Taking kids out of school...

[Glastoboy]

I've got three kids, top-set, grade A student's. I've taken them to Glastonbury, on holiday and for family events countless times over the years.

The schools themselves have taken them out to compete in sporting events, play in concerts and shows, academic competitions etc etc.

The key is catching up on the missed work either way. My kids and the school both know the score, so the 'lying' involved is just keeping the fines away. Where does the money even go?

One last point. This was brought in initially to allegedly combat truanting. Those families presumably had the least opportunity to pay the fines anyway. Now they are openly admitting that they are targeting holidaying families. Well fuck 'em, they won't catch me.

[themuel]

 

You did though....  You said things which went beyond opinion.

Ok, I apologise for not ending every sentence in my original post with 'in my opinion.' I wrongly assumed that given the general tone of my piece and the fact I mentioned how lucky I was, that you would be able to infer I was talking from my experiences.

As is so often the case for me on efestivals these days, I regret joining the discussion and daring to voice a differing opinion to one of the regulars.

Sorry this has gone off topic OP, it wasn't my intention as it is a subject I am interested in.  I work across a large number of schools and deal with hundreds of teachers and pupils, so I see it on an almost daily basis.

Night all. 

[Bisque]

[Badlands]

Glad you learnt your lesson!

you're a right bundle of fun mind

[russycarps]

Aren't we all just giving opinions? I don't understand why you're so argumentative/dismissive. I joined the discussion to add my thoughts, not claim to know more than anyone else. 

 

It's what barry does. 

Go back to the discussion forum please barry. We don't suffer aching simpletons here gladly.

[DeanoL]

I don't have kids so it is not my business what parents do, as long as the kids are on top of their work and are able to catch up on the work they miss I don't see the big deal.

They're not going to be able to catch-up on the work though. Not on their own. Not with just you.

To catch up on the work, they'll need extra help from the teacher. And yes, for a kid doing well, that might be ten minutes once a year and no big deal. But teachers don't just teach your kids. They teach all the kids. And if all the kids start doing it, that ten minutes is multiplied by 500, and for kids doing less well, it's more than ten minutes. And it quickly becomes unmanageable.

Yes, informally, if your kid is doing well a teacher might say they're fine with them having time off. But if ask them if they're okay with all the kids doing this, you'll get a very different response.

Teacher training days, school trips etc. are fine because all the kids take the same days off. That's why school holidays exist as a thing.

It could be fixed by hiring more teachers, thus allowing time for that extra tuition. If people are willing pay the extra tax needed to fund that. But given we've just elected a Tory government, that seems unlikely.

[acidstorm523]

Without wishing  to sound like I live in la la land. Is there not a wider issue? The way we live in this country, which is lucky and wonderful in the world without doubt, is not the only way to live this life. In my opinion ( obv) , we have one glorious life on this planet, and there is a whole lot to experience. To say that parents are inconsiderate to teachers if they take their kids out... Well, it's just one part of it. But these are also our children's lives, one offs, and I want them to have amazing experiences, not be trapped in a classroom without room for movement until they are 18 years old. 

There are many people who go through the school system, live life along the well trodden path, and end up miserable and trapped in a job they don't want to do. Of course education is important, and I want my kids to have every opportunity, but there is life to be lived outside institutions. 

[DeanoL]

Well yes, that's why there are 13 weeks of school holidays, plus weekends.

[acidstorm523]

Yes indeed, but life does not always fit within government regulated times. 

[dizzymoo]

Education does not just happen in school, and it's about all kinds of enriching experiences, not just results which can be measured and have numerical values assigned.

[DeanoL]

Yes indeed, but life does not always fit within government regulated times. 

That wasn't your argument though. You said you wanted your kids to have amazing experiences. Most of those can still be done in any of the 13 weeks of holidays. It might be less convenient, or more expensive, sure. But you're not being prevented from having them.

Glastonbury is one of those things that you can't do at a different time. But there are 100s of other festivals that do happen during the holidays, many of which are similar, if not on the same scale.

