Football 16-17

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

How do you determine someone doing a great job at Celtic? 

Ha! Not easy, but ... perhaps a rare triple?

 

[eFestivals]

so last night, a bore-draw with Jose parking the bus. Who could have predicted that?

(some of us guessed, and decided to skip it, a wise move )

Edited April 28, 2017 by eFestivals

[pink_triangle]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Ha! Not easy, but ... perhaps a rare triple?

 

Even a treble is only as good as your opposition. While Rangers are weak, I would expect Celtic to clear up. As I have said previously the lesser teams in the Spl are probably not much better than a good English conference side with wage bills to demonstrate that.

To me a great job at Celtic is progress in Europe. They had a tough group this season, so a little early to judge.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Even a treble is only as good as your opposition. While Rangers are weak, I would expect Celtic to clear up. As I have said previously the lesser teams in the Spl are probably not much better than a good English conference side with wage bills to demonstrate that.

To me a great job at Celtic is progress in Europe. They had a tough group this season, so a little early to judge.

I don't really disagree, tho Celtic haven't been cleaning up in the recent years while Rangers have been nowhere.

I reckon Celtic is probably the perfect job for Rodgers, tho. I don't think he's a particularly bad manager, but I'd also say his worst fault is thinking he's better than he is - and Celtic allows him to be as good as he thinks he is.

I'm actually quite annoyed with his time at Liverpool, cos for a while he had them doing perfect triangles and it was just starting to pay off when they started to do less of it. I'd have liked to seen that continued with some more rather than abandoned.

[CRW5252]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Well determining the context is the challenge. How do you determine between the gambling addict and the corrupt footballer who plays the gambling addict card when caught, looking for a lesser sentence.

 

Oh, come on. He's lost money so I can't see how you can claim he is corrupt. The amount of bets he has put on football alone shows he is an addict.  

[CRW5252]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Even a treble is only as good as your opposition. While Rangers are weak, I would expect Celtic to clear up. As I have said previously the lesser teams in the Spl are probably not much better than a good English conference side with wage bills to demonstrate that.

To me a great job at Celtic is progress in Europe. They had a tough group this season, so a little early to judge.

A unbeaten season is also a great achievement, regardless of how poor the league is. How can you expect them to compete in the champions league with their low wage bill relative to the other teams in the competition? Sorry I had to  

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

The amount of bets he has put on football alone shows he is an addict.  

not necessarily. He might just have more money than he knows what to do with.

 

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

A unbeaten season is also a great achievement, regardless of how poor the league is. How can you expect them to compete in the champions league with their low wage bill relative to the other teams in the competition? Sorry I had to  

To some extent they are at the mercy of the draw. The Europa league is probably the best measuring stick but if Celtic qualify for the groups and then finish bottom they don't get to compete.

[pink_triangle]

12 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

Oh, come on. He's lost money so I can't see how you can claim he is corrupt. The amount of bets he has put on football alone shows he is an addict.  

Im not claiming he is corrupt or non corrupt. I also think we have to separate being a gambling addict and betting against your own team. It is possible to be addicted to gambling on bet on the multitude of other things available. I certainly don't think you can judge it purely on the amount won. Its possible that an honest gambling addict could make huge profits, while a dishonest corrupt player could make a loss.   

[mjsell]

Get in the draw.

[ThomThomDrum]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I'm actually quite annoyed with his time at Liverpool, cos for a while he had them doing perfect triangles and it was just starting to pay off when they started to do less of it. I'd have liked to seen that continued with some more rather than abandoned.

He also showed he struggles to buy a striker to fit his style (Borini, Balotelli, Lambert, Benteke!), but I suppose he was unlucky with the sick notes of Sturridge and Ings............

[big__phil]

22 minutes ago, mjsell said:

Get in the draw.

Yeah, a good result for Arsenal and Liverpool last night. We REALLY could do with the win on Sunday, but I can't see us getting the result. Maybe a draw, but you never know I guess.

Weekend fixtures:

Southampton 15:00 Hull

Stoke 15:00 West Ham

Sunderland 15:00 Bournemouth

West Brom 15:00 Leicester

Crystal Palace 17:30 Burnley

Sunday 30 April

Man Utd 12:00 Swansea

Everton 14:05 Chelsea

Middlesbrough 14:05 Man City

Spurs 16:30 Arsenal

Monday 01 May

Watford 20:00 Liverpool

Away games for three of the four teams chasing Champs League. Although Utd have a pretty easy looking game this weekend, they then have to go down to The Emirates, Shite Hart Lane and St Mary's, before Palace at home on the last game of the season. That's not an easy run, especially with Europa League games mid week as well. Arsenal have a tricky old run as well, whereas Liverpool's doesn't look too bad (although these are often the games they struggle with).

Squeaky bum time.

[eFestivals]

27 minutes ago, ThomThomDrum said:

He also showed he struggles to buy a striker to fit his style (Borini, Balotelli, Lambert, Benteke!), but I suppose he was unlucky with the sick notes of Sturridge and Ings............

Borini was a punt on a relative youngster with little UK game time (at the time of buying), Lambert was worthwhile but didn't really work (he'd got too old, didn't work at WBA 6 months later either), and Balotelli was desperation ... so I won't be too harsh on him about any of those.

Benteke, tho, was one he absolutely wanted, but didn't have a clue how to use with the other players he had - so he can get full blame for that one. But even then his scoring record at Liverpool was very good for the amount of game time he got, and Rodgers only had a few months of him.... and it's not like Benteke was a player he paid over the odds for, either, as the resale and his time as CP shows.

