WWE

[When Jokers Attack]

9 hours ago, CHRLY said:

Was this the Ricochet one? (I'm not too educated on the Japanese things).

He's a great talent, for sure. 

No this was the final of the tournament. Will Ospreay v Taguchi (who has been booked like Santino Marella for 2 years but man can he go when serious). The Ricochet match was only a block match, the tournament lasted for 12 events and there was 2 blocks of 8 wrestlers, the two winners of the blocks faced in the final today. I'll post the match in here when/if It pops up on YouTube on Dailymotion because it really was another classic and needs to be seen.

7 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Interestingly how it seems to have split opinion between those who love it and those who don't. Out of interest what was it that made it incredible in your view?

To me it was acrobatics with a pinfall in the end. I felt both were only interested in the pop and the result didn't matter. I agree with stone colds view that you would hire both guys as there's definitely a way of harnessing that athletic ability.

Whatever you think of the match, they have generated discussion and are both better known now than they were before, therefore job done.

Well for the start it was the best of super juniors tournament which has all the best high flying wrestlers in it, so a lot of matches like this are expected. Fast paced with lots of spots, similar to the WCW cruiserweights. NJPW have the G1 Climax tournament coming up next month, which follows the same format but with heavyweights in it, it's incredible every year.

 I really don't see the problem, Ricochet (he is also Prince Puma in Lucha Underground) has been known as the best high flyer in the world for the 3-4 years, nobody he has ever faced has been on his level in terms of athleticism. Ospreay was influenced by him and I read/heard  somewhere Ricochet played a big part in Ospreay wanting to become a wrestler in the first place. So the two guys finally face off in this tournament and the story of the match it was simply who can out do the other with the most over the top moves, who is the real high flying king?  Wrestling can be anything, there shouldn't be barriers on what is and what isn't wrestling. I love all styles.

6 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I agree, I'm all for more variety in wrestling. Some bits you like and some you don't, my main concern with how the business is moving is things becoming too samey, rather than the other way around. If a match can generate discussion then the match has done it's job. I think both could do a job in wwe with some guidance from some veterans, although Ospreay would need to cut out the bad language!

Regarding my own tastes while the attitude era was my peak time. It was early 90s wcw that got me hooked and mainly the mid card of Austin, rude, steamboat, Rhodes, Pillman, Steiners  and that was very much work based rather than soap opera based, but they didn't need to do a hundred spots in a match to have a good match. Maybe they would be considered boring today, but to me it was very believable and the results mattered.

When I watch the Ospreay v Riccochet match, I don't see it as a technical match. I see it more as fast paced spotfest like the luchadores did in 96 wcw. To me selling and psychology are vital parts of what makes a technical wrestler, but then again maybe what people referred to as a technician in 1996 is different to 2016.

 

I don't want any of these guys in WWE. They are both doing fine in NJPW and on the indies. they wouldn't get to perform properly in WWE, Ricochet is on their radar and he was rumoured to be going this Summer butnot happening. I think he will end up there eventually though.Most foreign wrestlers swear in Japan, Gallows, Anderson and AJ used to do it over there as well. No idea why, different culture I guess.

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by When Jokers Attack

[pink_triangle]

4 hours ago, When Jokers Attack said:

 

Well for the start it was the best of super juniors tournament which has all the best high flying wrestlers in it, so a lot of matches like this are expected. Fast paced with lots of spots, similar to the WCW cruiserweights. NJPW have the G1 Climax tournament coming up next month, which follows the same format but with heavyweights in it, it's incredible every year.

 I really don't see the problem, Ricochet (he is also Prince Puma in Lucha Underground) has been known as the best high flyer in the world for the 3-4 years, nobody he has ever faced has been on his level in terms of athleticism. Ospreay was influenced by him and I read/heard  somewhere Ricochet played a big part in Ospreay wanting to become a wrestler in the first place. So the two guys finally face off in this tournament and the story of the match it was simply who can out do the other with the most over the top moves, who is the real high flying king?  Wrestling can be anything, there shouldn't be barriers on what is and what isn't wrestling. I love all styles.

 

I think it's a combination of culture and personal taste. I enjoyed some of the cruiserweight matches in WCW, but tended to prefer it when there was a high flyer against someone like as Malenko, to offer some contrast. I can enjoy different styles, but the choreography would need to be dialled down for me to get into that style.