[acidstorm523]

That wasn't your argument though. You said you wanted your kids to have amazing experiences. Most of those can still be done in any of the 13 weeks of holidays. It might be less convenient, or more expensive, sure. But you're not being prevented from having them.

Glastonbury is one of those things that you can't do at a different time. But there are 100s of other festivals that do happen during the holidays, many of which are similar, if not on the same scale.

 

sure, there are lots of threads to my argument to be fair. I would not personally take my kids out to go on a package holiday. Glastonbury is one thing I won't be moved on. I have been going long before I had kids, and I think it's one of the best things I can share with them. Other festivals are not Glastonbury, where I meet up with old friends who are much like family, who all come together there. 

 

i also believe they should be free to have time out for family occasions, or anything really that the parents deem important and cannot be time shifted.  

 

And just to say, all 3 of my kids have 100% attendance this term. I do understand the value of school, but I reiterate, it's not a prison !

Edited October 23, 2015 by acidpod23

[acidstorm523]

Your quote got lost there somewhere tonyblair! But in reply I would say...

I am quite amazed sometimes as to how people accept conformity, and allow themselves to be told how to live. It's like the fight for human rights has gone out of people in my own lifetime. This government really has a strong grip, and has moved so far in preventing opposition. 

I wouldn't advocate anarchy..that wouldn't work, but we need a more liberal society, tolerant of different approaches. 

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by acidpod23

[sheffieldlady]

I don't have kids, but I have several friends who are teachers and parents. Most of them have no problem with parents taking children out of school. One recently became the assistant head at a primary school, and having heard the challenges faced from head teachers, it certainly isn't a job that many could do!

Not everything you learn in life is done at school. Surely the whole reason to be so strict is to reduce truancy. Criminalising parents creates a bad atmosphere between the families and the school, undermines the authority of the head and removes the rights of parents to do what is best for their family. It also encourages dishonesty.

The reward for parents who comply - who book holidays during the government-prescribed date to be fleeced by holiday companies. Even if you choose to stay in Britain hotel companies also charge stupid amounts.

Parents face no sanction for leaving their child unvaccinated and at risk of serious ill health (and missed school!) from preventable diseases. 

Education is a joint process between schools and parents. And, parents do know what is best fo their children. 

[acidstorm523]

how wonderful of life, to give us one quarter of our time to us! And the other 3 quarters we hand our kids over to authority for them to do whatever they deem to be the right thing.

I think life is more than that

 

exactly, it's crazy, and I don't understand how others are so accepting!! 

Not wishing to be too disrespectful, but MPs and teachers are also just people, and I don't think all of them are more intelligent than me, nor could make better decisions for my children then I can - and will !

[Gnomicide]

I know someone who, as part of her job, has to chase up why children are not in school. Some of the stuff she tells you is pretty shocking, many are the kids of parents who clearly can't be arsed going through the effort of getting them up for school in the morning because they'd rather have a lie in. They never pay any fines anyway because they can't afford to.

It's clear something needs to be done about these parents but, as usual, the measures introduced to tackile the problem hits everyone. With Glastonbury taking place at the end of June, it's a time when the exams are over and kids are often doing very little of value anyway.

Bearded Theory have tackled the problem by drawing up a festival school day, when they cover stuff from the curriculum. Parents can print off details, take it to the school and show that the event will be educationaly beneficial.  

[gorfield]

I intend to use this next year when my kid starts school..

 

http://kidzfield.com/glastonbury-the-class-room/

 

god forbid she might miss a finger painting lessons and see some of the biggest bands on the planet..

 

if it doesnt work I will pay the fine.

 

There are loads of kids at glastonbury though so people must get away with it.

[Charm]

Clearly these rules supposed to be for parents who just aren't sending their kids to school, not for parents who want to take their kids out of school to have enriching life experiences. But as usual a small group of box ticking idiots who want to be important start spoiling it for normal people, fortunately not all schools are enforcing this silly policy and are behaving like regular human beings. 
Charm x

[gorfield]

I have already asked about this and the school i intend to send my kid to said that you cant have 10 unathorised abscences.. i asked if taking her to glastonbury would be unauthorised.. they said it would be classed as that but if you inform them before hand it may not be a problem.. she said they are looking for kids with patterns of non attendance really so they can help them as they probably have opther issues at home.

