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lharris92
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Cena is the best big match guy for sure, but is a bit too flawed for the elite in my eyes. Angle and Eddie aren't far behind for me, but I don't think they're quite there.

I want to see Sami Zayn get a big run to see how he fares. I don't think, if he gets the chance to show it, that he'd be far behind at all.

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15 hours ago, The Nal said:

Bryan was a big draw of course and was really only getting going which is sad. Would've loved to see a heel turn at some point.

I think a heel turn would have been a bad idea. You would just end up with the situation they have with new day where the heels are more popular than the bsbyfaces which ruins the matches 

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13 hours ago, jump said:

^Heels coming out and booing Bryan, fighting faces or something else as stupid as that would just ended up with WWE being criticized.

It may be criticized, but that's not a bad thing in itself. One day they will have to let the heels do something actually heelish 

13 hours ago, CHRLY said:

I don't think it's to do with him having the "indie cool factor" - it's literally that he was a fantastic technical wrestler, who many learned lots from and had great matches with.

I don't think it has to be because of one or the other. In my view his popularity is due to both. Having that indie background certainly gets your name known and there are a certain group of fans who will always respect that route more than someone who has always worked under the wwe umbrella.

However it can be a hinderance as I think a lot of these people who come into the wwe with an already established fanbase struggle to get over as heels, as they have a large amount of fans who want them to always win.

As for where Bryan fits in, it's a difficult one to judge as his time at the top was relatively short. Undoubtedly a great wrestler, but In my view a little lacking in the memorable feuds and matches. He wouldn't rank above edge, Jericho and angle to me due to their longevity. I would see him in a similar way to eddy and that's not bad company!

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Daniel Bryan was WWE's most over wrestler since Austin and The Rock bar none. His road to WrestleMania 30 is one of the very best ever in my eyes. I've been watching WWE since around '99, when I was 7 years old. I had a break from after Mania in '08 until Novemebr in '11, and since I started watching again, the whole YES Movement angle is the single thing that got me most invested in what the company was doing. It was amazing stuff, for me anyway, and they will be lucky to have something half as organic as that was on their hands for a very very long time. 

 

Edited by Andre91
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1 hour ago, Andre91 said:

Daniel Bryan was WWE's most over wrestler since Austin and The Rock bar none. His road to WrestleMania 30 is one of the very best ever in my eyes. I've been watching WWE since around '99, when I was 7 years old. I had a break from after Mania in '08 until Novemebr in '11, and since I started watching again, the whole YES Movement angle is the single thing that got me most invested in what the company was doing. It was amazing stuff, for me anyway, and they will be lucky to have something half as organic as that was on their hands for a very very long time. 

 

Well being over is a quite subjective measure. How do you judge it cheers from crowd, internet talk, ppv buy rates, merch sales, also how do you split faces and heels? Do you get extra points for longevity? I feel its something I would struggle to debate because I don't really know how to define it. However do I think his fans exaggerate his popularity and legacy? In my opinion yes, which doesn't mean I didn't enjoy his work. Just my take on things.

In terms of his time as a real top star it was short, but enjoyable. It reminded me of Eddy who one day just clicked and the rest is history. His wrestlemania was good, but the build up a little underwhelming for me. To me the best roads always start with a rumble victory.

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21 hours ago, DomDom1984 said:

Cena is the best big match guy for sure, but is a bit too flawed for the elite in my eyes. Angle and Eddie aren't far behind for me, but I don't think they're quite there.

I want to see Sami Zayn get a big run to see how he fares. I don't think, if he gets the chance to show it, that he'd be far behind at all.

Angle is one of greatest in ring imo, his body of work in the wwe was incredible.

Greatest big match performer for me will always be HBK 

Edited by swede
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3 hours ago, swede said:

Angle is one of greatest in ring imo, his body of work in the wwe was incredible.

Greatest big match performer for me will always be HBK 

Agreed about angle, particularly in the first couple of years. Am currently working through the wwe ppvs on the network and had forgotten how popular angle was during the invasion.