So really, he wasn't as bad around those as might be suggested.

But I'll happily say that Rodgers was in a job beyond his abilities, tho probably more because he was too quick to change his ideas (like abandoning the triangles thing) than because he couldn't have done it if he'd been more stable with what he wanted to get the team doing.

Edited April 28, 2017 by eFestivals

[mjsell]

7 minutes ago, big__phil said:

Yeah, a good result for Arsenal and Liverpool last night. We REALLY could do with the win on Sunday, but I can't see us getting the result. Maybe a draw, but you never know I guess.

If we were to win on Sunday, it would have to go down as one of our best/most important derby wins. Would be such an important win for us, plus with the added benefit of effectively ending any title hopes for Spurs. However like you, I'm not overly confident. Our centre midfield wont be good enough to match up with Spurs in this new fangled formation that Wenger has definitely not stolen from anyone. He is an innovator of course, he would never just simply copy another teams successful tactics.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, mjsell said:

Wenger has definitely not stolen from anyone. He is an innovator of course, he would never just simply copy another teams successful tactics.

thing is, if he was still doing the same thing they'd be many complaining that he's not adaptable. 

[mjsell]

Just now, eFestivals said:

thing is, if he was still doing the same thing they'd be many complaining that he's not adaptable. 

Yeah I was joking. Although I'm not sure you can claim this makes him adaptable when it has literally taken him until the last possible moment to admit that what he has been doing for the best part of 10/15 years isn't working.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, mjsell said:

Yeah I was joking. Although I'm not sure you can claim this makes him adaptable when it has literally taken him until the last possible moment to admit that what he has been doing for the best part of 10/15 years isn't working.

that only stands up if you class anything less than winning the league as 'not working'.

In which case there's 19 managers who tactics aren't working.

 

[big__phil]

It's classic Wenger to find a system that works in the Spring, which then puts the team on a good run to get into the Champs League. Time will tell whether he's done it again, but I'm not totally convinced this system is a winner in the long term. Giroud is certainly too immobile for this system, and the midfield is still yet to gel (which is the story of the season). Off the ball movement is still pretty poor at times, although a wingbacks are certainly enjoying themselves at the moment. BIG test on Sunday, of course.

[Wooderson]

26 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Borini was a punt on a relative youngster with little UK game time (at the time of buying), Lambert was worthwhile but didn't really work (he'd got too old, didn't work at WBA 6 months later either), and Balotelli was desperation ... so I won't be too harsh on him about any of those.

Benteke, tho, was one he absolutely wanted, but didn't have a clue how to use with the other players he had - so he can get full blame for that one. But even then his scoring record at Liverpool was very good for the amount of game time he got, and Rodgers only had a few months of him.... and it's not like Benteke was a player he paid over the odds for, either, as the resale and his time as CP shows.

So really, he wasn't as bad around those as might be suggested.

But I'll happily say that Rodgers was in a job beyond his abilities, tho probably more because he was too quick to change his ideas (like abandoning the triangles thing) than because he couldn't have done it if he'd been more stable with what he wanted to get the team doing.

Would disagree with you on Benteke. That was one where the club said "chose between taking him or nothing".

[Wooderson]

Expected Utd to do better last night. Team was strong enough on paper to not have to resort to a flat back 9.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Wooderson said:

Would disagree with you on Benteke. That was one where the club said "chose between taking him or nothing".

eh? I read plenty of stuff at the time that said Benteke was Rodger's big want, the one he definitely wanted.

[eFestivals]

Just now, Wooderson said:

Expected Utd to do better last night. Team was strong enough on paper to not have to resort to a flat back 9.

it's what Moaniho does.

I've no idea why anyone wasn't expecting a parked bus.

[Wooderson]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

eh? I read plenty of stuff at the time that said Benteke was Rodger's big want, the one he definitely wanted.

Ballix youre right - im mixing him up with Ballosilly.

[Wooderson]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's what Moaniho does.

I've no idea why anyone wasn't expecting a parked bus.

B-but he's a master tactician Neil.

[mjsell]

2 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Expected Utd to do better last night. Team was strong enough on paper to not have to resort to a flat back 9.

 

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

it's what Moaniho does.

I've no idea why anyone wasn't expecting a parked bus.

To be fair to United they looked threatening for the first 20/25. Then City pushed back Martial and Mkhitaryan and they had nothing after that. Fellaini is a joke of a footballer - and not even for the sending off - I've never seen someone with such poor reaction time and movement over 2 yards play at such a high level. There was a pass to him that was about two yards to his left with no power on it and even I could have taken a step and controlled it in time, but not him - he is always stretching for everything.

9 minutes ago, big__phil said:

It's classic Wenger to find a system that works in the Spring, which then puts the team on a good run to get into the Champs League. Time will tell whether he's done it again, but I'm not totally convinced this system is a winner in the long term. Giroud is certainly too immobile for this system, and the midfield is still yet to gel (which is the story of the season). Off the ball movement is still pretty poor at times, although a wingbacks are certainly enjoying themselves at the moment. BIG test on Sunday, of course.

The biggest issue with us playing that system for me is the lack of control Xhaka and whoever his partner is in the middle have on games. Chelsea and Spurs have Matic, Kante, Wanyama and Dembele - all of who win the ball back with ease and allow the more offensive players more of a license to roam and influence play.