Eco bond for litter collection at Boomtown. Something for Glasto?

[DeanoL]

I hear this a few times but, how does pre-errected camping solve the issue exactly?

There's nothing about them that means they're going to be left tidier, and at the end of the festival, they have to pay people to take them all down (and probably also clean them). I don't really see the benefit to the festival between doing this and taking down tents campers have left? At the moment if, say, 50% of people leave their tents, that's half the work that Glastonbury have to do compared to if the entire site was pre-errected camping.

(There is one benefit which is space - people bringing larger and larger tents is causing more crowding on the camping fields but that's not the same issue).

Edited July 11, 2016 by DeanoL

[giantkatestacks]

The other benefit is loaning them out to other festivals like Boomtown though isnt it - so they pay for themselves twice. Plus it staggers arrivals as you cant turn up there early.

[djdavejohnson]

There is one obvious solution for some of the litter problem - and it really isn't pleasant and I hope it never comes to it, but they could make the steel cups compulsory, and ban all alcohol from being brought onto the site.

 

 

*shudder*

[marcoolio]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

I hear this a few times but, how does pre-errected camping solve the issue exactly?

There's nothing about them that means they're going to be left tidier, and at the end of the festival, they have to pay people to take them all down (and probably also clean them). I don't really see the benefit to the festival between doing this and taking down tents campers have left? At the moment if, say, 50% of people leave their tents, that's half the work that Glastonbury have to do compared to if the entire site was pre-errected camping.

Camplight is a third party though, not part of the Glastonbury organisation. So from Glastonbury's point of view, Camplight arranges the accommodations for hundreds of punters while guaranteeing a clean field afterwards, at (I think) no cost to the festival. Perhaps Camplight are even paying Glastonbury for the use of the field.

[RossTC]

42 minutes ago, djdavejohnson said:

There is one obvious solution for some of the litter problem - and it really isn't pleasant and I hope it never comes to it, but they could make the steel cups compulsory, and ban all alcohol from being brought onto the site.

 

 

*shudder*

I didnt have a steel cup this year but i noticed that people that did still were given there drink in a paper cup and they then had to pour that themselves into the steel?!

[djdavejohnson]

18 minutes ago, RossTC said:

I didnt have a steel cup this year but i noticed that people that did still were given there drink in a paper cup and they then had to pour that themselves into the steel?!

Oh dear - I imagine if they ever did consider going down the route of compulsory usage of the steel cups then paper cups would no longer be used.

[RossTC]

8 minutes ago, djdavejohnson said:

Oh dear - I imagine if they ever did consider going down the route of compulsory usage of the steel cups then paper cups would no longer be used.

It seemed to be a hygiene reason that they were given new pints in the paper cup then the holder of the steel cup had to pour themselves, someone who had one maybe able to clarify that as im only speculating on what i oversaw whilst queuing at bars.

[hfuhruhurr]

the steel cup thing has been covered in other threads - basically it's the law - hygiene mixed with the right measure.
You can have the scenario where an Ale is poured into a plastic (for measure), then into paper (for hygiene) then the punter bungs it in a steel. The ale is completely dizzy at the end.

[DeanoL]

50 minutes ago, marcoolio said:

Camplight is a third party though, not part of the Glastonbury organisation. So from Glastonbury's point of view, Camplight arranges the accommodations for hundreds of punters while guaranteeing a clean field afterwards, at (I think) no cost to the festival. Perhaps Camplight are even paying Glastonbury for the use of the field.

Yup, but there's a question of how scalable that would be.

[djdavejohnson]

34 minutes ago, RossTC said:

It seemed to be a hygiene reason that they were given new pints in the paper cup then the holder of the steel cup had to pour themselves, someone who had one maybe able to clarify that as im only speculating on what i oversaw whilst queuing at bars.

 

24 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

the steel cup thing has been covered in other threads - basically it's the law - hygiene mixed with the right measure.
You can have the scenario where an Ale is poured into a plastic (for measure), then into paper (for hygiene) then the punter bungs it in a steel. The ale is completely dizzy at the end.

Hmm interesting... not sure what the solution is then!

[bennyhana22]

On ‎09‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 0:36 PM, incident said:

For me at least it'd probably have the reverse effect than intended.

