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Alan_C

Liam Fray slams classist snobs who criticise northern fans

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Fuck 'im. Fuck 'em. People can be twats wherever they're from. I've known northern, southern, old and young twats. Blur twats and Oasis twats.

Anyone spot the pattern?

Yours in perpetual drunkenness

Quark x

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It'd be worth noting that nobody gives a shit about them outside where they're from if they were a bunch of chinos banter yah private school chumps from Oxford.

I'm from the Courteeners' demographic, went to school with a load of fans, work with a load of fans, my sisters go to every gig they do. And they're fucking shit. And most people round here are thick. Most people around everywhere are thick; whether they're working class, middle class. Voting record of the British public will tell you that, along with the majority of popular culture.

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So is there a linear relationship between Northness and members of the Courteeners Appreciation Society? When are the Shetlands getting their homecoming gig? 

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3 hours ago, fur_q said:

As someone who grew up in Yorkshire and has lived in London for 13 years I think both the original comments and a lot of what's been said in this thread is just perpetuating stereotype that aren't really helpful. I think deferentiating working class and middle class is problematic in itself but the 'north' and London are both have very heterogeneous populations London still has huge amounts of what you could define as working class people (the ) and I'd say parts of the north are can be very exclusively middle class (and I'm not just talking about the obvious places). 

I'd say in terms of music some of the observation are in part down to cultural and ethnic differences between London and the north.  My experience is that indie/rock/guitar muisic is popular amongst those of what we are referring to as the working classes whereas  'working class' Londoners tend to be more interested in other forms of music such as grime, garage, dancehall hip hop. 

Take it from me. I am poor beyond what most of you will ever experience. I live a  northern fucked up life that Daniel Blake fuckin dreams of. I have great mates who make sure that my Glasto experience of 30 odd years continues. And I fucking HATE the  Courteeners. Not cos they are northern (please god, give us the bunnymen one more time: Pete burns' death is a sobering moment for us up here) butcos they try too hard.i hate people whose efforts are so obvious. 

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Working class people know how to enjoy themselves more than the rich.

The evidence is clear, the crowd at Glastonbury in the 80s and 90s was full of crusties and people who had to bunk in, and the atmosphere was absolutely electric. 

Nowadays these people are priced out and replaced by jemima and rupert from surrey, and cordelia and olly from cheshire. And surprise surprise the atmosphere is shite. See beck this year for further details.

Further proof can be found at any London gig where the mummy and daddy funded crowd of hipsters have paid £60 to studiously watch the band whilst stood like statues. Meanwhile at the dog and duck down the road the place is going mental at some cheap as chips karaoke night.

It's worth bearing in mind though that rich or poor, the majority of people on this God forsaken shithole of a country are complete c**ts. As evidenced by recent voting patterns. 

 

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29 minutes ago, russycarps said:

Working class people know how to enjoy themselves more than the rich.

The evidence is clear, the crowd at Glastonbury in the 80s and 90s was full of crusties and people who had to bunk in, and the atmosphere was absolutely electric. 

Do you honesty think that most crusties were working class?  Hmmmmm.....anecdotally, most crusties I ever met were middle class students or upper class people rebelling against a wealthy background.  

I guess the difference now is that in the absence of astudent grants or any other sort of decent social safety net that folk are less likely to tell mummy and daddy to do one.

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Northern people like to go out and have a good time where as I get impression people go out more to watch the band down south.

People seem to sneer at the likes of the Courteeners, Roses, James and so on getting big crowds in Manchester. People say they can only do it in Manchester. The ironic thing is that it is not just Manchester bands or northern bands that get big crowds up here, most bands and acts do. 

Everyone loves a gig up north and I have always found the people in the north have far more eclectic record collections than our southern cousins. 

They take it all far more seriously down south, we just want to have a good time. 

Southerners want to scratch their chins while the north want to dance.

Then again Tony Wilson once said

" There is no celebrity quite as powerful as the local, homegrown celebrity"

The bloke was right about most things.

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I was born and raised in Birmingham, spent 12 years (18-30) in Manchester, and the last five in London. From personal experience I'd say the Mancunians definitely know how to have a better time.

Doesn't mean the Courteeners aren't shit though. That's not snobbery, they're just shit.

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2 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Do you honesty think that most crusties were working class?  Hmmmmm.....anecdotally, most crusties I ever met were middle class students or upper class people rebelling against a wealthy background.  

