Liam Fray slams classist snobs who criticise northern fans

[Hugh Jass]

6 hours ago, Richi1988 said:

 

My favorite genre is probably Indie 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with liking indie, most of us on this board grew up with it. There have been some fantastic indie bands over the last 30 years. The Courteeners however are not one of them.

[EamerRed]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with liking indie, most of us on this board grew up with it. There have been some fantastic indie bands over the last 30 years. The Courteeners however are not one of them.

Okay, seeing as you are writing as if your opinion is 'correct', who are? Presumably Stone Roses and The Smiths, who else?

[Hugh Jass]

1 minute ago, EamerRed said:

Okay, seeing as you are writing as if your opinion is 'correct', who are? Presumably Stone Roses and The Smiths, who else?

Are we going strict definition of Indie (signed to or started on Independent labels) or more generic?

Off the top of my head, great exponents of the genre include The Smiths, Roses, Pixies, Pavement, Suede, Pulp, Blur, Interpol, The Strokes, The National, Arctic Monkeys...

[EamerRed]

12 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Are we going strict definition of Indie (signed to or started on Independent labels) or more generic?

Off the top of my head, great exponents of the genre include The Smiths, Roses, Pixies, Pavement, Suede, Pulp, Blur, Interpol, The Strokes, The National, Arctic Monkeys...

Fair enough, can't disagree with most of that, but surely you can't disagree that it's just as justified to mark The Strokes and Arctic Monkeys as generic, which is your main criticism?

[Hugh Jass]

6 minutes ago, EamerRed said:

Fair enough, can't disagree with most of that, but surely you can't disagree that it's just as justified to mark The Strokes and Arctic Monkeys as generic, which is your main criticism?

The Strokes were genuinely thrilling when they first appeared in 2001, not sure how old you are so don't know if you would remember but the musical landscape post-Britpop was fairly bleak. Nu-metal was prominent and bedwetters like Travis and Starsailor were the best that the NME generation had to offer. The Strokes were anything but generic compared to that.

Wouldn't call Arctic Monkeys generic either, there has been a noticable shift from album to album.

[Matt - Ed Banger Records]

You could argue that The Strokes were fundamentally important for the particular scene that they inhabited. I would also argue that Arctic Monkeys were the best band to come out of a time in British music when a lot of bad band got signed, they have also tried at the very least to change the way they sound, whereas to my mind, The Courteeners have found their avenue and don't much deviate from it. I don't like their music  the slightest, but that is largely down to my changing musical tastes, I think if they had been around when I was massively into Indie I probably would have loved them, but a lot of the music that they make bores me, personal taste of course.

[Hugh Jass]

4 minutes ago, Matt - Ed Banger Records said:

You could argue that The Strokes were fundamentally important for the particular scene that they inhabited. I would also argue that Arctic Monkeys were the best band to come out of a time in British music when a lot of bad band got signed, they have also tried at the very least to change the way they sound, whereas to my mind, The Courteeners have found their avenue and don't much deviate from it. I don't like their music  the slightest, but that is largely down to my changing musical tastes, I think if they had been around when I was massively into Indie I probably would have loved them, but a lot of the music that they make bores me, personal taste of course.

This is a much more eloquent version of what I was trying to say.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I guess 'older readers' are just a bit despondent by the transition from the time where indie music encapsulated a whole variety of stuff from JAMC and The Cocteau Twins and Orange Juice and The Wedding Present and Teardrop Explodes to Kylie Minogue and S-Express and The KLF and -zoinks! - Erasure.

Now it just means endless lads with haircuts and guitars peddling witless ordinary plod, with all the sparkle, nous, glamour and innovation of a late-period Oasis b-side.  It's gone from a mixed bag of flavours to just the one flavour, and that one flavour is porridge.

In the parlance - it's well Brexit, mate.

[Richi1988]

1 hour ago, Hugh Jass said:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with liking indie, most of us on this board grew up with it. There have been some fantastic indie bands over the last 30 years. The Courteeners however are not one of them.

I agree with this entirely. I really grew into music around the start of the naughties when there was a huge influx of indie bands so I suppose the genre has always really stuck with me.

That said, The courteeners wouldn't make it in my top 20 favorite indie bands, and I'm from the north.

[AM91]

Personally, I think it's the live shows that give Courteeners this cult following. I still think their music is better than any of the other indie bands of their time such as Enemy, Rev etc, but I reckon it's their gigs that do it for most people.