I'd never get round to filling a bag with other peoples waste (not for the sake of £10 anyway), and so would be penalised for being tidy. On that basis, why should I bother to be tidy? For me this scheme would be a green light to drop whatever the hell you like wherever the hell you like, after all you're paying for the right to do so.

 

On ‎09‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 4:40 PM, incident said:

It seems fairly simple - I currently clean up after myself, and am happy to do so - it's the right thing to do

If you're going to start implementing a penalty like this, for those of us who aren't generating anywhere near that volume of waste to start with the choices ultimately come down to - generate more waste, clean up after others, or forfeit the "deposit". I'm not going to generate more waste, and my time is worth more than £10 so I'm not going to clean up other peoples mess.

So ultimately, under a scheme like this I'm almost certainly going to be paying a messy bastard penalty despite being less so than most - you can't see how that would be counter productive?

Now ultimately in my case I'd probably carry on the exact same as before, but I'd certainly feel wronged by it.

Sorry to stuck my beak in, team, but I felt I had to butt in and defend incident against the downvoting.

What he/she is saying is in no way advocating littering, nor being against the idea of schemes to improve the current situation, including the shocking environmental disregard and laziness of so many of our fellow festival goers. He/she is merely pointing out a potentially significant flaw in the Boomtown proposal, which may backfire by disincentivising some, legitimising the bad habits of others, and financially penalising the already-conscientious!

Sorry to interfere, but I felt that downvoting (never been a fan, sorry...!) was based on misunderstanding of a very valid and well-meant observation.

Ben x

[djdavejohnson]

29 minutes ago, bennyhana22 said:

 

Sorry to stuck my beak in, team, but I felt I had to butt in and defend incident against the downvoting.

What he/she is saying is in no way advocating littering, nor being against the idea of schemes to improve the current situation, including the shocking environmental disregard and laziness of so many of our fellow festival goers. He/she is merely pointing out a potentially significant flaw in the Boomtown proposal, which may backfire by disincentivising some, legitimising the bad habits of others, and financially penalising the already-conscientious!

Sorry to interfere, but I felt that downvoting (never been a fan, sorry...!) was based on misunderstanding of a very valid and well-meant observation.

Ben x

Ben! Your diplomacy is admirable! I think you may have missed my post in the efestivals meet thread - basically I said it was great to meet you and I hope you enjoyed the rest of the festival.

Either that or you did see my post but decided to swerve it as the feeling wasn't reciprocated

Can't fathom how that would be possible though

Edited July 11, 2016 by djdavejohnson

[pie_and_a_pint]

7 hours ago, EasyUserName said:

I feel your pain - I've no idea how people do it!

 

It must be hard work, espcially after a late night.

It is hard work. Easier to pick up cans, plastic bottles, paper cups and paper plates from the stages and pathways than it would be to clean up the tents and carnage from the campsites though I think.

[bennyhana22]

On 7/11/2016 at 5:23 PM, djdavejohnson said:

Ben! Your diplomacy is admirable! I think you may have missed my post in the efestivals meet thread - basically I said it was great to meet you and I hope you enjoyed the rest of the festival.

Either that or you did see my post but decided to swerve it as the feeling wasn't reciprocated

Can't fathom how that would be possible though

DAVE!

Huge apologies for apparent dissing - not at all.

Given that my life becomes entirely festival/Glastonbury obsessed from later winter onwards, my invariable post-festival model is a quiet withdrawal from forum life, as I try (a) to assimilate just exactly what happened to me at the festival and (b) to get back to a slightly healthier mental state, whereby there is something in my life that is not dominated by Glastonbury!

It was an unadulterated pleasure to meet you on the Wednesday, and I'd very much like to repeat the experience - this time for a bit longer - in a year's time!

 

Ben
xx
 

[djdavejohnson]

59 minutes ago, bennyhana22 said:

DAVE!

Huge apologies for apparent dissing - not at all.

Given that my life becomes entirely festival/Glastonbury obsessed from later winter onwards, my invariable post-festival model is a quiet withdrawal from forum life, as I try (a) to assimilate just exactly what happened to me at the festival and (b) to get back to a slightly healthier mental state, whereby there is something in my life that is not dominated by Glastonbury!

It was an unadulterated pleasure to meet you on the Wednesday, and I'd very much like to repeat the experience - this time for a bit longer - in a year's time!

