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Glastonbury and Politics


RichardWaller
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Which party is closest to your beliefs?  

253 members have voted

  1. 1. Which party is closest to your beliefs?

    • Conservatives
      20
    • Greens
      72
    • Labour
      110
    • Liberal Democrats
      36
    • Monster Raving Loony
      5
    • Plaid Cymru
      1
    • Scottish National Party
      2
    • Socialist Labour
      12
    • UKIP
      3
    • None/Other
      20


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I lean towards the left and would be happy to support Labour, the Lib Dems if they can get themselves together, Green's etc. but I'm going to look at how they act over the next few years and make a full decision closer to the election. After seeing what the Tories have done to the disabled,  Junior Doctors, Teachers and countless other groups I couldn't vote for them any time soon (if ever).

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I am Lib Dem not voted for any one else, I grew up in the Thatchers 80's so I remember all the poll tax protests, miners etc, I think Lib dems get a bum rap over the coalition granted the fees were not great I think we really need to put this at Conservatives door, Imagine what would of happened if lib dems were not there the hold them back, I think we have found that out now Conservatives have the majority. The way I've chosen is by reviewing each parties policies and Lib dems ticks a lot of boxes for me, there was a web site where you can read all of the policies however it does not tell you which party it's for until you have finished selecting the one you agree with https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

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I have always voted Labour even through the new labour years that I was able to vote. Mainly during those years as it was about helping towards a vote in keeping the Tories out and my area is a very small red area in a sea of blue. Currently I am happy that Labour has a left wing leader as this sits closer to my politics. 

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6 hours ago, emilyboris said:

He just seemed completely ignorant of anything the fest stands for and the sort of people who go. Complaining about paying a 'high price' to see a 'leftie luvvie politician'. I wouldn't be surprised if he was talking out of his bum about having gone before-of if he had, must have walked from their tent, to the pyramid, and immediately back. 

People who hold entirely different views to those involved in the festival, but basically ignore that and go along and have a great time anyway is understandable (though I'm sure many people might wish they engaged, in the hopes of persuading them otherwise). But those who have a firm hatred, or at least strong negative feelings, towards 'leftie luvvies', and want nothing to do with them, could only be entirely ignorant of their surroundings if they go to Glastonbury every year. Ignorant to the point that I'd be genuinely concerned about their ability to form any opinion based on real life. 

We can only hope he's sacked it off, and will do so in the future. 

I'd be more surprised if he wasn't talking out the other end. If he had, like you say, he can't have done any exploring really. 

Yeah, I understand that too. Maybe it's a PR stunt but remember when David Cameron claimed to be a fan of The Jam? If he were, he'd have heard Eton Rifles..Just goes to show that you don't have to agree with someone's views to appreciate their work. Well, unless we're pretending like Cameron probably is and it's so much easier... I like The Smiths but I hate Morrissey, he makes me feel like I have to apologise for being a vegetarian.

But yes, better off without people like that.

 

Also, relieved but not quite surprised for this poll to have gotten into three figures without any Kippers.

Edited by RichardWaller
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1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

I think the general public want PR. The problem is the general public think we already have it. The mistake people make is assuming people understand first past the post and the U.K. Electoral system. The majority vote for the leader of the party they like most on TV and assume the system must be fair and that their vote counts, even if they don't understand it. They have faith in the current system. Because most people can't comprehend the idea that it could be as broken as it is.

The path to PR starts with tearing down that faith. I swear all the AV referendum told us is that people would prefer PR to AV. After all, everyone was very much in favour of "one person, one vote" which the "no" campaign pushed.

I'm fairly sure if you explained FPTP and PR and told people to pick the one they wanted, with no preconceptions, PR would win by a landslide.

Do you really think the British public are this stupid? That we don't actually understand the voting system we have used since beyond current voters' lifetimes? And that people voted 'no' because they actually wanted something that wasn't on offer (but was MUCH further from the 'no' campaign than AV)?

This is a little similar to the contempt some of the left sometimes seem to show for working class people because they choose to read the Sun and don't understand its possible to read a Sun editorial and still arrive at a different view.

I think most people are smarter than this. and that's why they can be trusted to participate in democracy.

Edited by Waapster
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i hate all politics and get really fucking annoyed when your having a pint and some ones going on about it .....you vote and HOPE they do wot they say there gonna do BUT then they never do and people STILL get fucked off ................listen they ALL lie its ALL bollocks end ov ..you at a festi enjoy it ..

