Kanye west confirmed

[Matt - Ed Banger Records]

I think it's all a bit tit-for-tat, he basically looks to completely write off any of his musical accomplishments by saying he is a grandstanding arse, we all know he is a grandstanding arse, says some troubling things at times and has an ego the size of the moon - but seems lightly off to counter that by then completely discounting his music, and at the same time referencing Eminem as someone that has meaningful impact?

I think Kanye had every right to fire shots back basically.

[eFestivals]

23 minutes ago, Matt - Ed Banger Records said:

I think Kanye had every right to fire shots back basically.

I don't disagree because I feel everyone has the right to their say and their right to respond.

But what Kanye shot back was at least as flawed as anything Ezrin said - and probably much worse, really only confirming how Ezrin was on target in the first place.

[Matt - Ed Banger Records]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I don't disagree because I feel everyone has the right to their say and their right to respond.

But what Kanye shot back was at least as flawed as anything Ezrin said - and probably much worse, really only confirming how Ezrin was on target in the first place.

I guess it's the medium of the response in some respects, but Kanye did certainly come across an idiot in his response - all the media I have seen of it has framed it as 'Kanye West in Twitter meltdown towards Pink Floyd Producer' which has left all the context, and in most cases all of the juicy stuff that Ezrin says in his piece, completely out.

To be fair though, it certainly becomes more and more difficult with each passing day to even begin to defend Mr West, someone at the record label need to take his social media passwords off of him.

[The Nal]

24 minutes ago, Matt - Ed Banger Records said:

To be fair though, it certainly becomes more and more difficult with each passing day to even begin to defend Mr West, someone at the record label need to take his social media passwords off of him.

Hes indefensible. A world class bellend. In every way. The very worst representation of modern culture. A Daily Mail darling basically.

[Badlands]

His article loses all credibility as soon as he mentions Macklemore.

 

[deadpheasant]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Nope, Ezrin hits the spot with intelligence, even if you might not agree with it.

 

He says people won't be singing his songs in 20 years unlike MC Hammer?? Jesus Christ...

It's already been 12 years since College Dropout and those songs are not only massively relevant but very influential to hip hop. Artists like Kendrick Lamar, Frank Ocean, The Weeknd, Drake, Chance the Rapper, Future, Kid Cudi all came into prominence in the wake of Kanye's music and they all cite Kanye as a major influence. As much as he is seen as an egotistical asshole in the media, noone can deny the impact he's had on modern day hip hop.

The whole "review" is completely out of touch & only created to provoke a response from Kanye.

[eFestivals]

Just now, deadpheasant said:

He says people won't be singing his songs in 20 years unlike MC Hammer?? Jesus Christ...

everyone knows hammertime.

Now, i'm not pretending to be down with the kids - but nor is my 80 year old mother who also knows hammertime - and I can only think of one song of Kanye's off the top of my head and I certainly can't see myself making any passing reference to it or singing it in 20 years time.

So while the mention of MC Hammer is cringeingly embarrassing for Kanye, Ezrin was spot on and Kanye will have to suck it up.

[Badlands]

Ask your Mum what order she'd put these in for us Neil:

Reasonable Doubt

All Eyez On Me

Ready to Die

Please Hammer, Don't Hurt Em

[deadpheasant]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

everyone knows hammertime.

Now, i'm not pretending to be down with the kids - but nor is my 80 year old mother who also knows hammertime - and I can only think of one song of Kanye's off the top of my head and I certainly can't see myself making any passing reference to it or singing it in 20 years time.

So while the mention of MC Hammer is cringeingly embarrassing for Kanye, Ezrin was spot on and Kanye will have to suck it up.

The review is literally only a critique of Kanye's persona in the media and he relates that bad press to his music and says he's not relevant.

"His greatest achievements are in the form of  excessive behavior, egomaniacal tantrums and tasteless grandstanding"

21 grammys, 3 albums listed by Rolling Stone as the greatest of all time, 92 total awards and 369 nominations. Not to mention his numerous collaborations and number one singles/albums.

Just because he comes across as an egotistical asshole in the newspaper because of stuff he posts on twitter, doesn't make him less of a cultural icon. The 15 minutes of fame comment is ridiculous, year after year since College Dropout in 2004 Kanye has become more and more relevant working with more up and coming artists.

