WWE

[Andre91]

The Miz gets a lot more stick than I think he warrants. He plays a heel better than almost anyone else and he is very good on the mic. I'm not a fan of his at all and never have been, but I really think he deserves more credit for his ability at being a legitimate heel than he gets. 

Anderson & Gallows debut was great. Loved that they're presenting them as 'outsiders' with the street clothes and coming through the crowd etc. as well as actually acknowledging that they are huge stars from elsewhere in the world. 

Bray Wyatt as a face also. Wow. That is something that has legs. 

[PettyDancer]

Loved Wrestlemania, it is amazing has something which is entertainment and not a sport can still draw you in to thinking it is real. How did Shane perform his fall safely?

[The Nal]

16 minutes ago, PettyDancer said:

Loved Wrestlemania, it is amazing has something which is entertainment and not a sport can still draw you in to thinking it is real. How did Shane perform his fall safely?

Crash pad under the table. And the table top seemed to be made of something a bit softer. Still a big bump though.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, Andre91 said:

The Miz gets a lot more stick than I think he warrants. He plays a heel better than almost anyone else and he is very good on the mic. I'm not a fan of his at all and never have been, but I really think he deserves more credit for his ability at being a legitimate heel than he gets. 

 

I agree and would also make the argument that if you have never been a fan of his, maybe its a sign that he is doing his job well.  I dont want to see a company of people like the Miz, but he has his place on the card.  Sometimes it seems to me like many of the hardcore fans would be happy with a homogenized product where you have 7 Zayn V Nakamura matches on every card.  I think WWE works best when there is variety.  There has to be room for techicians and loud characters, giants and midgets, comedy and serious.  The likes of roaddog and the godfather never had a 5* match, but got much more over than many of the more technically sound wrestler that have come since.

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, Uncle Liam said:

Yeah but when Miz is featured it's the heat of "oh for fucks sake not again". People are bored by it, and let's face it, his most memorable moment is the Angry Miz Girl. 

And the reality is the hardcore fan base is just the fan base now. They are the ones booing Reigns out of every building around the world, and Reigns definitely has X Pac heat. I actually think Reigns is done for, I think it's now too late to turn him heel. And unless they stick him with Heyman he'll fail at that as well. And even that might not work. 

While I agree thats the base, that doesnt mean that they shouldnt be trying to expand that base.  I think they only do that by building feuds that people care about.  I dont think that base ever expands if they are just going for entertaining matches between faces and heels with no heat.

I think theres plenty of time for Reigns to put things right.  I also think putting him with Heyman would be a huge mistake.  People seem to think Heyman is a magic bullet, but he has to be with the right person. They have put him with team Angle, Big Show and Ceasaro in the past and it didnt work.

[WS_Jack_III]

Haven't watched in a while again due to losing sky.

 

Anybody watch Whatculture's videos on the WWE, really highlight a lot of missteps the company have taken over the decades. 

Seems incredible there hasn't been more of a storm about certain things, I guess the "it was a different time" line would get used.

[Uncle Liam]

13 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I agree and would also make the argument that if you have never been a fan of his, maybe its a sign that he is doing his job well.  I dont want to see a company of people like the Miz, but he has his place on the card.  Sometimes it seems to me like many of the hardcore fans would be happy with a homogenized product where you have 7 Zayn V Nakamura matches on every card.  I think WWE works best when there is variety.  There has to be room for techicians and loud characters, giants and midgets, comedy and serious.  The likes of roaddog and the godfather never had a 5* match, but got much more over than many of the more technically sound wrestler that have come since.

 

Yeah but Godfather and Road Dogg were both entertaining. Both had the big entrance, they had the spots in the matches where everyone chanted along and that was great. (On a related note, I met Godfather at Axxess and he is the nicest guy you could imagine).  Plus, these guys had their run and it was over. We've had Miz as a single for is it eight years? It's seven years since Sheamus first won the title. 

AJ, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Joe, Nakamura etc are all better wrestlers, better characters and are fresh. The likes of Sheamus, Miz, even Ziggler and many others have been around for years doing boring, homogenised, corporate stuff and frankly it's time for something different.

