Football 16-17

[TheGayTent]

26 minutes ago, big__phil said:

Well they actually spent £64m on a load of bang average players. How many Andre Ayews is that?

3. 

They sold Kante. 

[big__phil]

I feel I might be losing this argument, but I can't really envisage any scenario when the champions being relegated would be a good thing for that club.

[TheGayTent]

1 minute ago, big__phil said:

I feel I might be losing this argument, but I can't really envisage any scenario when the champions being relegated would be a good thing for that club.

I'm not sure anyone has suggested that. 

It's only a discussion 

Edited February 24, 2017 by TheGayTent

[pink_triangle]

9 minutes ago, big__phil said:

. Why couldn't the manager get any sort of performance out of him this year? That is, ultimately, his job, and he's failed.

 

Isnt it Mahrez job to get performances out of himself? I think people at times overestimate the role of the manager. Ranieri wasnt a great manager last season and isnt a terrible one this season. I suspect Mahrez performances this season are probably more in line with his performances over his career. He is probably a mediocre/poor premierhsip player who had the season of his life. Maybe theres nothing Mahrez or the manager can do, its just his natural level.

[pink_triangle]

3 minutes ago, big__phil said:

I feel I might be losing this argument, but I can't really envisage any scenario when the champions being relegated would be a good thing for that club.

Theres a difference between good and the end of the world. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. I would pretty much ignore the fact that leicester are champions. It was an amazing one off and they definitely shouldnt be viewed in the same prism as other champions.

[mjsell]

1 minute ago, big__phil said:

I feel I might be losing this argument, but I can't really envisage any scenario when the champions being relegated would be a good thing for that club.

Well obviously. I don't think anyone is suggesting that a relegation is what the club needs.  But it is not a disaster of the proportions most boards see it as.

Its strange, I feel like this whole situation is being looked upon in both the context of last season and not at the same time, and both in the wrong ways. People are remembering what happened last season and saying because of that success they shouldnt be in this position (if they had finished 17th last season this wouldnt even be an issue). But then, completely fogetting Ranieri won them the fucking league and should be having having statues made of him, not getting sacked.

[big__phil]

4 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

It's only a discussion 

I know, it's all good!

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

Theres a difference between good and the end of the world. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. I would pretty much ignore the fact that leicester are champions. It was an amazing one off and they definitely shouldnt be viewed in the same prism as other champions.

I think, ultimately, this is where we disagree. I don't think anybody would expect them to challenge for the league again, but would you expect them to go down? The target should (and presumably was) set slightly higher than that this year, as a result of what they did last year.

It's obviously not a popular decision to sack him, for obvious reasons, but on pure football level it makes some sense. Ranieri has no experience of the Championship, so it would be unlikely that he would be in charge for the start of next season if they did get relegated. If they replace him now with somebody who does know a bit more of that league they will either a] stay up, or b] go down with somebody who knows the squad, and how to shape it for the challenge of getting out the Championship.

[TheGayTent]

11 minutes ago, big__phil said:

It's obviously not a popular decision to sack him, for obvious reasons, but on pure football level it makes some sense. Ranieri has no experience of the Championship, so it would be unlikely that he would be in charge for the start of next season if they did get relegated. If they replace him now with somebody who does know a bit more of that league they will either a] stay up, or b] go down with somebody who knows the squad, and how to shape it for the challenge of getting out the Championship.

Ok, now it's an argument ! 

What kind of bollocks is this?? Ranieri has 30 years of management experience. He's managed in 4 countries, and in lower divisions abroad. He's won trophies. 

Yet because he has no experience of the English second division he's somehow not qualified to manage in it?? 

Lunacy. 

[onthebeach]

Hope you don't mind me commenting on this thread as I am far from a football fan.  I was born and live in the Midlands backwater of Leicester.  

