Glastonbury and Politics

[RichardWaller]

I hope this thread doesn't get too boring and/or argumentative, poll's private just like the real thing, can even tick more than one if you want, as if the AV side won a few years back.. If you want to say your answers in the thread go for it, I've gone Green. I'm just curious.

Obviously Glastonbury has a long and proud tradition of activism, charity, protest and social justice but since its roots the festival has grown a lot and continues to attract people from all over the world. Law of averages, pretty sure Glastonbury isn't a 100% left wing love in, there are bound to be people with differing views. The politics etc is one thing that draws me to the festival, but I'm sure there must be others who attend who are put off that, maybe they're in favour of bombing Syria, privatising the NHS, leaving the EU or whatever. Alright, won't be the best sample going but I'm just trying to kill a bit of time while I wait for the festival and I'm curious. 

 

[Joshuwarr]

I'm an active member of the Lib Dems and serve on the governing body. I very much sit on the left of the party though so have great sympathies with much of the ethos of the festival and it's radical politics.

[6t6o6m]

I voted none/other as I decide closer to the time when elections come around. I have no ties to any party and I like to keep it that way.

In previous elections I have voted labour, lib dem and Conservatives.

[Hugh Jass]

I usually vote Labour, but that's mainly because I have a soul so I don't vote Tory, I don't vote Lib Dem as I'm still smarting over the Clegg betrayal and I'm not a racist so I don't vote UKIP/BNP/etc.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Hugh Jass

[Hotchilidog]

I'm Green. Lucky enough to live in Brighton Pavilion and be represented by the excellent Caroline Lucas. I am also a big fan of Jeremy Corbyn, sadly the B&H Labour party is a bastion of red-tories and I could never support the local Labour Party who are completely out of step with the new membership.

[jumbomcnutt]

9 minutes ago, Hotchilidog said:

I'm Green. Lucky enough to live in Brighton Pavilion and be represented by the excellent Caroline Lucas. I am also a big fan of Jeremy Corbyn, sadly the B&H Labour party is a bastion of red-tories and I could never support the local Labour Party who are completely out of step with the new membership.

I'm just inside Hove so miss out on Caroline Lucas which is a shame as I would vote for her. But I often get the impression people vote for Caroline Lucas rather than vote for the Greens. She is that good. Met her a few times, and is a switched on individual.

[emilyboris]

Green member, so voted accordingly. Had an odd exchange with someone on twitter who was incensed that Corbyn had been booked to speak at the festival and claimed he was getting rid of his ticket as a result. 'Hijacked by politics' was the phrase he used. His profile was full of anti-immigration rhetoric, some of it particularly unpleasant, and he wasn't happy about the 'leftie luvvies' invading the festival. He also claimed to have been going for years. 

As you said, there are going to be a range of people at the festival, with different views, different priorities, different plans for their week. Many won't engage with the political side explicitly (either deliberately or not), and that's their right to do so. But how you can have gone to the festival repeatedly and yet remain so ignorant of its activist traditions and the continued presence of both radical and some more mainstream left politics, to the point where you'd be shocked + appalled that Corbyn was invited to speak due to his 'leftism', is beyond me. 

[RichardWaller]

12 minutes ago, 6t6o6m said:

I voted none/other as I decide closer to the time when elections come around. I have no ties to any party and I like to keep it that way.

In previous elections I have voted labour, lib dem and Conservatives.

I almost picked none/other myself. I like Corbyn, but I feel that puts me in an awkward position with Labour. Supporting Labour should by rights mean supporting Corbyn, but it'll also mean supporting many of his opponents so what do you do... 

It's interesting that there are people who'll alternate between Labour, Lib Dems and Conservatives now, there's probably more overlap than ever. There must be Tory voters out there who'd have never dreamt of their party allowing gay marriage or having ethnic minority MPs, and Labour voters who'd have never dreamt of their party continuing privatisation, and cooperating in unjust wars.. I suppose I could've worded the question a bit better, there's too much of a difference between who claims to be closest and who is, what we're told we're voting for and what we actually are...

[GoonerRob]

Lefty here. Labour / Green (picked labour in the poll)...

Hate the tories. 

