Football 2014/15

[lharris92]

[metallimuse]

Its 3 years since Utd beat Arsenal 8-2 with the team of...

De Gea,Smalling,Jones,Evans,Evra,Nani,Cleverley,Anderson,Young, Rooney,Wellbeck.

Arsenal that bad or Fergie a genius?

[Andre91]

Arsenal were absolutely woeful that day.

[Gucci Piggy]

From what I remember the Arsenal lineup that day was even more abysmal. Didn't see it, though; I was at Leeds Fest.

[Wooderson]

Its 3 years since Utd beat Arsenal 8-2 with the team of...

De Gea,Smalling,Jones,Evans,Evra,Nani,Cleverley,Anderson,Young, Rooney,Wellbeck.

Arsenal that bad or Fergie a genius?

In any event that is a genuine eye opener.

[adam1234]

I've been saying for years that Shawcross needs to be in the England team, I think he's a brilliant CB. It's mind boggling why he doesn't get picked. Unless it's because he plays for Stoke...

I'm joking. But seriously, Roy needs to start including him, especially over Smalling and Jones.

You may laugh but that is the reason he doesn't get picked. Along with the Ramsey tackle a few seasons ago.

[The Nal]

Its 3 years since Utd beat Arsenal 8-2 with the team of...

De Gea,Smalling,Jones,Evans,Evra,Nani,Cleverley,Anderson,Young, Rooney,Wellbeck.

Arsenal that bad or Fergie a genius?

Ferguson a genius and the greatest ever by a staggering margin.

[pink_triangle]

Ferguson a genius and the greatest ever by a staggering margin.

Greatest manager of the premiership era probably, difficult to compare with different eras when a club could be promoted to the top league and contend to win it the next season. Also there's an argument that gaining success at more than 1 top club, is more difficult than staying at 1 place.

[eFestivals]

Ferguson a genius and the greatest ever by a staggering margin.

Not really true. Shanks took Liverpool from lower, and took them higher.

What's making fergie look so fantastic is how Utd have fallen afterwards. Liverpool didn't fall after Shanks - which surely again makes what Shanks did the better achievement.

Having said all that, I'm not trying to knock fergie. They way Utd have fallen demonstrates just how fantastic a job he was doing with those players.

Edited August 29, 2014 by eFestivals

[Wooderson]

Fergie was a titan. Difficult to compare him to Shanks/Paisley. If he'd won more in Europe the debate wouldn't exist however. Think the man himself admitted they under performed given domestic dominance.

[The Nal]

Fergie was a titan. Difficult to compare him to Shanks/Paisley. If he'd won more in Europe the debate wouldn't exist however. Think the man himself admitted they under performed given domestic dominance.

They did but lost two finals to possibly the best club team ever. Barca. If it wasn't for that I reckon Utd would have at least another one.

Either way, if not the greatest hes right up there. What Shankly did was incredible too obviously.

But beating Arsenal 8-2 with that team. Unreal. LVG has big shoes to fill. Looking back on it, Moyes never had a hope did he?!

Edited August 29, 2014 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

Difficult to compare him to Shanks/Paisley.

Paisley is a giant because of what he won, but I think there's a big difference in keeping a team at the top as he did to taking a team to the top as Shanks & Fergie did.

[dentalplan]

Valencia in for Cleverley now.

[pink_triangle]

I don't see how Fergie and Shankley can be compared. The former was in an era that saw an influx of foreign players and an increase in depth in the European cup. The latter a more competitive, largely British league with an easier route to European cup glory. Both did the best they could in the era they were in.

Also how can you compare Fergie to someone like Ancelotti who has won domestic and European championships in different European nations. In my view Fergie couldn't have had the same success in another major European country while Ancelotti couldn't have had the staying power Fergie did. They both have their individual skills which were suited to the situation they were in. Then you have Del Bosque who has won everything at both domestic and international level, but could he have done it without the best players?

[eFestivals]

I don't see how Fergie and Shankley can be compared. The former was in an era that saw an influx of foreign players and an increase in depth in the European cup. The latter a more competitive, largely British league with an easier route to European cup glory. Both did the best they could in the era they were in.

I certainly agree that direct comparisons are impossible.

Tho I can't see how you can say it's easier to win a knock-out cup than it is the non-knockout competition of the CL. There's no second chances with a knock-out ... and if knock-outs are easier, how come the top teams don't win the FA Cup more-so than they do the league? It's not like they're not trying.