He critiques Kanye's album and he hasn't even listened to it! 

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, Badlands said:

Ask your Mum what order she'd put these in for us Neil:

Reasonable Doubt

All Eyez On Me

Ready to Die

Please Hammer, Don't Hurt Em

she wouldn't, cos Kanye is niche and doesn't penetrate the mainstream and MC Hammer isn't and did.

Which is what Ezrin was alluding to, I presume.

 

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, deadpheasant said:

The review is literally only a critique of Kanye's persona in the media and he relates that bad press to his music and says he's not relevant.

"His greatest achievements are in the form of  excessive behavior, egomaniacal tantrums and tasteless grandstanding"

 

Kanye's "persona in the media" is mostly Kanye's own words posted by Kanye on twatter. To try and deflect that as media lies about Kanye is more than a bit ridiculous.

And what do people talk about with Kanye? His music, or how he's made a twat of himself again?

 

1 minute ago, deadpheasant said:

21 grammys, 3 albums listed by Rolling Stone as the greatest of all time, 92 total awards and 369 nominations. Not to mention his numerous collaborations and number one singles/albums.

Care to point out where anyone is saying Kanye isn't hugely popular with some?

Unless you do, you've just posted something meaningless.

 

1 minute ago, deadpheasant said:

Just because he comes across as an egotistical asshole in the newspaper because of stuff he posts on twitter, doesn't make him less of a cultural icon.

True.

What makes anyone a cultural icon or not is the penetration they achieve with their cultural output.

It's certainly the case that Kanye has done better than most with that, but it's also true that an amount of that has been achieved by him being a twat on twatter rather than letting his music alone do the talking.

 

1 minute ago, deadpheasant said:

The 15 minutes of fame comment is ridiculous, year after year since College Dropout in 2004 Kanye has become more and more relevant working with more up and coming artists.

It depends what you take that "15 minutes of fame" thing to mean.

Because of the inclusion of the MC Hammer mention, I'm taking it as not being about any time span he's around for, but about the timelessness (or not) of his songs - in the way that everyone still knows hammertime.

11 minutes ago, deadpheasant said:

He critiques Kanye's album and he hasn't even listened to it! 

Hmmm, are you sure?

I don't know either way, but I do know of plenty of people who get to hear albums sometimes as much as year before release. Ezrin would be a part of a group of people who would get early access if anyone at all is getting early access.

Tho having just re-read Ezrin's rant, he doesn't critique the album at all. He makes a comment about someone else's comment about it.

 

[gluther]

Kanye is niche and doesn't penetrate the mainstream

Hot Chip are bigger than LCD Soundsystem

You're on top form lately, Neil 

[Mash011]

I mean Kanye's certainly not beyond criticism but I don't think the measure of an artist is their ability to come up with a goofy catchprase that can be repeated ad nauseam.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, gluther said:

Kanye is niche and doesn't penetrate the mainstream

After I'd posted that I immediately regretted my choice of words. I knew it would come back on me. Ho-hum.

I obviously don't mean it as literally as that, because in context it was part of a comparison against hammertime.

The point is, hammertime was erverywhere, and there's almost no one that doesn't know it. The same is not true with any of Kanye's songs.

 

 

 

 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, Mash011 said:

I mean Kanye's certainly not beyond criticism but I don't think the measure of an artist is their ability to come up with a goofy catchprase that can be repeated ad nauseam.

True.

The measure of an artist is how much their art talks.

And Kanye's art talks far less than Kanye does. His art is overshadowed by his twattery.

Ultimately what Ezrin is saying is that he'd like (just) Kanye's art to do the talking.

[ghostdancer1]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

everyone knows hammertime.

Now, i'm not pretending to be down with the kids - but nor is my 80 year old mother who also knows hammertime - and I can only think of one song of Kanye's off the top of my head and I certainly can't see myself making any passing reference to it or singing it in 20 years time.

So while the mention of MC Hammer is cringeingly embarrassing for Kanye, Ezrin was spot on and Kanye will have to suck it up.

given that you don't even know the name of the song, I doubt that.

everyone who was of a certain age in 1990 might be aware of it, i'm sure there are plenty born from the late 80s onwards who have no clue about it, but who know Kanye songs.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, ghostdancer1 said:

given that you don't even know the name of the song, I doubt that.

everyone who was of a certain age in 1990 might be aware of it, i'm sure there are plenty born from the late 80s onwards who have no clue about it, but who know Kanye songs.