[found home in 2009]

26 minutes ago, Joshuwarr said:

I'm an active member of the Lib Dems and serve on the governing body. I very much sit on the left of the party though so have great sympathies with much of the ethos of the festival and it's radical politics.

I'm also a member of Lib Dems with views to the left of the party. Think we're on opposite ends of the extremes on how active/involved we are by the sound of it though. I should maybe try to fix that.

7 minutes ago, jumbomcnutt said:

I'm just inside Hove so miss out on Caroline Lucas which is a shame as I would vote for her. But I often get the impression people vote for Caroline Lucas rather than vote for the Greens. She is that good. Met her a few times, and is a switched on individual.

I think a similar thing happened with Ruth Davidson and the Tories in the Scottish elections. She comes across as very likeable and competent and they've went from being a hated party in Scotland to the official opposition under her leadership.

Might be deluding myself as I dislike them so much but I really see their success in Scotland as down to her rather than the party as a whole.

Though Scottish Labour has done a wonderful job of pretty much alienating the whole country.

[Joshuwarr]

1 minute ago, found home in 2009 said:

I'm also a member of Lib Dems with views to the left of the party. Think we're on opposite ends of the extremes on how active/involved we are by the sound of it though. I should maybe try to fix that.

If you ever want to find ways to get more involved I'm happy to chat any time  

[Hotchilidog]

10 minutes ago, jumbomcnutt said:

I'm just inside Hove so miss out on Caroline Lucas which is a shame as I would vote for her. But I often get the impression people vote for Caroline Lucas rather than vote for the Greens. She is that good. Met her a few times, and is a switched on individual.

You are right about Caroline's personal vote as I know non-Greens who vote for her even if notionally they support other parties. Lucas is a well repsected MP who does an awful lot for her constituents and as theonly Green in parliament has a lot more clout than a member of one of the mainstream parties. If I lived in Hove I may have ben tempted to vote Labour as the most likely non-tory winner. That said having listened to Peter Kyle since his election there is no way I'd consider voting for him. He has been a colossal disappointment, if he thought Liz Kendall was the answer to Labour woes he should consider joining another party.

Anyway that's enough politics from me, back to the what are we all doing wed/thursday thread :)

[RichardWaller]

22 minutes ago, emilyboris said:

Green member, so voted accordingly. Had an odd exchange with someone on twitter who was incensed that Corbyn had been booked to speak at the festival and claimed he was getting rid of his ticket as a result. 'Hijacked by politics' was the phrase he used. His profile was full of anti-immigration rhetoric, some of it particularly unpleasant, and he wasn't happy about the 'leftie luvvies' invading the festival. He also claimed to have been going for years. 

As you said, there are going to be a range of people at the festival, with different views, different priorities, different plans for their week. Many won't engage with the political side explicitly (either deliberately or not), and that's their right to do so. But how you can have gone to the festival repeatedly and yet remain so ignorant of its activist traditions and the continued presence of both radical and some more mainstream left politics, to the point where you'd be shocked + appalled that Corbyn was invited to speak due to his 'leftism', is beyond me. 

How many times did Tony Benn appear? 

I wish it surprised me, does sound familiar though, seen stuff like that... I'm as baffled as you are, anyone who's been once, anyone who even knows anything about the festival without even necessarily having been there knows about its history and involvement in social justice. "Hijacked by politics"... I don't get the mentality behind things like that, not while we've got politicians meddling in health and education and telling doctors and teachers to stay out of politics as if it's not their place... Weird. Not only that, but if the lad has been that many times, surely he'd realise that if he's that desperate to avoid Corbyn it'l be pretty bloody easy, it's massive. Still, hope he has stuck to his word and got rid of his ticket, hope he's be furious with the donations he's made to refugees and Glastonbury is a better place without people like him.

[SwedgeAntilles]

Voted Green/Socialist at the election just passed. 

[mungo57]

I am a Labour member since just before the last leadership election, so I voted for them.

I am rather to the left of the party (hence me joining when I did) - I consider myself to be a socialist through and through. I voted Lib Dem at the general election as in my ward (Twickenham) I was fighting to keep Vince Cable IN and Tories OUT. We lost and now have a Tory MP.

 

Will definitely be going to see JC's speech, tent not being packed permitting.

