Eminem

[Nicklord]

2 hours ago, Zac Quinn said:

On a level with Stan, Lose Yourself, Without Me, My Name Is, Sing For The Moment, Real Slim Shady.. really?  Maybe Love The Way You Lie at a push. Rap God and Berzerk nowhere near. Obvs he's still huge compared to most but he's fallen a long way from his popularity of a decade ago, when he had such a high profile that even that Mockingbird dirge became a worldwide smash.

Yeah, he did but from godlike level of fame to really fucking high level  But that doesn't mean he is not relevant anymore. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

'Relevance' isn't that meaningful a term as to whether or not someone should play or not - but in the sense of whether he's still at the cutting edge of hip hop, producing the most exciting, popular or critically credible music - then no, he is no longer 'relevant'.

 

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

I don't see people moaning about The Beatles/Rolling Stones/Neil Young/Pharrell/Taylor Swift/NWA/The Police/Led Zep/Johnny Cash/Fall Out Boy/Death Cab for Cutie - I could go on and on and on and on...

If we excluded acts based on lyrics or viewpoints that have the potential to offend then we couldn't fill a single stage for a single day and it would be such a poor lineup nobody would come.

You know what happens when people get offended about lyrics or viewpoints ? Nothing, nothing happens.

Really not sure why Eminem would get singled out.

Edited October 24, 2016 by The_Amazing_Oblong

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Damn Taylor Swift and her rampant homophobia.

Some of The Beatles' lyrics were a product of their time and have thus ended up looking objectifying 50 years later, but I don't recall them ever releasing a song like this:

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Zac Quinn

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

Taylor Swift - Slut shaming apparently. (I am repeating what I have read as I don't really listen to TS)

In fact I read an article this morning that states ALL heavy rock and Metal is misogynist.

So do we have an agreed scale to exactly how offensive material can be to be considered ok to play ?

[fatyeti24]

5 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

Taylor Swift - Slut shaming apparently. (I am repeating what I have read as I don't really listen to TS)

In fact I read an article this morning that states ALL heavy rock and Metal is misogynist.

So do we have an agreed scale to exactly how offensive material can be to be considered ok to play ?

All heavy rock and metal is pretty offensive* anyway before we even get to the lyrics 

*to these ears 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

I'd say lyrics literally fantasising about murdering your ex-wife would cross the line yeah. Some bands are also important and influential enough to have 'earnt' a blind eye being turned towards them* - Eminem is not.

*not that I'm suggesting this is okay 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Zac Quinn

[CaledonianGonzo]

It's a fair point that hip hop gets singled out for criticism while people turn a blind eye to a lot of questionable lyrical content in rock and metal music

I wouldn't like to see him being disqualified from playing for reasons of censorship, but at the same time I just don't see it happening - for all sort of reasons.  The cost benefit ratio - ploughing a lot of money into probably lukewarm show by an artist long past his prime - just doesn't stack up.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

3 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

I'd say lyrics literally fantasising about murdering your ex-wife would cross the line yeah. Some bands are also important and influential enough to have 'earnt' a blind eye being turned towards them* - Eminem is not.

*not that I'm suggesting this is okay 

So I assume Guns 'n Roses would also not be allowed being as 'Used to love her' tells the same story as Eminems 'Kim' for example ?

[watsonjm]

Saw him at V a few years back.  Great set, would happily watch him again. 

However there are plenty of acts I would rather see headline.

[fatyeti24]

3 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

So I assume Guns 'n Roses would also not be allowed being as 'Used to love her' tells the same story as Eminems 'Kim' for example ?

GnR's One In A Million is about as bad as you can get, lyrically. 

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

14 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

GnR's One In A Million is about as bad as you can get, lyrically. 

Well yes, the band was called racist for playing that song. The same people doing the calling (mainly white journos) seemed to conveniently forget that Slash is mixed race with his mum being black but you know, good story and all that.

[CaledonianGonzo]

That doesn't mean that the lyrics aren't racist, though.

[fatyeti24]

18 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

Well yes, the band was called racist for playing that song. The same people doing the calling (mainly white journos) seemed to conveniently forget that Slash is mixed race with his mum being black but you know, good story and all that.

that was a shit excuse 20-odd years ago when GnR used it, it stands up to even less scrutiny in 2016.

the 'one of our members has a black parent' line doesn't explain the xenophobia or homophobia in the song either.

Edited October 24, 2016 by fatyeti24

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

So to get back to the start - do we ban everything that has the potential to be offensive to somebody, somewhere for whatever reason they feel justified ?

If that was the case the inevitable conclusion is to ban pretty much all music and cancel all festivals.

Right, now that's sorted, next topic ;

Books - Which should we burn first ?

