how you act on it. 

Never an easy one to explain without sounding like a dick unfortunately. Your first gut feeling about something is uncontrollable and governed by years of social conditioning, media messages, upbringing, past experiences etc. Your reaction to it is a conscious choice made by an adult.

So, big group of football fan youths coming up the street messing about and singing and generally being a bit loud and boisterous.

Gut reaction - little bit intimidating, read in the paper about gangs of hoodies, had some issues where I grew up with a few groups of similar.

Adult brain - nothing they're doing suggests any aggression, they're just messing around with their mates, no worse than I've done many times as a rugby fan / player. So nothing to worry about.

I don't know if that makes sense.  It's turned into a ramble.

In summary we all eat, shit and sleep.

Put it far more succinctly than I ever could mate :-D

[eastynh]

1 minute ago, Padgey said:

I know it's difficult to read the tone of posts sometimes but I find a lot of comments are tongue in cheek and not derogatory, mine very much so.

I do agree there are a lot of varied tastes on here and people will always have their opinions on acts, more so if they don't like them I find.  At the end of the day these are just opinions, there's plenty of acts that get mentioned on this forum who I check out and just don't get it but if someone else likes them then fair enough.  If you can't say something nice then don't say it at all is my view. 

To be fair mate there has not been a single person who I have come across on this forum who I thought that I would not have pint with. That says a lot about the forum on the whole.

[Quark]

1 minute ago, eastynh said:

Put it far more succinctly than I ever could mate :-D

Love you easty

2 minutes ago, eastynh said:

I am the guy that has a smile on his face at 7am on a Monday morning. 

Hate you easty

[eastynh]

1 minute ago, Quark said:

Love you easty

Hate you easty

Hahaha I must be Ned Flanders scally cousin.

[bamber]

It could all be so simple....

Watch this and settle your minds.

 

[Amy Lawn]

On 11/1/2016 at 5:05 PM, Hugh Jass said:

HMV on Market St must have been busy.

It's a Poundland now.

Couldn't tell you whether they stock The Courteeners' new album though, if I'm in there it's to get me some cheap Toblerones.

[Bobs]

Oh it's there alright.... I mean, if there has ever been such thing as a North/South divide, then Music is your best observation.

Obviously, it's a HUGE generalisation, on his behalf (and maybe a few sour grapes, as they really aren't very big from anywhere South of Birmingham), but there is definitely a bit of snobbery when it comes to 'Northern Lad' bands, from people who aren't in to that. Maybe snobbery is a misleading word, as I mean to name an example, if one person likes rock climbing, and I absolutely do not, but they rave about it ALL the time, I'm probably going to sit there and wonder why? It's not even good? 

I'd say if he'd have went with the idea of.... 'People who don't get us, and our fans, tend to judge us', would have been a much more suitable phrase, and if this thread is anything to go by, I'd say it's very much true, as there are a whole host of Northerners who disagree with his comments. 

 

But can we all just stop for a second, and realise, than you probably should disregard this whole episode anyway, as it's coming from the mouth of Liam Fray, who is quite simply, the biggest wannabe snob of all time ! That's coming from a HUGE Courteeners fan.... Oh, and the new Album is shit. Pretentious tit.

[CaledonianGonzo]

10 minutes ago, Bobs said:

here is definitely a bit of snobbery when it comes to 'Northern Lad' bands, from people who aren't in to that.

Don't you think it's the "lad" element that's more likely to incur disdain than the  "Northern" one.

(I believe that some people have been known to indulge in some mild ribbing  of lad culture from time to time)

Someone brainier than me could probably cogitate on the love of post-Britpop reactionary "proper indie" as an expression of white male working class identity in a world where class divisions are widening again and men are feeling emasculated by third wave feminism, but I honestly dunno if it says anything about anything.

[Spindles]

7 hours ago, eastynh said:

Not really sure it is a class thing, rather than just being  human nature. People whether we like it or not can be wary of things that are not similar to themselves.

I have seen people who sniff shitloads of coke abuse and look down their noses at people who smoke crack, while failing to notice the irony of it being pretty much the exact same drug.

Beautifully put.

19 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Don't you think it's the "lad" element that's more likely to incur disdain than the  "Northern" one.

This innit.  

There has always been a tendency by society at large to demonise the poor as well, labels make that easy (like Chav, remember that one that is now dropping out of fashion?  Originally a word referring to a particular 'lad' archetype that existed in urban areas but eventually dragged out to cover anyone who was young and seen as being below the middle classes).  I don't think you can particularly blame the media either, this sort of thing was going on in the last couple of centuries at least.

