Are we In or Out?

[musky]

13 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Not necessarly a 'target', but it's a fact, baby boomers control a huge proprtion of the wealth/assetsin this country, even taking into account the disparity between rich and poor among that particular demographic. Again, how many semi skilled 20 year olds can get a mortgage these days? 

 

I agree that the rich have gotten richer, no doubt about it, but that's not the discussion here, it's more about voting intentions of the over 50s

Sure they do. Older people tend to have more money by both being further along the career path and so earning more money, and by benefiting from inheritance. 

The over 50s can remember the days before Britain joined the EEC. They were brought up on the last vestiges of the Empire and a diet of war films from a time when we could still lay claim to being a superpower. They're certainly not alone in blaming the EU for the woes this country is experiencing, but they can remember when Britain stood outside Europe. Rose tinted spectacles can make that proposition seem awfully appealing. 

[Spindles]

1 hour ago, shoptildrop said:

I just wish they would explain more on how businesses and trade will actually look like if we left? As all the stuff I've seen so far is mainly scaremongering ....I still not sure 

The exit camp have not even tried to explain the costs of creating from scratch the machinery of the EU that we make use of, how they intend to implement it, what happens to businesses that rely upon it.  I point to the cost and timescale that HS2 has incurred before even a track has been laid and ask if our state bureaucracy has the ability to provide the same services at a lower cost and higher standard than we currently get from the EU.

 

[grumpyhack]

If the INs have it by a large majority on here is that saying something about Glastonbury goers or EFesters - or might it represent the wider population?

[moremi]

As I am of a certain age I voted in the original referendum of 1975 to go out. But now it is very much for staying in even though I cannot vote as I live n Jersey.

[Cooter]

Out for me.

[mikegday]

Out.

[Digital Monkey (Womad)]

4 hours ago, Glastoboy said:

IN!

Does anyone really want to give even more power the bastard Tories? 

This comment baffles me as it is the very Tories who have offered us the Referendum? Something which Labour did not promise us in their election manifesto

Mind you, we should treat election manifesto's with a pinch of salt

 

 

[Spindles]

Did the Tories give us the referendum or did they give it to their own members who have been clamouring for it for over 20 years?  Honestly the question of Europe has long been more of an issue for internal conservative party debate than external public.  It is really only since the rise of UKIP that the mainstream media and a sizeable chunk of the public have got behind the idea of leaving Europe as far as I can tell.

[clarkete]

2 minutes ago, Digital Monkey (Womad) said:

This comment baffles me as it is the very Tories who have offered us the Referendum? Something which Labour did not promise us in their election manifesto

Mind you, we should treat election manifesto's with a pinch of salt

 

 

They offered the referendum to keep the anti eu element  of their party on side and to lessen votes leaving their party to go to the kippers 

[6t6o6m]

Controversial but in

[Titters]

I'm very much Remain - Better inside the te tent, and better risk management to be part of a group as far as I'm concerned. 

I don't think the vote is quite as straightforward as the polls suggest. My family are life long Labour supporters, who are voting out due to immagrants 'taking the jobs'. And my friends are outters as they think we can make better decisions on our own, rather than the EU making the rules... 

My main bug bear with the whole campaign has been the negative approach and scaremongering from both sides, with neither really putting forward solutions. For example, Remain could take the immigration issue head on - and make it a positive thing (like additional NI contributions made by employers employing foreign nationals...) or highlighting what changes they are going to try to secure within the EU council. 

Farage, Gove, Priti Patel, Boris... if this is who people want leading the country and making decisions, my mind boggles. 

[Sawdusty surfer]

@grumpyhack  Top thread. Good work dude. Chuffed to bits at the result of the poll. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 hour ago, musky said:

Of course they did, but let's not pretend that Thatcher was voted in entirely by a group of people born over a 16 year or so period. There was considerable opposition to her, reflected in opinion polls that prior to the Falklands War put her as the most unpopular PM in modern times. S

And none of that would matter a damn if pointing the finger at a nebulous group of Baby Boomers didn't allow the real culprits off the hook. It's actually possible to name names of people who are making the lives of millions of people worse rather than damning a diverse group of people, many of whom have spent a life opposing the attacks we've seen. 