I'm sure there are.

But none of those Kanye songs have penetrated in the same way, all the same.

-----

Care to tell me what would be so bad about Kanye with none of the surrounding bollocks? That's all Ezrin is really saying in the end. That he'd like the music without the accompanying bollocks.

it's a view I can sympathise with as It's something I've thought with other acts in the past, but I don't personally give a shit either way with Kanye because I'm listening to neither parts.

[GlastoSimon]

His idiocy does overshadow his art a lot of the time. As someone who decided to give Kanye a go (at least the new stuff), you start to warm to him and think 'I'll give the older stuff a go too.'

Then he comes out with nonsense in the media. The divisive ramblings about 'black music' and how white people couldn't judge it and all the rest of it the other week for example. Most of his rants you can brush off, but I don't even know where to begin with the shite he was spouting. It shouldn't put you off of the art but it almost does, I can see why some wouldn't even give him the time of day.

[Amy Lawn]

I Know A Song That'll Get On Your Nerves is more relevant than The Rolling Stones, they just haven't penetrated the mainstream in the same way.

[defrio29]

18 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Nope, Ezrin hits the spot with intelligence, even if you might not agree with it.

 

I'm sorry but you're out of touch, Neil.

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, defrio29 said:

I'm sorry but you're out of touch, Neil.

How am I out of touch?

Are you saying that Kanye's twattery doesn't often overshadow his musical output, and that he doesn't talk himself up?

If we go back 15 years, I was saying that Oasis talked themselves up (and I've said the same about Kasabian too), and people were poopoo-ing that back then ... and yet today I reckon many more people can see it.

Kanye's big and popular, and he'd be much the same without the sideshow. Why do we need the sideshow?

[eFestivals]

PS: I'm not someone who was saying a year ago that Kanye didn't deserve to headline Glasto. He's clearly big enough and popular enough.

But being big and popular doesn't necessarily put someone into the sort of 'classic' status where everyone knows the creative output - and Kanye's not there. He's trying to talk himself there, but that's not causing his music to bridge that penetration gap, it's actually lessening it.

[The Nal]

27 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Kanye's big and popular, and he'd be much the same without the sideshow. Why do we need the sideshow?

I disagree. Hes like Donald Trump. Just talks enough shit and people believe it. But he doesn't have a whole lot to back it up with. An awful gig last year at the festival, lyrics that 12 year olds copy and paste into their facebook status, a celebrity fame chasing whore, the worst sort of attention seeker. Theres nothing redeeming about the man. 

If someone shouts "I'm the best" loud enough, some people will buy it.

Its not a sideshow either. The music is the sideshow. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, The Nal said:

I disagree. Hes like Donald Trump. Just talks enough shit and people believe it. But he doesn't have a whole lot to back it up with.

I agree with the first part, but not the second to a full extent. He's a talented guy, even if his talent isn't as big as he wants to believe.

He only got to a point in the first place via his talent, where he could then use his gob to elevate himself further. His talent isn't an irrelevance in this. He's far more than X-Factor wannabe, where fame has been falsely created by something other than his own creative efforts.

But yes, he's turning himself into a Donald, where any worthwhile achievements of the past are becoming overshadowed by parody.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

1 hour ago, The Nal said:

I disagree. Hes like Donald Trump. Just talks enough shit and people believe it. But he doesn't have a whole lot to back it up with. An awful gig last year at the festival, lyrics that 12 year olds copy and paste into their facebook status, a celebrity fame chasing whore, the worst sort of attention seeker. Theres nothing redeeming about the man. 

If someone shouts "I'm the best" loud enough, some people will buy it.

Its not a sideshow either. The music is the sideshow. 

Just because you don't want something to be true, doesn't mean you can ignore the facts as you have so obviously done. Whatever your personal view of his music, he's made at least three records which are massively critically acclaimed, have sold in large numbers and are viewed as genre defining and to a certain extent, genre creating.

The fact that you believe his music is him shouting "I'm the best" suggests you haven't listened to much of it at all.

Edited February 26, 2016 by thesecretingredientiscrime