4 hours ago, When Jokers Attack said:

I don't want any of these guys in WWE. They are both doing fine in NJPW and on the indies. they wouldn't get to perform properly in WWE, Ricochet is on their radar and he was rumoured to be going this Summer butnot happening. I think he will end up there eventually though.Most foreign wrestlers swear in Japan, Gallows, Anderson and AJ used to do it over there as well. No idea why, different culture I guess.

 

I guess as always it wil come down to money and what wwe are willing to put on the table. Interesting about the swearing, I started to find it annoying, but makes sense if there is a reason.

[Uncle Liam]

The reality is though that most people started wrestlng- at least in the US and Europe- because they wanted to be like their favourite WWF 'superstar'. Rightly or wrongly, it's where most people ultimately want to end up. 

On the other hand, you end up like Steen or Danielson, or Nakamura, where you've done it all on the indie circuit, and from there, there's only one place to go. 

[When Jokers Attack]

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I think it's a combination of culture and personal taste. I enjoyed some of the cruiserweight matches in WCW, but tended to prefer it when there was a high flyer against someone like as Malenko, to offer some contrast. I can enjoy different styles, but the choreography would need to be dialled down for me to get into that style.

I loved Malenko, one of the most underrated wrestlers of all time

You might like this match from the tournament, it's completely different from Ospreay/Ricochet.

Kyle O'Reilly vs Kushida from day 1 of the tournament. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4d0bf1_kushida-vs-kyle-o-reilly-njpw-bosj-2016-day-1_sport

[pink_triangle]

On 6/8/2016 at 3:11 PM, When Jokers Attack said:

I loved Malenko, one of the most underrated wrestlers of all time

You might like this match from the tournament, it's completely different from Ospreay/Ricochet.

Kyle O'Reilly vs Kushida from day 1 of the tournament. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4d0bf1_kushida-vs-kyle-o-reilly-njpw-bosj-2016-day-1_sport

Cheers, it's on my list to check out this weekend. Have just seen the NXT show which was enjoyable, but not as good as previous ones. I thought the tag title match was the best tag match I have seen this year though.

[When Jokers Attack]

Bobby Roode just made his in ring debut at Download.

[luckysalt]

Why oh why does Lawler keep going for these young girls half his age? Never works out for him.

[Andre91]

Word is that WWE are going to be reaching out to a lot of former talents to bulk the roster up for this brand split. It'll be interesting to see who they bring back. Finger crossed for Shelton Benjamin. 

[When Jokers Attack]

Tajiri is back for cruiserweight classic.

Edited June 18, 2016 by When Jokers Attack

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, Andre91 said:

Word is that WWE are going to be reaching out to a lot of former talents to bulk the roster up for this brand split. It'll be interesting to see who they bring back. Finger crossed for Shelton Benjamin. 

Good idea. While I am a fan of nxt, I think there should be more than one route to the main roster. I think its good sometimes for people on the roster to leave when stale, or nothing for them to do and then return later when fresher . 

I dont know who of these are still active, on decent terms with wwe and willing to return. I would be keen to see Shelton, Morrison, Carlito, Mr Kennedy, MVP, Masters and British Bulldog son have another run .

[Uncle Liam]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Good idea. While I am a fan of nxt, I think there should be more than one route to the main roster. I think its good sometimes for people on the roster to leave when stale, or nothing for them to do and then return later when fresher . 

I dont know who of these are still active, on decent terms with wwe and willing to return. I would be keen to see Shelton, Morrison, Carlito, Mr Kennedy, MVP, Masters and British Bulldog son have another run .

Chris Masters and Carlito were both incredibly rude to me at Wrestlecon so I'd quite like to see them banished to a lifetime of badly paying indie gigs.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Uncle Liam

[luckysalt]

Rollins winning the title tonight then? Sky bet have put him as the clear favourite over reigns. They clearly know the winners in advance after zack ryder at mania. 

[When Jokers Attack]

Brilliant show, the 3 big matches delivered.

Is Ambrose really going to be the guy or is this a short reign?

[jump]

On 06/18/16 at 9:43 AM, When Jokers Attack said:

Tajiri is back for cruiserweight classic.

Glad he's back, he use to be one of my favourites.

Apparently Kurt Angle is back too.

[luckysalt]

4 hours ago, When Jokers Attack said:

Brilliant show, the 3 big matches delivered.

Is Ambrose really going to be the guy or is this a short reign?

Rollins v Reigns, Reigns struggled to keep to Rolllins workrate I thought, was a good long match however but was nowhere near the quality of Rollins v Ambrose last year, Reigns is by FAR the weakest member of the shield.