Also HBK is the greatest ever in my view. There was nothing he did not excel at. His catalogue of matches and feuds far surpasses everything in my view.

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Which makes it even more digusting that he only held 3 WWE titles and 1 World Heavyweight Title.

4 World Titles is such a poor record for such a great title. When he came back and won that World Title then dropped it not long after, Ive no idea why he didn't win any further titles when he was a full time talent.

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1 hour ago, luckysalt said:

Which makes it even more digusting that he only held 3 WWE titles and 1 World Heavyweight Title.

4 World Titles is such a poor record for such a great title. When he came back and won that World Title then dropped it not long after, Ive no idea why he didn't win any further titles when he was a full time talent.

I've always read that it was his choice not to have the world title after he came back as he didn't want the workload of doing every tour and house shows etc.

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2 hours ago, luckysalt said:

Which makes it even more digusting that he only held 3 WWE titles and 1 World Heavyweight Title.

4 World Titles is such a poor record for such a great title. When he came back and won that World Title then dropped it not long after, Ive no idea why he didn't win any further titles when he was a full time talent.

I think of hbk as being someone who didn't really need the title, similar to undertaker.

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4 hours ago, Andre91 said:

I've always read that it was his choice not to have the world title after he came back as he didn't want the workload of doing every tour and house shows etc.

Vince also didn't buy him as a main eventer though. Much like Benoit. Got his run at the top and then back as a midcarder. In both cases, Vince knew how good they were in the ring, but didn't think they were top level guys.

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On ‎13‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 2:34 PM, DomDom1984 said:

 

Bryans popularity is being overstated. It didn't translate to ratings, buys and attendance hikes. And therefore he wasn't near the likes of Rock and Austin. 

Fact.

I think the summer of Punk in 2011 generated more ratings and buys, then Daniel Bryan underdog story

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17 hours ago, luckysalt said:

Which makes it even more digusting that he only held 3 WWE titles and 1 World Heavyweight Title.

4 World Titles is such a poor record for such a great title. When he came back and won that World Title then dropped it not long after, Ive no idea why he didn't win any further titles when he was a full time talent.

Didn't want the workload and was a nightmare to deal with backstage as a singles wrestler. Easy enough with DX but  didn't play ball when it came to 1 on 1. See his feud with Hulk Hogan.

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3 hours ago, A-Rob said:

Fact.

I think the summer of Punk in 2011 generated more ratings and buys, then Daniel Bryan underdog story

And even then, that wasn't particularly big selling.

And I've never seen anyone saying anything about HBK being a problem in the later years of his career when he was the absolute top of his game. 

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10 minutes ago, DomDom1984 said:

And I've never seen anyone saying anything about HBK being a problem in the later years of his career when he was the absolute top of his game. 

He was. No drugs but still a pain in the arse. Not as bad as before his comeback obviously. He was unplayable then.

Most of the top guys could be hard to deal with. Actually can;'t think of a top guy who hasn't had a severe falling out with management or haven't used their power to a degree.

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18 minutes ago, DomDom1984 said:

 

And I've never seen anyone saying anything about HBK being a problem in the later years of his career when he was the absolute top of his game. 

Me either, I wonder if they felt the stress of him being the main man brought out the worst in him and instead just said go out and steal the show. However even when not world champion he was still treated like a star.

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14 minutes ago, jump said:

I've read Kurt Angle calling Shawn a prick in interviews a few times but I think the HBK v Hogan problems was more due to Hogan because well it's Hogan.

 

They were both a problem, but yeah Hogan didn't help. HBK did the overselling thing with Angle too.

Pity we never got HBK vs The Rock. Also HBKs fault.

Edited by The Nal
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To be fair by the time Rock became a star Shawn gone, and when Shawn came back Rock was basically gone. 

When Rock came back in 2011 Shawn had already retired.

Ok, so we could've had Shawn v Rocky Maivia on Raw in 1997, but the reality is a HBK v Rock dream match was never really feasible. 

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