 

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, Uncle Liam said:

 

Yeah but Godfather and Road Dogg were both entertaining. Both had the big entrance, they had the spots in the matches where everyone chanted along and that was great. (On a related note, I met Godfather at Axxess and he is the nicest guy you could imagine).  Plus, these guys had their run and it was over. We've had Miz as a single for is it eight years? It's seven years since Sheamus first won the title. 

AJ, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Joe, Nakamura etc are all better wrestlers, better characters and are fresh. The likes of Sheamus, Miz, even Ziggler and many others have been around for years doing boring, homogenised, corporate stuff and frankly it's time for something different.

 

Its not like Miz and Sheamus are constantly pushed, they both drift in and out of the main storylines. They both know how to be heels, which isn't a bad skill in a company with few people who do.

Of course wwe need fresh talent to complement the roster and they are constantly bringing people in. That doesn't mean I want to see a roster full of new guys. I think there's still a place for someone like Kane 20 years later.

[Andre91]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Its not like Miz and Sheamus are constantly pushed, they both drift in and out of the main storylines. They both know how to be heels, which isn't a bad skill in a company with few people who do.

Of course wwe need fresh talent to complement the roster and they are constantly bringing people in. That doesn't mean I want to see a roster full of new guys. I think there's still a place for someone like Kane 20 years later.

I disagree with the last part. After almost 20 years there is absolutely no place for people like Kane, Big Show and Mark Henry. The only reason Big Show is still there is because they haven't found anyone as big as him yet. Yeah they've got someone like Strowman, but he isn't quite as freakishly large as Big Show. 

Heres a good one. If you could cut five wrestlers from the WWE Main Roster, who would they be? Mine would be the three I've mentioned above plus Goldust and R-Truth.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Andre91

[jump]

^I like Kane, Show and R-Truth, as long as they are used for the lower card they are fine it's when they are used as the main event on Raw every week that's the problem. Also R-Truth is the only one that has made be laugh on the show in the last 10ish years with the ladder in the Rumble bit.

I'd cut stuff like the New Age Outlaws coming back for matches and titles.

[Uncle Liam]

1 hour ago, Andre91 said:

 

Heres a good one. If you could cut five wrestlers from the WWE Main Roster, who would they be? 

Ooooh... good one.

Miz

Sheamus 

Big Show 

Jack Swagger

Curtis Axel

 

I'd get rid of all of them because I don't see what they could do in the future.

Now take those five off and instead have Finn Balor, Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura, Hideo Itami and Austin Aries on the show instead. 

There is definitely room for comedy, which is where your Goldusts and R-Truths and Social Outcasts come in, there's also got to be a mid card but unless you are a clealry defined opening/mid card act- and no better example exists than Godfather of that (well, maybe Santino)- then you should be looking to get to the top. Remember when the IC belt was a step towards holding the big belt, or when it was seen as the 'workers belt' for best in ring technician or what not? Really, the IC belt should be on Owens in his feud with Zayn. Not on Miz and his 'feud' with Ryder. 

They have right now the best talent roster they have had since 2003. It's such a shame that a lot of it is 'squandered' in NXT. 

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, Andre91 said:

I disagree with the last part. After almost 20 years there is absolutely no place for people like Kane, Big Show and Mark Henry. The only reason Big Show is still there is because they haven't found anyone as big as him yet. Yeah they've got someone like Strowman, but he isn't quite as freakishly large as Big Show. 

Heres a good one. If you could cut five wrestlers from the WWE Main Roster, who would they be? Mine would be the three I've mentioned above plus Goldust and R-Truth.

Thats a hell of a lot of wisdom and experience you are getting rid of there.  I imagine these people play an important role with the younger guys in the roster.  I think there is a place for a bit of nostalgia, these may not be the people I want to see in big ppv matches, but I would in a house show

59 minutes ago, Uncle Liam said:

Ooooh... good one.

Miz

Sheamus 

Big Show 

Jack Swagger

Curtis Axel

 

I'd get rid of all of them because I don't see what they could do in the future.

Now take those five off and instead have Finn Balor, Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura, Hideo Itami and Austin Aries on the show instead. 

There is definitely room for comedy, which is where your Goldusts and R-Truths and Social Outcasts come in, there's also got to be a mid card but unless you are a clealry defined opening/mid card act- and no better example exists than Godfather of that (well, maybe Santino)- then you should be looking to get to the top. Remember when the IC belt was a step towards holding the big belt, or when it was seen as the 'workers belt' for best in ring technician or what not? Really, the IC belt should be on Owens in his feud with Zayn. Not on Miz and his 'feud' with Ryder. 