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1 hour ago, emmett milbarge said:

I am Lib Dem not voted for any one else, I grew up in the Thatchers 80's so I remember all the poll tax protests, miners etc, I think Lib dems get a bum rap over the coalition granted the fees were not great I think we really need to put this at Conservatives door, Imagine what would of happened if lib dems were not there the hold them back, I think we have found that out now Conservatives have the majority. The way I've chosen is by reviewing each parties policies and Lib dems ticks a lot of boxes for me, there was a web site where you can read all of the policies however it does not tell you which party it's for until you have finished selecting the one you agree with https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

I agree that having the Lib Dems in the coalition was more positive than a Tory majority, but the party didn't really make enough effort-or at least were extremely unsuccessful in doing so-to sell themselves as the people saving us from the Tories. It just looked like they were chumming up. While I acknowledge this, I have a strong dislike of the Lib Dems. It's easy to paint the rise in tuition fees as inevitable, but the complete betrayal of this generation (I started university in the first year of triple fees) not only damaged faith in the Lib Dems themselves, but thousands of young people's faith in politicians. Nick Clegg went out of his way to make himself the friend of the student, and repaid their votes by breaking his promise to them (okay, the majority of those affected weren't eligible to vote). Struggle to see them regaining any significant vote from people of my age any time soon.

That website's really good, they're doing great work, recommend everyone uses it. 

30 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

I'd be more surprised if he wasn't talking out the other end. If he had, like you say, he can't have done any exploring really. 

Yeah, I understand that too. Maybe it's a PR stunt but remember when David Cameron claimed to be a fan of The Jam? If he were, he'd have heard Eton Rifles..Just goes to show that you don't have to agree with someone's views to appreciate their work. Well, unless we're pretending like Cameron probably is and it's so much easier... I like The Smiths but I hate Morrissey, he makes me feel like I have to apologise for being a vegetarian.

But yes, better off without people like that.

I think the value we can attach to Cameron saying he's a fan of something is pretty much nothing by this point! I think if we had to discard all music made by horrible obnoxious people, we'd be left with a lot of pretty bland music-though I stand by rejecting music I might like that is produced by people with views I find totally abhorrent. 

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17 minutes ago, emilyboris said:

It's easy to paint the rise in tuition fees as inevitable, but the complete betrayal of this generation (I started university in the first year of triple fees) not only damaged faith in the Lib Dems themselves, but thousands of young people's faith in politicians. Nick Clegg went out of his way to make himself the friend of the student, and repaid their votes by breaking his promise to them (okay, the majority of those affected weren't eligible to vote). Struggle to see them regaining any significant vote from people of my age any time soon.

I think you're right that there were people who left their party as a result primarily of that one issue, or who had voted for them previously who swear off doing so ever again.

Unfortunately for us as the electorate, that means that there are whole areas of the country (including Somerset for example) where they had spent decades achieving any impact which are now tory and it's hard to see that changing without something cataclysmic - labour didn't get much hold there even in the new labour years. 

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15 minutes ago, Waapster said:

Do you really think the British public are this stupid? That we don't actually understand the voting system we have used since beyond current voters' lifetimes? And that people voted 'no' because they actually wanted something that wasn't on offer (but was MUCH further from the 'no' campaign than AV)?

This is a little similar to the contempt some of the left sometimes seem to show for working class people because they choose to read the Sun and don't understand its possible to read a Sun editorial and still arrive at a different view.

I think most people are smarter than this. and that's why they can be trusted to participate in democracy.

I wouldn't call it a lack of intelligence, more a lack of interest. Most people probably make a completely reasonable decision based on the information that they have available to them, but aren't prepared to spend time investigating political issues beyond this. Which is understandable. It's not calling people stupid to say that voters are swayed on PR campaigns-else why would they spend the ridiculous sums they do on them? The pro-AV campaign was a shambles, led by a man who didn't want it, and who the voters didn't trust. 

Having said that, would suggest you have a look at the data on how 2nd choice votes were cast in the London Mayoral Election this month. Difficult to explain unless you consider that a large number of people simply did not understand how these votes were counted. 

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3 minutes ago, clarkete said:

I think you're right that there were people who left their party as a result primarily of that one issue, or who had voted for them previously who swear off doing so ever again.

Unfortunately for us as the electorate, that means that there are whole areas of the country (including Somerset for example) where they had spent decades achieving any impact which are now tory and it's hard to see that changing without something cataclysmic - labour didn't get much hold there even in the new labour years. 

It's not even simply the people who left the party, or swore to never vote for them again-but those who were put off the democratic process entirely. 

Don't disagree with you at all. I live near the last London constituency with a Lib Dem MP, and was baffled at friends who live there voting for them, but of course it's to keep the Tories out. Labour is definitely the third party of outer SW London. With all the absolute wreckage the Tories keep churning out, and Labour unable to effectively hold them to account, I can't understand why the Lib Dems aren't reclaiming that centre ground and taking on the role of the opposition. Or maybe they are, and no one's listening to them. Until they start doing so (arguably events have already passed that if taken advantage of could have been 'cataclysmic'), it's going to be a long uphill climb. 

