CHRLY Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I don't think it's to do with him having the "indie cool factor" - it's literally that he was a fantastic technical wrestler, who many learned lots from and had great matches with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom1984 Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'd argue that only HBK and Benoit are his equals in the 21st century. At least in the west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nal Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, DomDom1984 said: I'd argue that only HBK and Benoit are his equals in the 21st century. At least in the west. Angle, Eddie, Jericho, HHH, Cena. HBK a class above everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom1984 Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Cena is the best big match guy for sure, but is a bit too flawed for the elite in my eyes. Angle and Eddie aren't far behind for me, but I don't think they're quite there. I want to see Sami Zayn get a big run to see how he fares. I don't think, if he gets the chance to show it, that he'd be far behind at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Jokers Attack Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 36 minutes ago, The Nal said: Angle, Eddie, Jericho, HHH, Cena. HBK a class above everyone. I'd add in Punk and AJ Styles as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 15 hours ago, The Nal said: Bryan was a big draw of course and was really only getting going which is sad. Would've loved to see a heel turn at some point. I think a heel turn would have been a bad idea. You would just end up with the situation they have with new day where the heels are more popular than the bsbyfaces which ruins the matches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 13 hours ago, jump said: ^Heels coming out and booing Bryan, fighting faces or something else as stupid as that would just ended up with WWE being criticized. It may be criticized, but that's not a bad thing in itself. One day they will have to let the heels do something actually heelish 13 hours ago, CHRLY said: I don't think it's to do with him having the "indie cool factor" - it's literally that he was a fantastic technical wrestler, who many learned lots from and had great matches with. I don't think it has to be because of one or the other. In my view his popularity is due to both. Having that indie background certainly gets your name known and there are a certain group of fans who will always respect that route more than someone who has always worked under the wwe umbrella. However it can be a hinderance as I think a lot of these people who come into the wwe with an already established fanbase struggle to get over as heels, as they have a large amount of fans who want them to always win. As for where Bryan fits in, it's a difficult one to judge as his time at the top was relatively short. Undoubtedly a great wrestler, but In my view a little lacking in the memorable feuds and matches. He wouldn't rank above edge, Jericho and angle to me due to their longevity. I would see him in a similar way to eddy and that's not bad company! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre91 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) Daniel Bryan was WWE's most over wrestler since Austin and The Rock bar none. His road to WrestleMania 30 is one of the very best ever in my eyes. I've been watching WWE since around '99, when I was 7 years old. I had a break from after Mania in '08 until Novemebr in '11, and since I started watching again, the whole YES Movement angle is the single thing that got me most invested in what the company was doing. It was amazing stuff, for me anyway, and they will be lucky to have something half as organic as that was on their hands for a very very long time. Edited February 13, 2016 by Andre91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Andre91 said: Daniel Bryan was WWE's most over wrestler since Austin and The Rock bar none. His road to WrestleMania 30 is one of the very best ever in my eyes. I've been watching WWE since around '99, when I was 7 years old. I had a break from after Mania in '08 until Novemebr in '11, and since I started watching again, the whole YES Movement angle is the single thing that got me most invested in what the company was doing. It was amazing stuff, for me anyway, and they will be lucky to have something half as organic as that was on their hands for a very very long time. Well being over is a quite subjective measure. How do you judge it cheers from crowd, internet talk, ppv buy rates, merch sales, also how do you split faces and heels? Do you get extra points for longevity? I feel its something I would struggle to debate because I don't really know how to define it. However do I think his fans exaggerate his popularity and legacy? In my opinion yes, which doesn't mean I didn't enjoy his work. Just my take on things. In terms of his time as a real top star it was short, but enjoyable. It reminded me of Eddy who one day just clicked and the rest is history. His wrestlemania was good, but the build up a little underwhelming for me. To me the best roads always start with a rumble victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom1984 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Bryans popularity is being overstated. It didn't translate to ratings, buys and attendance hikes. And therefore he wasn't near the likes of Rock and Austin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) 21 hours ago, DomDom1984 said: Cena is the best big match guy for sure, but is a bit too flawed for the elite in my eyes. Angle and Eddie aren't far behind for me, but I don't think they're quite there. I want to see Sami Zayn get a big run to see how he fares. I don't think, if he gets the chance to show it, that he'd be far behind at all. Angle is one of greatest in ring imo, his body of work in the wwe was incredible. Greatest big match performer for me will always be HBK Edited February 13, 2016 by swede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 3 hours ago, swede said: Angle is one of greatest in ring imo, his body of work in the wwe was incredible. Greatest big match performer for me will always be HBK Agreed about angle, particularly in the first couple of years. Am currently working through the wwe ppvs on the network and had forgotten how popular angle was during the invasion. Also HBK is the greatest ever in my view. There was nothing he did not excel at. His catalogue of matches and feuds far surpasses everything in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckysalt Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Which makes it even more digusting that he only held 3 WWE titles and 1 World Heavyweight Title. 