I am so sad the 'fairy tale' has ended in this way - the most dignified gentleman unceremoniously dumped.  These were a rag tag team of losers and no hopers who became champions of England against literally all the odds.  The 'band of brothers' achieved what seemed impossible in the big money game and also in the otherwise shit year that 2016 was for most other things in the world.  It is hard to describe what the city was like for a few halcyon days last May.  My city was the nearest I have got to the spirit of Glastonbury outside the festival -  the happiness, joy, togetherness of fans and non fans.  We were literally dancing in the streets.  

Maybe I was living last season vicariously through my son - a real fan.  People paying thousands for tickets for the Everton home match when the trophy was lifted. I said to him, you are about to go to the best gig on the planet - he said no way would he give up his season ticket  for the money that day - priceless - something he can remember for the rest of his life - I cannot begin to understand what this achievement meant to a true LCFC fan who never believed this would/could never happen for their 'little club'.

It now feels like the Monday after Glastonbury - party's over, back to reality - normal service is resumed.  Very sad.

[big__phil]

Just now, TheGayTent said:

Ok, now it's an argument ! 

What kind of bollocks is this?? Ranieri has 30 years of management experience. He's managed in 4 countries, and in lower divisions abroad. He's won trophies. 

Yet because he has no experience of the English second division he's somehow not qualified to manage in it?? 

Lunacy. 

No no no, no argument from me (honest). I also didn't say he isn't 'qualified', just didn't have experience.

To be fair (and to undercut my own point) Rafa is doing a great job in the league he hasn't the experience in. I wonder though, how many managers have got promoted to the Prem in their first year in the Championship. That's a genuine question by the way, I've no idea.

[Comfy Bean]

6 minutes ago, onthebeach said:

Hope you don't mind me commenting on this thread as I am far from a football fan.  I was born and live in the Midlands backwater of Leicester.  

I am so sad the 'fairy tale' has ended in this way - the most dignified gentleman unceremoniously dumped.  These were a rag tag team of losers and no hopers who became champions of England against literally all the odds.  The 'band of brothers' achieved what seemed impossible in the big money game and also in the otherwise shit year that 2016 was for most other things in the world.  It is hard to describe what the city was like for a few halcyon days last May.  My city was the nearest I have got to the spirit of Glastonbury outside the festival -  the happiness, joy, togetherness of fans and non fans.  We were literally dancing in the streets.  

Maybe I was living last season vicariously through my son - a real fan.  People paying thousands for tickets for the Everton home match when the trophy was lifted. I said to him, you are about to go to the best gig on the planet - he said no way would he give up his season ticket  for the money that day - priceless - something he can remember for the rest of his life - I cannot begin to understand what this achievement meant to a true LCFC fan who never believed this would/could never happen for their 'little club'.

It now feels like the Monday after Glastonbury - party's over, back to reality - normal service is resumed.  Very sad.

Nicely put 

[TheGayTent]

2 minutes ago, big__phil said:

No no no, no argument from me (honest). I also didn't say he isn't 'qualified', just didn't have experience.

To be fair (and to undercut my own point) Rafa is doing a great job in the league he hasn't the experience in. I wonder though, how many managers have got promoted to the Prem in their first year in the Championship. That's a genuine question by the way, I've no idea.

Whatever the answer is will tell you nothing. 

Will Chris Wilder be a failure next year if he doesn't achieve promotion to the premier league in his first season managing  in the championship? 

[Comfy Bean]

24 minutes ago, big__phil said:

If they replace him now with somebody who does know a bit more of that league they will either a] stay up, or b] go down with somebody who knows the squad, and how to shape it for the challenge of getting out the Championship.

or C ) Leave him in place and maybe they stay up ?

I`m starting to side with Neil`s point that Ranieri walks away without the relegation being his bad.

The last 24 hours has made me think they don`t deserve the man.

[big__phil]

Couple of the papers seem to think the players turned on the manager, complaining to the owners. Pretty nasty if true.

[Hugh Jass]

36 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Ok, now it's an argument !