At the end of the day, you can only beat the teams who are in front of you and via the rules that exist for that competition.

And that's all we have for weighing up the merits of various managers at different times. There's no definitely right answer for who was the best.

[pink_triangle]

I certainly agree that direct comparisons are impossible.

Tho I can't see how you can say it's easier to win a knock-out cup than it is the non-knockout competition of the CL. There's no second chances with a knock-out ... and if knock-outs are easier, how come the top teams don't win the FA Cup more-so than they do the league? It's not like they're not trying.

At the end of the day, you can only beat the teams who are in front of you and via the rules that exist for that competition.

And that's all we have for weighing up the merits of various managers at different times. There's no definitely right answer for who was the best.

It's not the format, more the increase in the clubs from the stronger nations. Also the best players are now more concentrated between a few clubs, which could be an advantage or disadvantage depending if your one of those clubs!

[Kowalski]

Football is not just about England.

Fergie took a provincal Scottish club to European glory in 1983 and won several domestic league and cup trophies using home grown players, breaking the Old Firm stranglehold.

Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979-80, 1983-84, 1984-85.
Scottish Cup (4): 1981-82, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1985-86.
Scottish League Cup (1): 1985-86.
European Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1982-83.
European Super Cup (1): 1983.

That, together with his achievements at Man U, make him the greatest manager ever. No doubt about it at all.

[pink_triangle]

Football is not just about England.

Fergie took a provincal Scottish club to European glory in 1983 and won several domestic league and cup trophies using home grown players, breaking the Old Firm stranglehold.

Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979-80, 1983-84, 1984-85.

Scottish Cup (4): 1981-82, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1985-86.

Scottish League Cup (1): 1985-86.

European Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1982-83.

European Super Cup (1): 1983.

That, together with his achievements at Man U, make him the greatest manager ever. No doubt about it at all.

Although the response to that would be football is not all about Britain, other managers have had success in far more culturally diverse areas. While what fergie did at Aberdeen was impressive, people wrongly in my opinion try to use it in context with modern day football. The gap between big and small has grown to the extent that getting Aberdeen out of the groups in 2014 would be a comparible achievement to winning the cwc in the 80s.

[Kowalski]

Although the response to that would be football is not all about Britain, other managers have had success in far more culturally diverse areas. While what fergie did at Aberdeen was impressive, people wrongly in my opinion try to use it in context with modern day football. The gap between big and small has grown to the extent that getting Aberdeen out of the groups in 2014 would be a comparible achievement to winning the cwc in the 80s.

Quite possibly but we did have to beat very strong Bayern Munich and Real Madrid teams to win the CWC. It was definitely one of Fergie's greatest achievements.

[pink_triangle]

Quite possibly but we did have to beat very strong Bayern Munich and Real Madrid teams to win the CWC. It was definitely one of Fergie's greatest achievements.

Although the gap between those sides was nowhere near then, what it is today. The money in the game has made those achievements impossible in the modern era, Wrexham nearly reached the semis in the late 70s from the lower leagues. The fact this is not possible in 2014 is due to how football has changed, not a change in the quality of managers.

[eFestivals]

Although the gap between those sides was nowhere near then, what it is today. The money in the game has made those achievements impossible in the modern era, Wrexham nearly reached the semis in the late 70s from the lower leagues. The fact this is not possible in 2014 is due to how football has changed, not a change in the quality of managers.

Nah, the reason it's not possible now is because of how the UEFA rules for Welsh clubs have changed.

[The Nal]

Although the gap between those sides was nowhere near then, what it is today. The money in the game has made those achievements impossible in the modern era, Wrexham nearly reached the semis in the late 70s from the lower leagues. The fact this is not possible in 2014 is due to how football has changed, not a change in the quality of managers.

[pink_triangle]

There's a difference between winning a one off league match with half your first team and advancing in a European tournament. Even in knockout football it's harder for the small team to win, when the big team takes it completely seriously. 1992 I was there to see Wrexham beat champions arsenal frirst team in the fa cup. Would Torquay stand a chance of beating man city first team in 2014. I doubt it.

[The Nal]

There's a difference between winning a one off league match with half your first team and advancing in a European tournament. Even in knockout football it's harder for the small team to win, when the big team takes it completely seriously. 1992 I was there to see Wrexham beat champions arsenal frirst team in the fa cup. Would Torquay stand a chance of beating man city first team in 2014. I doubt it.

No you're right of course. Brian Cloughs achievements with Forest for example!?

[TheGayTent]

West Ham going for a song?