 

Ben
xx
 

Heya Ben,

I'm sure you gathered I was only messing!

I thought that may have been the case... a Glastonbury withdrawal actually sounds quite attractive!

Next year, providing we can both secure a ticket (heads up ticket Gods) I very much look forward to a longer meet up on the Weds.

Wishing you all the best with (a) and (b)

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Litter aside, I think a solution to stop people leaving tents would have to be more drastic, something like everybody bringing a tent pays a £50 deposit and takes a receipt of sorts, to get the £50 back you have to present your receipt and packed up tent at the end. It would stop the majority of tents being left, but it would create a big problem queue wise.

[MilkyJoe]

19 hours ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Litter aside, I think a solution to stop people leaving tents would have to be more drastic, something like everybody bringing a tent pays a £50 deposit and takes a receipt of sorts, to get the £50 back you have to present your receipt and packed up tent at the end. It would stop the majority of tents being left, but it would create a big problem queue wise.

It's an idea but sadly I don't think one that would work too well. The sort of people that are prepared to leave a brand new tent when they leave are presumably the sort of people that wouldn't care greatly about losing £50 or worse still filling their tent bags with t'shirts to claim their deposits back. There is also the issue that for a lot of people, paying for tickets already stretches their finances to breaking point. Another £50 may be £50 too much for them to pay?

However I do feel the issue of left behind tents and camping equipment is the bigger problem here and something clearly needs to change. One idea and admittedly not a very polished one would be possibly to have some sort of volunteer sign up scheme on the Monday morning that gives people some of their ticket money back or better still some sort of early bird code for the following ticket day if they are prepared to put in a few (8?) hours clearing campsites. Now I've always been dead set against changing the current system for getting a ticket as I do believe it is the fairest system available (and I can still say that despite missing out for 2 years running) but it would probably be only a few thousand people at a guess and the festival would be guaranteed to attract the people that genuinely cared about the farm year in year out.

Of course this still doesn't take any steps to eradicate the misguided belief that people would  feel they are entitled to leave stuff behind in the knowledge that 'it's okay, they have dedicated clean-up people'...

No easy solutions I'm afraid.

Shaun.

[GoonerRob]

I think they should give out codes for a secret ticket pre sale for people they see leaving the site with their tents all bagged up and ready to take home.

Watch how many more people take them home!

[DeanoL]

52 minutes ago, GoonerRob said:

I think they should give out codes for a secret ticket pre sale for people they see leaving the site with their tents all bagged up and ready to take home.

Watch how many more people take them home!

Then watch people who didn't get a code, even though they took their tent home, get all annoyed when they don't get tickets the next year...

[stuartbert two hats]

20 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

Or car parks full of tents after people have got their tickets. 

Unless they give them to people in thecars. Which increases congestion. 

Surely it's the actual packing up and carrying of the tents that takes the effort.

[DeanoL]

5 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Surely it's the actual packing up and carrying of the tents that takes the effort.

It's also what takes effort for litter pickers though. Going to be easier to pick up discarded tent bags from car parks.

I just spotted the big issue though - camping space. The fields get busier and busier every year, because people are bringing larger and larger tents. The numbers on site are barely going up.

A scheme like this basically means everyone will want to bring their own tent, and tent sharing will stop. Which is a problem in terms of space.

[jake.b.overton]

Give people a code for a secret resale would have to be an individual code for each person or they'd pass it to their mates, and I get the feeling the system would create a lucrative market for 'secret codes'

[Camplight]

At Camplight Pre pitched tents on Pennard Hill at Glastonbury festival in 2016 we introduced a £25 clean campsite deposit.  It really worked we only had about 10 offenders out of the 380 tents we hired!

[Charm]

3 hours ago, Camplight said:

At Camplight Pre pitched tents on Pennard Hill at Glastonbury festival in 2016 we introduced a £25 clean campsite deposit.  It really worked we only had about 10 offenders out of the 380 tents we hired!

Was that charge per person or tent and how did you police it. 
 Charm x

[the beadle]

On 11/07/2016 at 9:50 AM, Nobody Interesting said:

The internet - the place where things get misunderstood and blown up more than anywhere else.

Imagine what will happen when they move Parliament online!

pm's are the way to have an ongoing discussion/argument