It's perfectly possible to analyse trends in the baby boomer demographic and call out the likes of IDS and Michael Gove as the stains on society that they undoubtedly are.

[Titters]

I bet the pollsters are a bit twitchy after the election - they're probably pretty happy with this thread 

[Digital Monkey (Womad)]

Just now, clarkete said:

They offered the referendum to keep the anti eu element  of their party on side and to lessen votes leaving their party to go to the kippers 

Yes, agree with that absolutely

 

[Spindles]

3 minutes ago, Sawdusty Surfer said:

@grumpyhack  Top thread. Good work dude. Chuffed to bits at the result of the poll. 

Sadly unlikely to be representative of the population as a whole.  My impression is that, while the remain camp will win it will be quite a close margin (like 53-47%) that will give the exit camp an excuse to not accept the result of the referendum and keep on lobbying to leave (a bit like the Scottish Independence ref).  What I would really like to see would be a decisive vote to remain, which would shut the matter down for a generation or so.

[Mollyanne&Mike]

In.

... but really wish for a clear, concise and accurate reason for staying or leaving from the elected voices. As said by others, it's just back biting, scaremongering and a personality (or lack of) contest.

[somecoolusername]

9 minutes ago, Spindles said:

Sadly unlikely to be representative of the population as a whole.  My impression is that, while the remain camp will win it will be quite a close margin (like 53-47%) that will give the exit camp an excuse to not accept the result of the referendum and keep on lobbying to leave (a bit like the Scottish Independence ref).  What I would really like to see would be a decisive vote to remain, which would shut the matter down for a generation or so.

Completely agree. The Brexit camp are hedging their bets and anticipating a loss by already introducing the idea of a second referendum. Before we've even had the first one.

No. A democratic public vote is exactly that. The idea that we would then have another one due to an apparent lack of mandate is ridiculous. And turnout would of course be massively lower the second time, because people will see how ineffective their vote is if all it leads to is a second referendum. 

Low turnout and mandate are issues unto themselves, but if the Tories want to get into it then their general election victories should also be called into question...

[Spindles]

Indeed.  I think that referendum should always be called by act of parliament, specifying a minimum period before which another could be called or else it brings the whole process into farce.  If there is a second Scottish referendum I have to confess I'd be pretty annoyed.

[musky]

14 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

It's perfectly possible to analyse trends in the baby boomer demographic and call out the likes of IDS and Michael Gove as the stains on society that they undoubtedly are.

I'm all for that, but sadly calling out the politicians and the money that they're the mouthpieces for is sadly missing. Blaming Baby Boomers is a vice even the Daily Mail has indulged in, and given their penchant for blaming anyone other than the real culprits it should be no surprise that it has about as much credibility as blaming immigrants for our current hardships. 

I see the referendum largely as an argument between the rich and powerful over how best to screw us over and as such I'm minded not to vote at all. 

[Slugworth]

I'm Out. Not finding the European Superstate a fun idea.

 

Time will tell.

[SwedgeAntilles]

I believe European Superstate are DJing at Geonosys on Thursday night. 

[mungo57]

Personally I am out but I am aware I am a minority on here at least.

 

[Boozy]

I'm in. To me it seems like the exit camp is full of clowns, BoJo, Farage etc. I do not want to be associated with them. 

 

Part of of me can't wait for it to be over. It's like a pissing contest at the moment. I'm surprised no one has claimed the EU gives you AIDS or something. 

[Alex DeLarge]

Just now, Boozy said:

I'm in. To me it seems like the exit camp is full of clowns, BoJo, Farage etc. I do not want to be associated with them. 

To be honest I wouldn't let that sway your mind too much considering Cameron and Osborne are on the other side.