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50 minutes ago, Waapster said:

Do you really think the British public are this stupid? That we don't actually understand the voting system we have used since beyond current voters' lifetimes? And that people voted 'no' because they actually wanted something that wasn't on offer (but was MUCH further from the 'no' campaign than AV)?

This is a little similar to the contempt some of the left sometimes seem to show for working class people because they choose to read the Sun and don't understand its possible to read a Sun editorial and still arrive at a different view.

I think most people are smarter than this. and that's why they can be trusted to participate in democracy.

Not stupid, but uninformed. Were you ever taught it at school? We weren't, at least not formally.

And if you look at the mainstream media coverage of general elections: they're presented as essentially prime-ministerial races.

My parents aren't stupid, both have run their own successful businesses. They had an interest in politics to a degree - they enjoyed the drama of elections and had solid views on what party they wanted to vote for. They even got that they were electing a local MP in the general election. And that the most MPs made a government. The basics.

But they didn't get the "every vote past the post is wasted" concept. It's not just the understanding, it's getting the consequences. That Labour could win 299 seats by thousands of votes each, while the Tories could win 301 seats all by a single vote, and the Tories win. I genuinely think there's a belief that "it couldn't be that unfair".

14 minutes ago, emilyboris said:

Having said that, would suggest you have a look at the data on how 2nd choice votes were cast in the London Mayoral Election this month. Difficult to explain unless you consider that a large number of people simply did not understand how these votes were counted. 

I consider myself fairly up on politics but I have to admit, the West Mids police commissioner vote threw me as it wasn't obvious from the ballot paper or instructions that you had the option of just casting a single vote.

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1 hour ago, emilyboris said:

It's not even simply the people who left the party, or swore to never vote for them again-but those who were put off the democratic process entirely. 

Don't disagree with you at all. I live near the last London constituency with a Lib Dem MP, and was baffled at friends who live there voting for them, but of course it's to keep the Tories out. Labour is definitely the third party of outer SW London. With all the absolute wreckage the Tories keep churning out, and Labour unable to effectively hold them to account, I can't understand why the Lib Dems aren't reclaiming that centre ground and taking on the role of the opposition. Or maybe they are, and no one's listening to them. Until they start doing so (arguably events have already passed that if taken advantage of could have been 'cataclysmic'), it's going to be a long uphill climb. 

We're doing our best to do just that. The problem is the party is at such a diminished point that the media won't give us a look in. We've led on issues like the refugee crisis where we were the only party to really be demanding action from the offset. No doubt the tuition fees betrayal makes it difficult to regain trust (believe me, i was a student Lib Dem fighting from the inside), but liberalism and what it stands for is too important to lose in British politics. It was liberals that first called for an NHS, liberals that first had a gay rights policy, liberals that led the fight against apartheid, liberals that scrapped tuition fees (in Scotland, ahem) and a Lib Dem minister that delivered same-sex marriage (despite protests from right wing Tories). We can and will continue to achieve great things but only if people come back to fight for it's survival.

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5 minutes ago, Joshuwarr said:

We're doing our best to do just that. The problem is the party is at such a diminished point that the media won't give us a look in. We've led on issues like the refugee crisis where we were the only party to really be demanding action from the offset. No doubt the tuition fees betrayal makes it difficult to regain trust (believe me, i was a student Lib Dem fighting from the inside), but liberalism and what it stands for is too important to lose in British politics. It was liberals that first called for an NHS, liberals that first had a gay rights policy, liberals that led the fight against apartheid, liberals that scrapped tuition fees (in Scotland, ahem) and a Lib Dem minister that delivered same-sex marriage (despite protests from right wing Tories). We can and will continue to achieve great things but only if people come back to fight for it's survival.

If you look at Wells for example, I moved there in the mid 80s and they had 5 general elections from that point until a Lib Dem MP was elected as part of the coalition, but the tories won it back in 2015 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s

Some of this is reflected in County results too, so having the same party only being supported by a minority of the electorate but having a majority in parliament and controlling a fair few counties is not good for democracy and enables them to carry out unpopular policies with ease.

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9 minutes ago, clarkete said:

If you look at Wells for example, I moved there in the mid 80s and they had 5 general elections from that point until a Lib Dem MP was elected as part of the coalition, but the tories won it back in 2015 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s

Some of this is reflected in County results too, so having the same party only being supported by a minority of the electorate but having a majority in parliament and controlling a fair few counties is not good for democracy and enables them to carry out unpopular policies with ease.

That is not the fault of the Lib Dems but the broken electoral system. The Tories in 2010 still had a higher vote share than Labour in 2005, the latter who won a majority. If people want an end to the broken system then they need to vote for parties that support fixing it.

I'm sad Tessa Munt lost her seat in Wells. She was a fierce, progressive MP who was always willing to stick her neck out, even if that meant voting against her own party in coalition.