What kind of bollocks is this?? Ranieri has 30 years of management experience. He's managed in 4 countries, and in lower divisions abroad. He's won trophies.

Yet because he has no experience of the English second division he's somehow not qualified to manage in it??

Lunacy.

That's a stretch, in 30 years he has a Coppa Italia in 1996, a Coppa del Ray in 1999 and the French Second Division with Monaco in 2011 before Leicester.

Much like Leicester's squad, last season was very much the exception, and like the players he has regressed back to his true level now.

[kaosmark2]

How desperate will Ranieri's replacement be for a job?

If a club sacks a manager there should be 2 questions, does he deserve it, and can you replace him with better?

I'd say it's a no on both fronts.

[eFestivals]

28 minutes ago, big__phil said:

Couple of the papers seem to think the players turned on the manager, complaining to the owners. Pretty nasty if true.

if it's true, they've just blemished their hero status, while Claudio gets to keep his.

[TheGayTent]

25 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

That's a stretch, in 30 years he has a Coppa Italia in 1996, a Coppa del Ray in 1999 and the French Second Division with Monaco in 2011 before Leicester.

Much like Leicester's squad, last season was very much the exception, and like the players he has regressed back to his true level now.

It's a lot more than Allardyce....

It'll probably be a lot more than the person Leicester choose to replace Ranieri....(I can't see Mancini wanting the job) 

[Hugh Jass]

10 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

It's a lot more than Allardyce....

It'll probably be a lot more than the person Leicester choose to replace Ranieri....(I can't see Mancini wanting the job)

I don't rate Allardyce either...

Who's available?

Roy - Experience of turning around similar sized clubs to Leicester (ourselves and Fulham). He's getting on now though and might not want it after the England fiasco.

Pardew - No thanks

Mancini - Unlikely.

de Boer - I like him, would be happy to see him at Albion. However I think he's the sort of coach you bring in during the summer, not catapulted straight into a relegation scrap.

Rowett - Promising but still green, would be a gamble.

Sherwood - Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

[TheGayTent]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

I don't rate Allardyce either...

Who's available?

Roy - Experience of turning around similar sized clubs to Leicester (ourselves and Fulham). He's getting on now though and might not want it after the England fiasco.

Pardew - No thanks

Mancini - Unlikely.

de Boer - I like him, would be happy to see him at Albion. However I think he's the sort of coach you bring in during the summer, not catapulted straight into a relegation scrap.

Rowett - Promising but still green, would be a gamble.

Sherwood - Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

De Boer is never going to be interested in the likes of Leicester or Albion (or WHU for that matter). 

[Hugh Jass]

Just now, TheGayTent said:

De Boer is never going to be interested in the likes of Leicester or Albion (or WHU for that matter).

Dunno, throw enough money his way and sell the "project" (I hate that word in football) and you never know. We're entering an age now where even the more modest Premier League clubs have much more financial muscle than our more illustrious European counterparts.

[kaosmark2]

De Boer could get a job at a team wanting to challenge for Europe. His stock is high enough that he doesn't need to gamble his first Prem job on a relegation threatened team.

[TheGayTent]

Ajax, turn down Liverpool, Inter....West Brom? 

Mmm don't think so!

[Hugh Jass]

7 minutes ago, TheGayTent said:

Ajax, turn down Liverpool, Inter....West Brom?

Mmm don't think so!

You mean like Hodgson who came to us from Liverpool having previously managed Inter?

Of course it almost certainly wouldn't, but stranger things have happened, Champions League winner Rafa Benitez currently manages a Championship outfit.

[TheGayTent]

6 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

You mean like Hodgson who came to us from Liverpool having previously managed Inter?

Of course it almost certainly wouldn't, but stranger things have happened, Champions League winner Rafa Benitez currently manages a Championship outfit.

De Boer isn't English and at the end of his career, nor is he living in England or have kids settled in English schools.