I guess the difference now is that in the absence of astudent grants or any other sort of decent social safety net that folk are less likely to tell mummy and daddy to do one.

The ones I knew were. Probably all dead now. Or estate agents

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18 minutes ago, eastynh said:

 I have always found the people in the north have far more eclectic record collections than our southern cousins. 

*looks at username*

Hmmm...

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2 minutes ago, russycarps said:

The ones I knew were. Probably all dead now. Or estate agents

Same thing

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Just now, russycarps said:

*looks at username*

Hmmm...

More than welcome to put that to the test.

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There's almost certainly an argument in the fact that the inherent conservatism of the music of bands like Catfish and Fray Bentos and the lads is promulgated by a political / economic climate where people aren't as able to live cheaply (either via the dole or student grants) and spend the sort of time that is usually required to rehearse and experiment and come up with anything new or individual.  

But I guess its hardly an original observation that the arts are one of the first things to suffer under austerity.

Edited by CaledonianGonzo

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1 minute ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

There's almost certainly an argument in the fact that the inherent conservatism of the music of bands like Catfish and Fray Bentos and the lads is promulgated by a political / economic climate where people aren't as able to live cheaply (either via the dole or student grants) and spend the sort of time that is usually required to rehearse and experiment and come up with anything new or individual.  

But I guess its hardly an original observation that the arts are one of the first things to suffer under austerity.

Thats not true though mate really. Technology is out there now to enable kids to come up with new and interesting things. All you need is a couple of hundred pound to kit yourself out. Its even more accessible now than it was in the 80's when people were a lot poorer than they are now in the north. With the advent of social media and youtube it is now even easier for you to get your music heard. You no longer have to rely on the NME and so on and thats why they have lost their relevence.

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Yeah, I guess I was really talking about yer traditional "bands" and thinking about why the state of (British) rock music is so dire.  I agree that grime and things of that nature are in a bit of a purple patch.

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Hooray for judging people based on where they live and then making sweeping generalisations about them. I'm pretty certain that only positive things can come from that.

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There is a sense of home town team about the Courteeners, that can't be denied. If they had the tunes then their appeal would more reaching. There is no excuse today with the advent of social media for anyones music not to be getting across. No longer are bands at the whim of the southern based print media. If their tunes were good enough, they would get huge crowds everywhere, not just Manchester. The Courteneers should be glad that their is no longer the quality and competition locally, which has enabled their rise to stardom. You compare their rise to that of Puressence. Imo Puressence were a far far better band, they were just from the wrong place at the wrong time. Their rise coincided with the rise of anti Manchester sentiment in the media during the early 90's, plus their brand of melancholy guitar rock was a couple of years too early.

There used to be an anti northern prejudice in the music media, you just have to look at the reaction in the press to Northern Soul and the initial reactions to house breaking through. The music press were totally bemused with what was going on in the north in relation to house breaking through. They did not know how to react to it and made the guitar bands the stars of it all for some strange reason. Has anyone ever read Simon Reynolds Energy Flash? The bloke totally disregards everything that went on in the north even though they were well ahead of the south in regards to house.

Yes there is still some anti northern sentiment, you just have to look on this board for an an example of that. People seem to disregard a band because of their location, where as that does not seem to be a problem up here. But it is no longer an excuse for bands no longer getting the recognition they deserve, as good music speaks for itself and social media gives artists the opportunity to get their music out there.

In short gigs are better up north and have a better atmosphere. People like to go out and make the most of it no matter what. If other people want to sneer at that then so what? I will be too busy dancing, smiling and having a good time to worry about someone down south getting on their high horse.

Edited by eastynh
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What a load of self justifying, mythologising old cobblers.

'we're different. Freer, more honest, know how to have a good time. Not like those c**ts 20 miles away'.

Divide and rule. Exactly what the political classes want.

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15 minutes ago, Mardy said:

What a load of self justifying, mythologising old cobblers.

'we're different. Freer, more honest, know how to have a good time. Not like those c**ts 20 miles away'.

Divide and rule. Exactly what the political classes want.

No one said anything about being more honest or anything like that. There are differences though, lets not deny that. Going to a gig up north is different than going to one down south.

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17 hours ago, russycarps said:

It's the London fans who are the c**ts, not the northerners!

 

Here's the thing,

Given the choice between being ruled by a metropolitan, intellectual elite of experts from London or a bunch of Northern Kippers, I choose the intellectual elite every time. That said, London does indeed seriously fail sometimes in the crowd department, but only if you are going to the wrong gigs :)

 

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