They have right now the best talent roster they have had since 2003. It's such a shame that a lot of it is 'squandered' in NXT. 

The trouble I have with your exchange is the majority of them are not recieving much of a push at present. My assumption is that your replacing them with 5 people you think should be pushed.  Then comes the reality that you can only really push so many people at one time. i suspect if that exchange took place, you would only end up annoyed that people who you liked werent getting used properly.  NXT allows the WWE to push more people at any one time, so I wouldnt see it as being squandered.

Mine would be

Orton, Summer Rae, Swagger, Ascension (possibly cheating there) and Breeze

I would also send Crews back to NXT

[Andre91]

Who do people think the assumed third man will be joining Anderson & Gallows? I'm going for AJ. The whole Usos thing ties in nicely with Reigns vs. AJ. 

I think The Usos should turn heel with Reigns though. They're such a boring face team. We have Enzo & Cass, New Day and Lucha Dragons as face teams. The Usos forming some kind of Samoan Dynasty type shtick with Reigns would be something fresh I think. 

Have the Bullet Club as Tweeners or badass faces. Like The Shield became. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Andre91

[CHRLY]

Taker added back to Smackdown. Hoping that means an appearance on Raw, too.

[pink_triangle]

6 hours ago, Andre91 said:

. 

I think The Usos should turn heel with Reigns though. They're such a boring face team. We have Enzo & Cass, New Day and Lucha Dragons as face teams. The Usos forming some kind of Samoan Dynasty type shtick with Reigns would be something fresh I think. 

I think they lost a lot of steam when one of them got injured.  I'm not sure a heel turn is right, I think they are pretty over with the younger audience.

[DomDom1984]

Ospreay showing the world how good he is in his match with KUSHIDA. Amazing stuff. 

[When Jokers Attack]

2 hours ago, DomDom1984 said:

Ospreay showing the world how good he is in his match with KUSHIDA. Amazing stuff. 

The guy is just incredible.  Every match he seems to kill it. 

NJPW Invasion Attack was a brilliant show, the booking made sense in the majority of the matches, the winners of the matches actually going over for a reason, to setup future feuds with titleholders.

Naito is now the champion, which was a great moment. The fans turned on him and didn't want him to the guy, so he turned heel last summer. Now he is over as hell , sound familiar? 

Edited April 14, 2016 by When Jokers Attack

[Uncle Liam]

17 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Thats a hell of a lot of wisdom and experience you are getting rid of there.  I imagine these people play an important role with the younger guys in the roster.  I think there is a place for a bit of nostalgia, these may not be the people I want to see in big ppv matches, but I would in a house show

The trouble I have with your exchange is the majority of them are not recieving much of a push at present. My assumption is that your replacing them with 5 people you think should be pushed.  Then comes the reality that you can only really push so many people at one time. i suspect if that exchange took place, you would only end up annoyed that people who you liked werent getting used properly.  NXT allows the WWE to push more people at any one time, so I wouldnt see it as being squandered.

Mine would be

Orton, Summer Rae, Swagger, Ascension (possibly cheating there) and Breeze

I would also send Crews back to NXT

Sheamus is taking up a spot in the feud with the Wyatts

June isn't far away so presumably that's when Big Show will turn heel again and feud with Reigns. 

Miz is the IC title holder

Curtis Axel is in the Social Outcasts and I'd cut him because once that gimmick runs it's course the other three have something but we've been here with Curtis Axel before and it's just not going to work.


I think you're right about Orton though, his time has definitely come. Although knowing Vince, if they do move him down the card they'll move him down to feud for the US Title with Cena when they are both back. 

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, Uncle Liam said:

Sheamus is taking up a spot in the feud with the Wyatts

June isn't far away so presumably that's when Big Show will turn heel again and feud with Reigns. 

Miz is the IC title holder

Curtis Axel is in the Social Outcasts and I'd cut him because once that gimmick runs it's course the other three have something but we've been here with Curtis Axel before and it's just not going to work.


I think you're right about Orton though, his time has definitely come. Although knowing Vince, if they do move him down the card they'll move him down to feud for the US Title with Cena when they are both back. 