 

 

[acidstorm523]

I have always been honest with the school, but I have also called them in sick after telling the school that was what I was doing. It gave them a "let out" on reporting me, and as their attendance was good, the LA was not looking at them. That way the school stats remained good, and my kids could happily go in with tales of Glastonbury and didn't have to lie.

this year they are all at secondary, so I will be upfront and see what happens. We will be going in any case!

[efcfanwirral]

Without wishing  to sound like I live in la la land. Is there not a wider issue? The way we live in this country, which is lucky and wonderful in the world without doubt, is not the only way to live this life. In my opinion ( obv) , we have one glorious life on this planet, and there is a whole lot to experience. To say that parents are inconsiderate to teachers if they take their kids out... Well, it's just one part of it. But these are also our children's lives, one offs, and I want them to have amazing experiences, not be trapped in a classroom without room for movement until they are 18 years old. 

There are many people who go through the school system, live life along the well trodden path, and end up miserable and trapped in a job they don't want to do. Of course education is important, and I want my kids to have every opportunity, but there is life to be lived outside institutions. 

Totally with you but the wider issue is that our entire Western system is about making profit for the corporations and those who own them, until that changes (which will NEVER be allowed, they'll take us to war before that happens) then things like experiences don't matter to the system, as it doesn't give profit. Glastonbury is actually more likely to DAMAGE what people go to school for precisely by opening their minds beyond that well trodden path. I'm not surprised they're going after that sort of thing. 

[DeanoL]

how wonderful of life, to give us one quarter of our time to us! And the other 3 quarters we hand our kids over to authority for them to do whatever they deem to be the right thing.

And evenings and weekends.

Clearly these rules supposed to be for parents who just aren't sending their kids to school, not for parents who want to take their kids out of school to have enriching life experiences.

Not necessarily. That is the case at the moment, but if every parent wanted to take their kids out of school for life-enriching experiences at different times, it'd create the same problem.

I do kind of have more sympathy for the parents who don't give a crap, because as far as I'm concerned, yes, parents should be able to do what they want with their own kids. But if you take your kids out of school, that's then your problem. You don't get to:

1) have teachers make special considerations for your kid, or meet with you and run through what he'll be missing out on so he can catch up or;

2) complain if he gets stuck or confused or struggles as a result of it.

You've got every right to do what you want with your kid, but if you break the school rules, you don't have any right to expect special treatment from the teachers to help you out.

[acidstorm523]

[acidstorm523]

Oh this new site is making replying hard! Totally agree efcfan! 

 

I dont ask ask any special favours from teachers - not much goes in at school during Glastonbury, most of the serious work is done. If they were to miss something important, I would find out from a friend with kids in the same class, and help my kids catch up. 

Deanol, do you always follow the rules set by others in life? 

[sheffieldlady]

During primary school I had holidays during term time, all where 2 - 3 weeks long, one was spent driving around the USA with my aunt and uncle and the other was a holiday with my grandparents. I can assure you this didn't hold me back in my performance at school, I went on, got Alevels and a degree and now I'm working for someone else to get rich. Success! What did hold me back was poor teaching and them not spotting that I was dyslexic sooner. 

So long as you're not taking kids out of school during exam time (and I'm talking about GCSEs and Alevels) then I doubt you will do much damage to your child's education if any. 

Spending time as a family is just as important as education. You're not in education forever, you don't live forever and you're not a child forever. Going to school is important, but making sure children have good memories of holidays with their parents is something they will value far more.

If following the system was so important - then people wouldn't choose to home school their children. There is no right way to bring up children - everyone is finding their way along in parenting and life. If it was up to me, I wouldn't have any issue with term time holidays, so long as parents didn't do it all the time, which they don't!