[CaledonianGonzo]

Can't be bothered reading back the entire thread, but has anyone actually suggested banning Eminem?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

20 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

So to get back to the start - do we ban everything that has the potential to be offensive to somebody, somewhere for whatever reason they feel justified ?

No. But you can turn a blind eye to something which 'may potentially offend somebody, somewhere, for some reason' without ignoring the extremity of songs like, for example, Kim. And FWIW no I wouldn't be comfortable with GNR playing either, those kind of lyrics ringing around a place which represents a bubble for me from the rest of the world where those views are commonplace would be quite disheartening, although they do at least have a legendary and influential aspect to them in their favour which Eminem does not.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Zac Quinn

[Hugh Jass]

6 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

So to get back to the start - do we ban everything that has the potential to be offensive to somebody, somewhere for whatever reason they feel justified ?

If that was the case the inevitable conclusion is to ban pretty much all music and cancel all festivals.

Right, now that's sorted, next topic ;

Books - Which should we burn first ?

Personally I'm of the view that nothing should be banned, free expression and all that.

However GF prides itself on being an ethical, inclusive affair. Booking Eminem, with his history of homophobic and misogynist lyrics, kind of goes against what the festival stands for. Personally I don't care, my issue is that he isn't very good anymore, but it really wouldn't take much to get the Neil Lonsdales of this world up in arms over it. It's a booking that would spark outrage amongst certain communities and cause a headache that the Eavii could do without. Kanye caused a shitstorm and he's just a bit of an arse. This would be far worse.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

12 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Can't be bothered reading back the entire thread, but has anyone actually suggested banning Eminem?

Probably not, I probs made that up in my own head but I was on a roll..

[fatyeti24]

22 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

So to get back to the start - do we ban everything that has the potential to be offensive to somebody, somewhere for whatever reason they feel justified ?

If that was the case the inevitable conclusion is to ban pretty much all music and cancel all festivals.

Right, now that's sorted, next topic ;

Books - Which should we burn first ?

It's not about banning stuff, more highlighting that which is generally considered unacceptable. I get offended at all sorts things, two of last year's headliners for example, but general consensus didn't align with mine, so Muse and Coldplay were allowed to play. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

14 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

However GF prides itself on being an ethical, inclusive affair. Booking Eminem, with his history of homophobic and misogynist lyrics, kind of goes against what the festival stands for. Personally I don't care, my issue is that he isn't very good anymore, but it really wouldn't take much to get the Neil Lonsdales of this world up in arms over it. It's a booking that would spark outrage amongst certain communities and cause a headache that the Eavii could do without. Kanye caused a shstorm and he's just a bit of an . This would be far worse.

The Rolling Stones headlined with a tonne of violent, misognystic material

I'm of the mind that the festival shouldn't really kowtow to the petition-starters, and if there was an 2016 equivalent of Eminem circa the year 2001 / 2002 then they should be trying to book him - but with 15 years of hindsight its difficult to see him as much more than a (admittedly sizable) flash in the pan.

 

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

18 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Personally I'm of the view that nothing should be banned, free expression and all that.

However GF prides itself on being an ethical, inclusive affair. Booking Eminem, with his history of homophobic and misogynist lyrics, kind of goes against what the festival stands for. Personally I don't care, my issue is that he isn't very good anymore, but it really wouldn't take much to get the Neil Lonsdales of this world up in arms over it. It's a booking that would spark outrage amongst certain communities and cause a headache that the Eavii could do without. Kanye caused a shitstorm and he's just a bit of an arse. This would be far worse.

Aye. I just don't understand why he in particular seems to be getting singled out. Lots of past headliners have released songs of similar ilk if not so much in your face with the lyrics ;

Neil Young - A Man needs a Maid has been touted as misogynistic.

Rolling Stones - Brown Sugar has been touted as both misogynistic and racist. 

It just seems very selective and specific about what offends people and is dependent upon their particular taste in music. It's Kanye and Jay Z all over again and I was hoping we might have moved on a bit.

ah - CaledonianGonzo beat me to The Rolling Stones.

Edited October 24, 2016 by The_Amazing_Oblong

[The Nal]

The festival let paedos play and have a tent named after one. Lyrical content is hardly an issue if we're going to get on the moral high horse here.

The main issue with Eminem live is that you have to put up with D12 shouting at you for 90 minutes. 

[Madyaker]

I love hip hop and rap but it often falls a bit flat live. Eminem was great, but he's well past it in terms of his live shows and the music he is putting out. The only person from that genre id like to see at the festival next year is Kendrick Lamar.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

12 minutes ago, The Nal said:

The festival let paedos play and have a tent named after one. Lyrical content is hardly an issue if we're going to get on the moral high horse here.

The main issue with Eminem live is that you have to put up with D12 shouting at you for 90 minutes. 

Upvoted for truth.