Apart from maybe sheamus the guys your cutting drift in and out when it comes to pushes. Would you be happy for that for the people you want in. The trouble is a lot of people moan about 50/50 booking but want to push so many people it makes it hard to do anything different.

[When Jokers Attack]

50/50 booking is the problem, If Reigns got injured, who could step up and be the guy? Nobody because they have ruined everyone. AJ styles should still be undefeated to make him look like a strong challenger. You can still push guys without using 50/50. Just have long title reigns, with the champions rarely losing but when they do, it makes it feel special and gives credibility to the title. Establishes a star out of it as well.

to use New Japan as an example again, Naito beat Okada last weekend, Okada hadn't been pinned since August (by Nakamura in a final of g1 climax tournament) made it feel more important when Naito won.

[Uncle Liam]

Reigns isn't the guy! No matter what he says it's so clearly obvious that he isn't. Who could step up? Ambrose for a start. I saw more Ambrose t shirts all week in Dallas than any other. 

WWE has probably four of the best wrestlers in the world in Nakamura, Balor, Joe and KENTA (ok, he's injured) in it's developmental (and as good as NXT is, that's what it is). Why, when the main roster is still pretty stale?

Get rid of Miz, Big Show, Ziggler, Sheamus, Orton, Sandow, etc. It's not like Orton has been missed and it's not like the show needs any of the others. Don't have an official brand split, but have feuds on Raw and feuds on Smackdown. And just book great matches for the hell of it. 

To be fair though, Payback looks like the most interesting card in years. So hopefully moving in the right direction...

[pink_triangle]

33 minutes ago, Uncle Liam said:

WWE has probably four of the best wrestlers in the world in Nakamura, Balor, Joe and KENTA (ok, he's injured) in it's developmental (and as good as NXT is, that's what it is). Why, when the main roster is still pretty stale?

Get rid of Miz, Big Show, Ziggler, Sheamus, Orton, Sandow, etc.

I think there's a danger you end up filling the roster with a load of workhorse internet darlings. Wwe should never be about catering for just the hardcore fans. When at its best wrestlers of all shapes, sizes, abilities, characters and backgrounds can flourish. WWE has never just been about the quality of wrestling and never should be.

I want to see the great workers, the meatheads, the giant's. There's more than enough time for everyone 

[When Jokers Attack]

The problem with Ambrose is, he has been booked like shit so doesn't look believable as the guy, If he was to challenge Reigns, No one would think he could win because the reality is, he never does win big matches. Bray Wyatt, Ambrose, Ziggler have all been wasted and meant nothing. Hopefully this face turn is he start of a real Wyatt push, once he is back from injury that is.

Could you imagine if WWE booked, Taker, Shawn, Bret, Angle etc when they were midcarders, the same way they book today's, they wouldn't be stars. It's not that they lose matches, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it serves a purpose and they aren't losing every other week on Raw and losing a lot more than they should be. If you are going to feud with someone, you should only face each other in a one on one at a PPV and build the feud with angles, promos, tag matches until then. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by When Jokers Attack

[When Jokers Attack]

11 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think there's a danger you end up filling the roster with a load of workhorse internet darlings. Wwe should never be about catering for just the hardcore fans. When at its best wrestlers of all shapes, sizes, abilities, characters and backgrounds can flourish. WWE has never just been about the quality of wrestling and never should be.

I want to see the great workers, the meatheads, the giant's. There's more than enough time for everyone 

WWE should cater to the hardcore crowd as they are the ones that will stick with them through the good and the bad. I'm not saying do everything the fans want but at least keep them happy from time to time. Samoa Joe should be on the main roster right now, actually if there is going to be a third man with Gallows/Anderson then it could be him. 

I do agree there is a place on the roster for the comedy relief wrestlers and the big men who aren't great workers but there is no reason some of the best wrestlers in the world can't also be on the main roster instead of in NXT. Looking back 10-12 years ago, what is it that people remember? The workhorses like, Eddie, Angle, Benoit, HBK. Not crap like The Boogeyman and Heidenreich. The wrestling should be the most important aspect of the show, especially when you actually have some of the best under contract.

[jump]

This "the guy" thing hasn't really worked since Hogan, even when Austin was "the guy" it was putting the belt on Foley that cemented the start of WWF winning the Wars. Have lots of the "the guy" so every segement is great.