Ambrose quick cash in is a shame I think, I like the tease of the cash in, and now we don't get that for a whole year again, but I guess it was done quick because the split is coming. 

Cena v AJ. What to say about this, Cena was so far behind AJ in the ring it was laughable, the action was disjointed, almost stopping all the time so Cena could set up his next spot, the thing about AJ is he's at his best when he can chain wrestle with a guy and the action free flows, continuous, this was anything but that. I suppose it was the best we could hope for, but these two don't work well together and Cena only losing via interference, AJ just can't get a big win, tell you what tho, AJ v Rollins down the line will be a great match.

The MITB was disappointing too, the end sequence especially seemed to drag on forever with the ladder bridges and nothing really happened there. Was ok, but nowhere near a great MITB ladder match.

The tag titles was a complete clusterfuck.

Rusev v Titus was completely forgettable, although Rusev has got himself in some shape! Defo a future world champ IMO, considering he's a big man, I hope they put Rusev and Owens on separate rosters so they can both do that role effectively. 

All in all I thought it was a very average show, but I was entertained and thats what matters, but no classics were on here. Best part was probably Owens promo with Jericho and ADR, Owens was golden there. He is a bonafide future multi time world champ superstar. 

If Rollins turns face down the line, Rollins v Owens is the best possible feud I could wish for.

[When Jokers Attack]

31 minutes ago, luckysalt said:

Cena v AJ. What to say about this, Cena was so far behind AJ in the ring it was laughable, the action was disjointed, almost stopping all the time so Cena could set up his next spot, the thing about AJ is he's at his best when he can chain wrestle with a guy and the action free flows, continuous, this was anything but that. I suppose it was the best we could hope for, but these two don't work well together and Cena only losing via interference, AJ just can't get a big win, tell you what tho, AJ v Rollins down the line will be a great match.

 

The whole story of the match was meant to show that Styles is better than Cena, remember Cena is also just coming off an injury. AJ didn't need the clean win, having Reigns and Cena lose clean on the same night would be silly. I rank it as the best wwe match of the year so far, crowd were right into it as well.

[pink_triangle]

12 hours ago, jump said:

Glad he's back, he use to be one of my favourites.

Apparently Kurt Angle is back too.

I agree Angle is a good pickup, they need a few more veterans in the locker room if they are splitting the roster. I imagine the younger guys could learn a lot from him

11 hours ago, luckysalt said:

Rollins v Reigns, Reigns struggled to keep to Rolllins workrate I thought, was a good long match however but was nowhere near the quality of Rollins v Ambrose last year, Reigns is by FAR the weakest member of the shield.

Ambrose quick cash in is a shame I think, I like the tease of the cash in, and now we don't get that for a whole year again, but I guess it was done quick because the split is coming. 

Cena v AJ. What to say about this, Cena was so far behind AJ in the ring it was laughable, the action was disjointed, almost stopping all the time so Cena could set up his next spot, the thing about AJ is he's at his best when he can chain wrestle with a guy and the action free flows, continuous, this was anything but that. I suppose it was the best we could hope for, but these two don't work well together and Cena only losing via interference, AJ just can't get a big win, tell you what tho, AJ v Rollins down the line will be a great match.

All in all I thought it was a very average show, but I was entertained and thats what matters, but no classics were on here. Best part was probably Owens promo with Jericho and ADR, Owens was golden there. He is a bonafide future multi time world champ superstar. 

 

I disagree with most of that

I agree Rollins V Reigns was a bit flat, however Rollins gets a very easy ride in general from internet fans.  The faults in the match were shared evenly in my view. Regins can have a great match with the right person eg Brock, AJ, Bryan, but Rollins isnt yet in the class of those names yet.  If your judging purely on how can do the best/most moves then Rollins is great, but he has very little idea about heel psychology, ending with a match where the heel is wrestling like a babyface and the face is unsure how to wrestle and it doesnt work. I dont believe Reigns is far weaker than the other members, to me all 3 have significant flaws which were hidden to some extent when they were combined in a group.  I loved the quick cash in because I hate the gimmick, it also makes sense for the Ambrose character.

As for Cena v AJ, I think Cena more than held his own and looked to me like he was trying very hard to get AJ over. In terms of consistency they may be the top 2 on the roster and it felt like a big match, I am keen to see the feud continue, so job done.

Owens is certainly more likely to get the world title with the roster splitting, but I cant see him winning more than once or twice.  I dont think he has the look for Vince to ever think he is "the man".