[emilyboris]

Just now, RichardWaller said:

How many times did Tony Benn appear? 

I wish it surprised me, does sound familiar though, seen stuff like that... I'm as baffled as you are, anyone who's been once, anyone who even knows anything about the festival without even necessarily having been there knows about its history and involvement in social justice. "Hijacked by politics"... I don't get the mentality behind things like that, not while we've got politicians meddling in health and education and telling doctors and teachers to stay out of politics as if it's not their place... Weird. Not only that, but if the lad has been that many times, surely he'd realise that if he's that desperate to avoid Corbyn it'l be pretty bloody easy, it's massive. Still, hope he has stuck to his word and got rid of his ticket, hope he's be furious with the donations he's made to refugees and Glastonbury is a better place without people like him.

He just seemed completely ignorant of anything the fest stands for and the sort of people who go. Complaining about paying a 'high price' to see a 'leftie luvvie politician'. I wouldn't be surprised if he was talking out of his bum about having gone before-of if he had, must have walked from their tent, to the pyramid, and immediately back. 

People who hold entirely different views to those involved in the festival, but basically ignore that and go along and have a great time anyway is understandable (though I'm sure many people might wish they engaged, in the hopes of persuading them otherwise). But those who have a firm hatred, or at least strong negative feelings, towards 'leftie luvvies', and want nothing to do with them, could only be entirely ignorant of their surroundings if they go to Glastonbury every year. Ignorant to the point that I'd be genuinely concerned about their ability to form any opinion based on real life. 

We can only hope he's sacked it off, and will do so in the future. 

[clarkete]

All I've ever done is vote tactically for whoever to the left of the tory is most likely to beat them.

BTW.  In 1985 Philip Eavis  (ME's brother) was in the Liberal party, who had a stall selling cheese rolls 3 for a quid and that was how and why I came.  It was their biggest fund raiser of the year by a massive margin. 

He in turn went on to become a Lib Dem, yet his brother many years later stood as MP for Wells for the Labour party.  Not sure if Philip is still going or active in politics, but don't doubt this must have caused some grief.

Edited May 25, 2016 by clarkete

[found home in 2009]

4 hours ago, Joshuwarr said:

If you ever want to find ways to get more involved I'm happy to chat any time  

Cheers. Realistically I'm not going to take time off or pay expense of going to main conference. I also don't feel that comfortable with the idea of phoning people.

Should make more of an effort to go to things organised by my local party though. So far the only way I've really participated is going to the Scottish conference.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

I quite liked the idea of the Lib Dems before I was old enough to vote. Unfortunately for them my turning old enough to vote more or less coincided with the tuition fees and PR debacles, so I joined Labour instead and fell in love with the whole circus - then Corbyn happened and I gave him a chance for six months but the whole antisemitism thing disengaged me to the extent I let my membership lapse a few weeks ago. I shall still vote for them and I won't be joining another party but I am not going to pay another penny towards supporting this shambles of a leadership, I'm afraid

Edited May 25, 2016 by Zac Quinn

[Spindles]

I'm a Labour party voter and member who recognises that his own views are so far to the left of the electorate as to be akin to believing in fairies.  

I want proper proportional representation as successfully demonstrated in several other European democracies, which would bring an end to one party rule and make coalition the norm.  I understand from the watered down referendum vote on AV that the public as a whole doesn't have the appetite for this and the major parties are unlikely to offer an even more radical change any time soon.

 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

8 minutes ago, Spindles said:

I'm a Labour party voter and member who recognises that his own views are so far to the left of the electorate as to be akin to believing in fairies.  

I want proper proportional representation as successfully demonstrated in several other European democracies, which would bring an end to one party rule and make coalition the norm.  I understand from the watered down referendum vote on AV that the public as a whole doesn't have the appetite for this and the major parties are unlikely to offer an even more radical change any time soon.