Although the now traditional smoke bombs, flares at Courteeners sets may come to an end...

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-11-09/festivalgoers-to-be-banned-from-using-fireworks-and-flares-under-new-government-plans/

Edited November 16, 2016 by AM91

[CaledonianGonzo]

8 minutes ago, Richi1988 said:

I really grew into music around the start of the naughties when there was a huge influx of indie bands so I suppose the genre has always really stuck with me.

So, further to my post above this - there's a strong case that indie music pretty much got knocked on the head circa about 1996 and anything that came after that branding itself (or being branded) as 'indie music' is better understood as 'indie-influenced music'.

However, the concern is that it's only really influenced by a particular strain of indie music, so there's a been a narrowing of range and a resulting mainstreaming and boiling away of any diversity of form or content.

Which is where we wind up today, with indie music as a rudimentary, reactionary, retro-fixated sort of MOR.

 

[Richi1988]

Just now, CaledonianGonzo said:

So, further to my post above this - there's a strong case that indie music pretty much got knocked on the head circa about 1996 and anything that came after that branding itself (or being branded) as 'indie music' is better understood as 'indie-influenced music'.

However, the concern is that it's only really influenced by a particular strain of indie music, so there's a been a narrowing of range and a resulting mainstreaming and boiling away of any diversity of form or content.

Which is where we wind up today, with indie music as a rudimentary, reactionary, retro-fixated sort of MOR.

 

I'm sure this wasn't your point but I'm not claiming indie (or the version I grew up with) was something that started in the naughties. I'm well aware the genre started way before my early experiences of bands like the ones you've mentioned: strokes, arctics ect.

[EamerRed]

42 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

This is a much more eloquent version of what I was trying to say.

Fair enough, I can see the viewpoint, even though I don't agree taste-wise, it could very well be a generation thing, as there's not been a huge amount top indie/rock music knocking about lately, just the standard TDCC, Foals, Catfish (another forum favourite), etc. I think Blossoms have shaken it up a little bit but I can see the sentiment in the lack of variation. Doesn't stop me loving them but hopefully I can stop boring the rest of the forum with this discussion now 

[Matt - Ed Banger Records]

You could argue that Foals are also a far more interesting offering than someone like TDCC or Catfish, certainly have a decent varied back catalogue. I notice that Blossoms are also a Manchester band ;-) I follow a lot of mancunians on twitter and they have complained about the Blossoms being pushed as the next 'new band from Manchester' I've given them a listen and can't find much to differentiate them from a lot of other indie-pop stuff really, see also Palace etc, bands get signed and promoted based on what is currently selling well, so it's difficult for a band doing anything genuinely different to find a platform. 

[SwedgeAntilles]

@Matt - Ed Banger Records is nailing it. 

[COPG]

3 hours ago, Zac Quinn said:

It's not.. people are welcome to like whoever they like.. it's just when said people start going on as if they're leagues better than any of the 100's of identical bands they happen to have outlasted, which has only happened because of where they've come from.

Just a sense of realism and level-headedness would be nice. I've got some right critically-speaking dirge in my record collection because I too like what I like - but (at least as I've got older) I've realised that going around claiming it's Bowie levels of groundbreaking or what-have-you just makes me look daft .

Come on, I don't particularly like them, but out of that post Libertines/Arctic Monkeys indie scene they are probably the most successful, unless you put Kasabian in that bracket. It's not because where they're from, all of those bands have received enormous home town support, The Enemy Sold out the Ricoh twice remember.

 

The difference is they're music is better and speaks to more people

 

 

 

[Bradders]

Blossoms are from Stockport though.

[COPG]

and I'm from Nantwich -  Dario G  

[Matt - Ed Banger Records]

All my family are from Prestwich

[AM91]

More from Fray and some other Manc musicians in this article...

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/pep-jose-chronicles-chapter-3/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-UK

[kingbadger]

Courteeners just went full circle. Intimate gig, Liam Fray bottled off stage 3 songs in. They're like a self fulfilling prophecy 

[Gnomicide]

 

[Alex DeLarge]

What a delightful way to address fans.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Shouldn't really mock someone getting bottled.... .but what on earth is that noise that they're making in that clip?

[EamerRed]

8 hours ago, Alex DeLarge said:

What a delightful way to address fans.

So biased ffs. He's normally pretty humble on Twitter. He got a bottle thrown in the head, what do you expect?

And let's all judge a band on a 10 second mobile phone clip eh 

Edited December 2, 2016 by EamerRed