[fur_q]

I tried to raise the point earlier in the therad around just what the term middle class actually means. From experience here it seems almost everyone on this forum is reluctant to define themselves as middle class. So is middle class in reality just a term we're applying to anyone we perceive to be in a better economic situation than ourselves. (See cartoon below about hipsters but I feel relevant to the way we define class in this country). One of the reasons I say this is that reading up about Liam Fray, both his parents where in 'professions' (teachers) and he went to uni to study economics and creative writing so he himself is not exactly the exemplar of northern working class culture. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by fur_q

[eFestivals]

23 hours ago, eastynh said:

It shocks me a little how people on here seem so against and bewildered by. home team support. To an extent I can understand it with younger contributors to the forum but for people from my generation it is a bit strange to say the least.

Is it? It's not something I've ever done.

I like music because it's good, which has got fuck all to do with whether it's from my town, region, country or continent.

Liking music cos it's from nearby is one for those of a little Englander mentality - and which is mostly seen outside of England on this Isle, tho within England, it's mostly a northern thing.

[Gozpot]

Olly Murs and Matt Cardle are from where I live, I still think their music is terrible.

Whats the point in supporting an artist just because they're local and not because they're actually any good?

[Comfy Bean]

54 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Is it? It's not something I've ever done.

I like music because it's good, which has got fuck all to do with whether it's from my town, region, country or continent.

Liking music cos it's from nearby is one for those of a little Englander mentality - and which is mostly seen outside of England on this Isle, tho within England, it's mostly a northern thing.

Back in the olden times, young band starting out play first gig in small local hall, pub backroom or school hall. Crowd mostly pals and family.

If lucky, get 20 mins at local venue as support act for the support act. Friends, family and a few friends of friends turn up early and stand at the front.

That's how I read eastys post and for sure this scenario wasn't mostly a northern thing was it? 

I also read in eastys post that he doesn't know, or care, where 95% of his own record collection originates from ( you omitted that bit from his post when you quoted it).

 

 

 

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Back in the olden times, young band starting out play first gig in small local hall, pub backroom or school hall. Crowd mostly pals and family.

If lucky, get 20 mins at local venue as support act for the support act. Friends, family and a few friends of friends turn up early and stand at the front.

That's how I read eastys post and for sure this scenario wasn't mostly a northern thing was it? 

I also read in eastys post that he doesn't know, or care, where 95% of his own record collection originates from ( you omitted that bit from his post when you quoted it).

bands start off that way, yep .... but we're talking a small number of people for that, when whole towns/regions/countries sometimes take up the same 'local' theme.

It wasn't a phenomenon I was even aware of outside of Liverpool/the beatles until I started doing efests, when how the 'local' thing goes on particularly strongly from Scotland and Wales hit me. You might have occasionally seen me joking post about how Scotland adopts acts as Scottish who once farted north of the border (Rod Stewart and Snow Patrol are examples of that).

 

[eastynh]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Is it? It's not something I've ever done.

I like music because it's good, which has got fuck all to do with whether it's from my town, region, country or continent.

Liking music cos it's from nearby is one for those of a little Englander mentality - and which is mostly seen outside of England on this Isle, tho within England, it's mostly a northern thing.

Why do Massive Attack play massive events then in Bristol and down south but play academies up north then? That is just one example of the top of my head. 

I am making some breakfast so will reply properly later. You have totally missed the point I was making and you have for some reason labelled northerners as little Englanders, which is exactly the attitude Liam Fray is trying to make a point about.

How hard is it understand? People up here like music from everywhere, it does not matter where it comes from. The north has always been outward looking in regards to its music, be that northern soul or house music arriving from chicago. Yet for some strange reason people down south seem to have a bone of contention in regards to people from the north watching a band from the north. Is it ok for someone down south to watch a band from the north then? 

[Amy Lawn]

Lots of bands are more popular in the area where the residents call a barmcake the same thing that the band calls a barmcake. The Courteeners are one of them, and they're also shit. Thread over, let's all have a brew.

[Quark]

4 minutes ago, GETOFFAMYLAWN said:

Lots of bands are more popular in the area where the residents call a barmcake the same thing that the band calls a barmcake. The Courteeners are one of them, and they're also shit. Thread over, let's all have a brew.

Tea or coffee?

 

[Amy Lawn]

I don't know if this is the argument that was kicking off while I was in the wilderness last week, but a brew is obviously tea. Coffee is coffee.

[Quark]

You're no fun.

But agree with the sentiment 100%. This is what happens when the band announcements dry up, everyone turns on each other!

Come on Eavii, something to tide us over

[Woffy]

26 minutes ago, Quark said:

You're no fun.

But agree with the sentiment 100%. This is what happens when the band announcements dry up, everyone turns on each other!

Come on Eavii, something to tide us over

There's always the Cliff Richard thread to turn to.