Pass out

[DeadAmos]

The amount of screwed up pass outs we got one year nearly made this system impossible to manage. Id have hoped for an easier system by now tbh but hey ho. They definately need to consolidate on the variety of different ticket types.

 

 

Gotta say +1 on the diffrent ticket types

[Woffy]

Zip-up pockets are a winner.

[Pinhead]

There's easy, and then there's secure.

Particularly because of Glastonbury's history, it needs to be secure.

Yeah though its not especially secure at the moment tbh. For one, pass outs were being 'traded' one year outside the ground. Even wristbands were being dismantled, swapped, and then put back on someone else at one point. They could have a terminal set up at gates instead for example to register people out and back in by ticket code, but I accept that this is a bit more expensive.

[marke1]

Here's what you do:

 

1) Bring the stars out

2) Bring the women and the cars and the cards out

3) Have a toast, a celebration

4) Get a glass out

5) Repeat until desired effect has been achieved

love it

[STEVEYBOY]

I also lost my pass out in 2013. Worse thing was this was on the Wednesday when going to the car to do a second trip with camping gear. The que and process was long and took over an hour. There were people there for all sorts of reasons. Lost tickets, brought tickets from mates and refused entry and lost pass outs. Guaranteed I will never loose another pass out ticket, especialy as we are campervaning it this year and need a pass everytime we go to the campervan  

[Wooderson]

Stick it in your guardian schedule/line-up/lanyard thingy that the hip kids wear round their necks.

[eFestivals]

They could have a terminal set up at gates instead for example to register people out and back in by ticket code, but I accept that this is a bit more expensive.

and fallable.

 

Do you want to be one of the tens of thousands stood at the gates unable to enter because the system has gone down?

[Pinhead]

Understood. Making systems resilient is one of the things I do for a living though. Invest enough and systems can be very reliable indeed, though I accept this comes at an associated expense. No system is infallible, but many systems can be made acceptably available. Sloppy operators like the ones at RBS only have themselves and no doubt a confusion of outsourcing and reduced investment plans to blame.

[The Nal]

Put it in a tied condom and stick it up your arse

[eFestivals]

Understood. Making systems resilient is one of the things I do for a living though. Invest enough and systems can be very reliable indeed, though I accept this comes at an associated expense. No system is infallible, but many systems can be made acceptably available. Sloppy operators like the ones at RBS only have themselves and no doubt a confusion of outsourcing and reduced investment plans to blame.

 

It's not necessarily 'sloppy' when there's a problem at a (say) a bank. It's an inevitability - what can fail will fail.

 

For many things the impact of failure can be well-managed in some manner, thru fall back procedures or simply waiting till it's fixed.

 

When it's a crowd control issue everything is much more unpredictable.

[Pinhead]

My angle is to reduce that inevitability, which I fully agree with and appreciate, to a managed and calculable level of probability within a particular system. At a certain point, an operation, say a business, must accept and agree that the risk of failure in such a system has been reduced acceptably enough for it to enter service. See must go through a similar exercise each year with their ticketing system.

But as you say, I have not contributed anything in terms of how a failure could be handled from a crowd control perspective. I would think that an automated pass out system would be less vulnerable to crowd issues than an automated entry system though (numbers would normally be small enough to be able to manage a redirection to another gate in the event of a failure I would think). Perhaps just fall back to pass out tickets in that rare event of a full system failure?

[eFestivals]

(numbers would normally be small enough to be able to manage a redirection to another gate in the event of a failure I would think).

 

if the system has gone down at one gate, there's a very decent chance it will be down at all gates at the same time.

[FuzzyDunlop]

Put it in a tied condom and stick it up your arse

It's not necessarily 'sloppy' when there's a problem

The fact these 2 comments initally followed on from each other, has really made me laugh.

Edited June 19, 2015 by FuzzyDunlop

[Pinhead]

if the system has gone down at one gate, there's a very decent chance it will be down at all gates at the same time.

 

True.

 

Ah, but but then you make each system at each gate autonomous!

 

I get it though - ultimately there will be situations where a failure could occur. My contention is though that with the proper design, this could be minimised to an acceptable level enough to make such a system worth considering one day.

[eFestivals]

Ah, but but then you make each system at each gate autonomous!

 

can't be done tho, can it?

 

It's access control, therefore you need a central store of the access data - otherwise the same access 'code' can be used at two gates at the same time.

 

It would have to be done as a centralised system.

[Pinhead]

Yes, there would have to be a centralised component, a shared database, preferably off site. This could be in the cloud on exceptionally resilient hardware where the whole thing is operationally replicated several times over. Comms is via 3G handheld ticket scanner. More than one 3G base station on site for resiliency.

 

It does start to get expensive though I admit....

[eFestivals]

Yes, there would have to be a centralised component, a shared database, preferably off site. This could be in the cloud on exceptionally resilient hardware where the whole thing is operationally replicated several times over. Comms is via 3G handheld ticket scanner. More than one 3G base station on site for resiliency.

 

It does start to get expensive though I admit....

Oh, anything's possible ... except a meaningful guarantee that it will never fail.

[paulmuchmore]

I get that the point is to stop people passing on their tickets/wristbands, but it does seem excessive to me to need to have a wristband, your ticket, plus an extra bit of paper if you leave the gates. What's the point of the wristband if not to show you're allowed entry into the festival after your first entry once you've showed your ticket? And why require a pass out at all if there's a picture on the ticket? If the person on the gate is doing their job properly, the wrong person won't be let in?

 

And if you're going to have a system to identify someone who has been in and is returning, why not perhaps use those UV stamps they use for re-entry at theme parks? Reduces the risk of losing a pass.

 

At Isle of Wight they have a QR code on the clamp of the wristband that they use to scan you in and out. Of course, there's the risk of the system failing, but I haven't seen it cause any problems in the many years I've been attending.

[Pinhead]

Oh, anything's possible ... except a meaningful guarantee that it will never fail.

 

Absolutely. I could only guarantee that the probability of failure is low enough to consider it. I could never guarantee that it would never fail, no more than I can guarantee the Glasto weather.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Pinhead

[robin]

And why require a pass out at all if there's a picture on the ticket? If the person on the gate is doing their job properly, the wrong person won't be let in?

 

Because one person can walk out of the site with two tickets, but they will only be given one passout ticket. They cannot then hand the photo ticket over to someone else as they still need another passout ticket and wrist band.

[paulmuchmore]

Because one person can walk out of the site with two tickets, but they will only be given one passout ticket. They cannot then hand the photo ticket over to someone else as they still need another passout ticket and wrist band.

 

Ahh. I guess that makes sense. But why not just operate on wristbands like most other festivals? Solely to stop people leaving and squeezing their band off to a tout on the gate?

[philthy]

Ahh. I guess that makes sense. But why not just operate on wristbands like most other festivals? Solely to stop people leaving and squeezing their band off to a tout on the gate?

I imagine it's because there will be a lot of people who, once on site don't leave again until the Monday. So they could remove their wristband and give it and their ticket to someone to leave site and give to someone else, hence the added requirement of the pass out ticket.

Edited June 19, 2015 by philthy