 

I don't know, I feel like the pro-AV campaign was so half-hearted that taking its failure as absolute evidence that the public don't want every vote to count is a bit pessimistic. Although I do agree it's going to be a long time before it properly comes up for debate again, and it certainly isn't going to happen with the Torys in charge

Edited May 25, 2016 by Zac Quinn

[Tigerdragon]

6 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

I quite liked the idea of the Lib Dems before I was old enough to vote. Unfortunately for them my turning old enough to vote more or less coincided with the tuition fees and PR debacles, so I joined Labour instead and fell in love with the whole circus - then Corbyn happened and I gave him a chance for six months but the whole antisemitism thing disengaged me to the extent I let my membership lapse a few weeks ago. I shall still vote for them and I won't be joining another party but I am not going to pay another penny towards supporting this shambles of a leadership, I'm afraid

In what way was the leadership responsible for what occurred? They handled the outspoken comments of a naive backbencher and the spent force that is Ken Livingston with diligence, I felt. They investigated, they acted, they continue to investigate - what would you have done differently? What would have happened in a corporate setting?

Thats not to deny that antisemitism exists in certain parts of the left. I'm just not sure how you've linked those elements with the values Corbyn has, and his ability to run the party!

(Of course, no matter what action you take, you can't deal with the media response. They did not report Corbyn's solutions nearly as prominently as the problem, which might give an impression of inactivity and incompetence. That would, I suppose, be the whole point.)

As for the question, I would love for Corbyn to get into power, and will vote for that possibility because socialism, or even a tempered version of it under the banner of wide-spread 'social fairness', would do the country endless good. I just can't help but think that his ideas have had their moment. It is a problem of the far left that socialism - which its proponents of the 70s and 80s would not see working today by their accounts of when socialism can and should occur - seems to be the categorical answer. But there are loads of radical/progressive (pick your favourite of those two words!) ways to bring about social justice and progress.

A guaranteed citizens allowance would be a start. The Greens used to have that as a key long-term goal... 

[Smeble]

Voted none/other as I'll make up my mind at each election who to go for

[Rose-Colored Boy]

4 minutes ago, Tigerdragon said:

In what way was the leadership responsible for what occurred? They handled the outspoken comments of a naive backbencher and the spent force that is Ken Livingston with diligence, I felt. They investigated, they acted, they continue to investigate - what would you have done differently? What would have happened in a corporate setting?

Thats not to deny that antisemitism exists in certain parts of the left. I'm just not sure how you've linked those elements with the values Corbyn has, and his ability to run the party!

(Of course, no matter what action you take, you can't deal with the media response. They did not report Corbyn's solutions nearly as prominently as the problem, which might give an impression of inactivity and incompetence. That would, I suppose, be the whole point.)

I just though Corbyn's response took too long and was too timid, and as a result blew any chance of actually getting across to other members with similar views that they're unacceptable. Calling Shah into his office and implying that that was the end of the matter and she isn't going to be suspended, only to then suspend her hours later? Eh? Plus the ridiculousness over her drafted apology being apparently watered down by the leader's office from something actually meaningful and impactful to basically nothing - in the end it turned out that it had been a mix-up but the damage was done and shouldn't have been allowed to be. The zero-tolerance approach that McDonnell called for in March (“It is a harder line because I’m not having it. People might say ‘I’ve changed my views’ – well, do something in another organisation”) is much less wishy-washy, and based on that I'd have less problem rejoining if McDonnell replaced Corbyn (I'd personally prefer a centrist replacement, but that isn't going to happen).

[DeanoL]

43 minutes ago, Spindles said:

I'm a Labour party voter and member who recognises that his own views are so far to the left of the electorate as to be akin to believing in fairies.  

I want proper proportional representation as successfully demonstrated in several other European democracies, which would bring an end to one party rule and make coalition the norm.  I understand from the watered down referendum vote on AV that the public as a whole doesn't have the appetite for this and the major parties are unlikely to offer an even more radical change any time soon.

 

I think the general public want PR. The problem is the general public think we already have it. The mistake people make is assuming people understand first past the post and the U.K. Electoral system. The majority vote for the leader of the party they like most on TV and assume the system must be fair and that their vote counts, even if they don't understand it. They have faith in the current system. Because most people can't comprehend the idea that it could be as broken as it is.

The path to PR starts with tearing down that faith. I swear all the AV referendum told us is that people would prefer PR to AV. After all, everyone was very much in favour of "one person, one vote" which the "no" campaign pushed.

I'm fairly sure if you explained FPTP and PR and told people to pick the one they wanted, with no preconceptions, PR would win by a landslide.