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2 hours ago, emilyboris said:

I think the value we can attach to Cameron saying he's a fan of something is pretty much nothing by this point! I think if we had to discard all music made by horrible obnoxious people, we'd be left with a lot of pretty bland music-though I stand by rejecting music I might like that is produced by people with views I find totally abhorrent. 

Aye, Cameron can't remember what football team he supports so wouldn't expect much there..

i can understand rejecting music by people whose views you find abhorrent, but I do try to separate the artists and the art. On the other hand, it does sometimes endear me to artists and their work if I share views with them. Not always. I can get a similar level of enjoyment out of a song that is politically charged, that does shout back at me my own opinions, and a song that's about nothing really or something relatively banal. I think it'd have to be summat pretty extreme for me to reject someone's art. People are able to look past some of the awful things the likes of Morrissey, Bryan Ferry, Suggs etc have said and done and I think sometimes people make the mistake of thinking that if you consume music, literature, art, whatever by someone with certain views then it means you either share or condone them, which just isn't true. I'm not the moral police and so long as its nowt too daft like Screwdriver.. I dunno, it's an awkward one. 

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2 minutes ago, Joshuwarr said:

I'm sad Tessa Munt lost her seat in Wells. She was a fierce, progressive MP who was always willing to stick her neck out, even if that meant voting against her own party in coalition.

I never met her, but as you say she came across well in some weird and difficult times and certainly succeeded where so many others had failed, which takes some doing.

For the electoral system, the two biggest groups that want that after the last general election were the kippers and the greens and neither of them are able to push it very far. 

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future if the kippers cease to exist, which was suggested by some of them fairly recently.

 

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I am a Labour member who is depressed about the state of the party at the moment and would like to see a change of leadership but holds out no hope in the short term, and only a little hope in the long term. It has been interesting reading the views of this little unrepresentative sample (people who really like Glastonbury and are also interested in politics?) 

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8 hours ago, CHRLY said:

I voted none/other in terms of my actual beliefs. I am a Labour man though, simply in the sense that they're the only option that isn't the Tories.

It's sad how wide that belief is, I've subscribed to it to a point but over the past couple of years I've started to resent voting for a party that I don't believe represents me and I do see as the lesser of two evils. I just don't think, as a party, Labour are that ambitious or true to their roots anymore. I think they've grown complacent and are dependent on the "not Tory" vote rather than earning votes themselves. May be a waste, but I've started voting for Green rather than against Tories. British politics needs some hope, cynicism is hardly engaging is it?

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20 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

I usually vote Labour, but that's mainly because I have a soul so I don't vote Tory, I don't vote Lib Dem as I'm still smarting over the Clegg betrayal and I'm not a racist so I don't vote UKIP/BNP/etc.

My feelings exactly. 1 upboat for you.

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I think the Libdems will claw back some support at the next election.  As a coalition is likely one way or another they should have a chance to redeem themselves to the electorate by again providing some reigning in on the majority party of the day, which they succeeded in doing to some extent in their 5 years in Government.

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It's been a long time since I have posted on these forums but this thread really struck a chord with me. I've been attending the festival for 13 years, first attending when I was 18 and this year will be my 10th festival. I'm not posting here to be attacked, merely to offer up an individual view which may be different from other posters so far. 

I vote Conservative these days, having come from a background where Labour is the norm and having also voted for the Greens and Lib Dems whilst an undergraduate. My political outlook comes from a generally socially conservative outlook as well as a belief, fostered since entering employment, that conservative social and economic policy accords with my own view that government should generally be small and that the individual should generally be free of societal intervention and allowed to get on with their lives. 

I am aware that attendees at the festival will generally be left leaning and that their (political) views will often not accord with my own, something which is borne out by the above poll. However, I think that it's still possible to have a great time at the festival whilst also having one's views challenged and learning more about the alternatives to one's own worldview. I think on would have to walk around with their fingers in their ears without seeing that the whole ethos of the festival tends to be on the left of centre, I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, it in fact enhances the festival experience for me to know that it isn't beholden to commercial interests quite as much as other such events (I have previously attended V and Reading festivals).

I think that Glastonbury is probably unique in being a large event in which the political "left" ideology is put front and centre. However, it is interesting that there is a perception from the outside that the festival is now attended by a majority of wealthy middle class gap-year types who have no interest in the roots of the festival. Something which I think is manifestly untrue and I do wonder where this comes from (possibly off-topic).

What I do feel is slightly disingenuous, both at the festival and in society generally, is that conservatives are viewed as being soulless, bigoted and selfish individuals. This is certainly not the case in my experience and I think that to take such a trite, entrenched position often detracts from a debate which otherwise could serve to enhance both side's understanding. Polemic over! I hope you all have a great festival and I may even be attending the meet in the Cabaret field on Wednesday.        

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