10 hours ago, When Jokers Attack said:

The whole story of the match was meant to show that Styles is better than Cena, remember Cena is also just coming off an injury. AJ didn't need the clean win, having Reigns and Cena lose clean on the same night would be silly. I rank it as the best wwe match of the year so far, crowd were right into it as well.

I completely agree.

[Andre91]

That pop and subsequent "Welcome back" chant that The Wyatt Family got on RAW last night was incredible. Bray has mileage as a face and I really want to see it... 

... but then they put them up against The New Day. 

[pink_triangle]

4 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

That pop and subsequent "Welcome back" chant that The Wyatt Family got on RAW last night was incredible. Bray has mileage as a face and I really want to see it... 

... but then they put them up against The New Day. 

Thats one feud I have zero interest in and cannot see how the 2 groups could have any chemistry at all.

[Andre91]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

Thats one feud I have zero interest in and cannot see how the 2 groups could have any chemistry at all.

Same. They should have been kept as far apart as possible. 

Also, Shield Triple Threat for Battleground. I can't believe they're wasting that match on a throwaway PPV. That match should have been kept for WrestleMania next year, or the very least SummerSlam. 

[CHRLY]

Reigns suspended for a month: http://www.wwe.com/article/roman-reigns-suspended

[SwedgeAntilles]

Suddenly him dropping the belt and losing clean on Sunday makes sense. 

[luckysalt]

20 hours ago, When Jokers Attack said:

The whole story of the match was meant to show that Styles is better than Cena, remember Cena is also just coming off an injury. AJ didn't need the clean win, having Reigns and Cena lose clean on the same night would be silly. I rank it as the best wwe match of the year so far, crowd were right into it as well.

AJ didn't need the clean win? Are you fucking mad?

He's looking INCREDIBLY weak so far in his WWE career, he's lost multiple times to Reigns, who just lost clean to Rollins, in Rollins first match back so, whats it being Cena's first match back in LESS time got to do with it?

The thing is before Cena was injured, he'd moved to midcard, he was US champ, he was no longer in the world title picture, he's held it 14 times and it looks like he's not going to be the guy to move to equal or move past Flair, im not sure if now HHH is pretty much running WWE anyone will ever do that, Cena doesn't need that title anymore anyway. But AJ needed a clean win, of course this like anything else is all opinion and we don't have to share the same view but AJ has lost to Jericho he's lost to Reigns and now he needs a tag team who lost earlier in the night to do one move and then get the pin. WWE AJ is just a completely different beast to TNA AJ anyway and his best days are behind him, I said this when he came in. He's never going to have a match in WWE as good as matches he had in TNA. So really my arguement is invalid, they may as well let him work a ploding match v Cena. I have to say I really dislike Cena's matches, I've always found them awful, from day one. He can have good matches, his fued with Owens was great. 

WWE is changing and to say Reigns and Cena losing clean on the same night is silly, why? Why protect Cena but not Reigns? Reigns needs protecting more, Cena has be here for 14 years, im sick of him being protected, his win over Lesnar when Lesnar smashed him to bits for 30 minutes was silly, protecting Cena in 2016 is silly. Sooner or later AJ will be made to look so weak he'll be a midcard wrestler and I don't think any of us want that to happen, look at Ziggler, is there ever a way back for him? 2 time world champion stuck in midcard hell. 

Anyway yeah, Reigns suspended. 

It won't stop his push, look at Orton, never stopped him.

[pink_triangle]

41 minutes ago, luckysalt said:

AJ didn't need the clean win? Are you fucking mad?

He's looking INCREDIBLY weak so far in his WWE career, he's lost multiple times to Reigns, who just lost clean to Rollins, in Rollins first match back so, whats it being Cena's first match back in LESS time got to do with it?

The thing is before Cena was injured, he'd moved to midcard, he was US champ, he was no longer in the world title picture, he's held it 14 times and it looks like he's not going to be the guy to move to equal or move past Flair, im not sure if now HHH is pretty much running WWE anyone will ever do that, Cena doesn't need that title anymore anyway. But AJ needed a clean win, of course this like anything else is all opinion and we don't have to share the same view 

I dont get the idea about heels needing clean wins, I want to see more cheating to win and not less.

I think AJ styles is having good matches and entertaining the fans. Maybe he doesn't have the same creative license he has had in the past, but I'm sure he is making good money to make up for it.

[luckysalt]