4 World Titles is such a poor record for such a great title. When he came back and won that World Title then dropped it not long after, Ive no idea why he didn't win any further titles when he was a full time talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre91 Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 1 hour ago, luckysalt said: Which makes it even more digusting that he only held 3 WWE titles and 1 World Heavyweight Title. 4 World Titles is such a poor record for such a great title. When he came back and won that World Title then dropped it not long after, Ive no idea why he didn't win any further titles when he was a full time talent. I've always read that it was his choice not to have the world title after he came back as he didn't want the workload of doing every tour and house shows etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckysalt Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 18 minutes ago, Andre91 said: I've always read that it was his choice not to have the world title after he came back as he didn't want the workload of doing every tour and house shows etc. Didn't stop them putting it on Lesnar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 2 hours ago, luckysalt said: Which makes it even more digusting that he only held 3 WWE titles and 1 World Heavyweight Title. 4 World Titles is such a poor record for such a great title. When he came back and won that World Title then dropped it not long after, Ive no idea why he didn't win any further titles when he was a full time talent. I think of hbk as being someone who didn't really need the title, similar to undertaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom1984 Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 4 hours ago, Andre91 said: I've always read that it was his choice not to have the world title after he came back as he didn't want the workload of doing every tour and house shows etc. Vince also didn't buy him as a main eventer though. Much like Benoit. Got his run at the top and then back as a midcarder. In both cases, Vince knew how good they were in the ring, but didn't think they were top level guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Rob Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 On 13/02/2016 at 2:34 PM, DomDom1984 said: Bryans popularity is being overstated. It didn't translate to ratings, buys and attendance hikes. And therefore he wasn't near the likes of Rock and Austin. Fact. I think the summer of Punk in 2011 generated more ratings and buys, then Daniel Bryan underdog story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nal Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 17 hours ago, luckysalt said: Which makes it even more digusting that he only held 3 WWE titles and 1 World Heavyweight Title. 4 World Titles is such a poor record for such a great title. When he came back and won that World Title then dropped it not long after, Ive no idea why he didn't win any further titles when he was a full time talent. Didn't want the workload and was a nightmare to deal with backstage as a singles wrestler. Easy enough with DX but didn't play ball when it came to 1 on 1. See his feud with Hulk Hogan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom1984 Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 3 hours ago, A-Rob said: Fact. I think the summer of Punk in 2011 generated more ratings and buys, then Daniel Bryan underdog story And even then, that wasn't particularly big selling. And I've never seen anyone saying anything about HBK being a problem in the later years of his career when he was the absolute top of his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nal Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 10 minutes ago, DomDom1984 said: And I've never seen anyone saying anything about HBK being a problem in the later years of his career when he was the absolute top of his game. He was. No drugs but still a pain in the arse. Not as bad as before his comeback obviously. He was unplayable then. Most of the top guys could be hard to deal with. Actually can;'t think of a top guy who hasn't had a severe falling out with management or haven't used their power to a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_triangle Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 18 minutes ago, DomDom1984 said: And I've never seen anyone saying anything about HBK being a problem in the later years of his career when he was the absolute top of his game. Me either, I wonder if they felt the stress of him being the main man brought out the worst in him and instead just said go out and steal the show. However even when not world champion he was still treated like a star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jump Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 I've read Kurt Angle calling Shawn a prick in interviews a few times but I think the HBK v Hogan problems was more due to Hogan because well it's Hogan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nal Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, jump said: I've read Kurt Angle calling Shawn a prick in interviews a few times but I think the HBK v Hogan problems was more due to Hogan because well it's Hogan. They were both a problem, but yeah Hogan didn't help. HBK did the overselling thing with Angle too. Pity we never got HBK vs The Rock. Also HBKs fault. Edited February 15, 2016 by The Nal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Liam Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 To be fair by the time Rock became a star Shawn gone, and when Shawn came back Rock was basically gone. When Rock came back in 2011 Shawn had already retired. Ok, so we could've had Shawn v Rocky Maivia on Raw in 1997, but the reality is a HBK v Rock dream match was never really feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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