WWE

[pink_triangle]

5 hours ago, luckysalt said:

The guys you listed.

Austin debuted in WWE in 95, was champ in 98. less time.

Bret Hart went singles in 90, was champ in 92, less time.

HBK went singles in 92 was champ in 96 just over.

HHH debuted in 95 was champ in 99, just over but had his big de-push due to the cliq, would probably have got it sooner

Mysterio was never classed as world champ really. Yeah he won it but was never a main eventer

Jericho debuted in WWE in 99 was champ in 2001, less time

Benoit debuted in WWE in 2000 was champ in 2004, more time, 

Eddie same as benoit

Edge was a long time I agree, a hell of a long time.

Now onto some others, Kurt Angle was around a year. Big Show was 2 years and in WCW won it his first night, Bastista was less time, Orton was, Goldberg was, Cena was, the list goes on.

I know it seems like it was a long time for most of these guys, but when you look back it really wasn't. Edge is the mad one, debuted in 99 and didn't get the push until 2007! I have to say though, I never liked Edge until the Matt Hardy-Lita love triangle and he went heel and it gave him an 'edge' I reckon a lot of fans and vince, felt the same, he was very vanilla.

I was including wcw and the tag team division in terms of learning the trade with the spotlight of mainstream tv. Some greats (better than Ambrose in my view) like Dibiase, bulldog, Owen and henning never won the world title in wwe and I don't think it affected their legacy at all.

[luckysalt]

Yeah but Vince doesn't really count WCW when a guy comes over, he always starts them at scratch, ask Jericho about that! And tag work doesn't count IMO, you don't go from tagging to world title, once you are a singles guy its a clean slate, take HBK, he was like a new signing when he went solo, completely different character, this was the way they did it back then, Powers of Pain, Dream Team etc 

[When Jokers Attack]

If we aren't including tag teams then Ambrose has only been solo for under 2 years. First year and a bit he was always in tags.

[jump]

On 01/29/16 at 2:03 PM, When Jokers Attack said:

If we aren't including tag teams then Ambrose has only been solo for under 2 years. First year and a bit he was always in tags.

I wouldn't say a stable and a tag team are the same thing, Ambrose had the US title for a long while whilst he was in the Shield.

[A-Rob]

I really don't get Ambrose, I know he's good and can be entertaining but clearly I don't see him as an instant world champion material. He reminds me of Brian Pillman, a great upper mid carder but not a main eventer.

I Think Bray Wyatt and Kevin Owens will be better world champions

[pink_triangle]

6 hours ago, A-Rob said:

I really don't get Ambrose, I know he's good and can be entertaining but clearly I don't see him as an instant world champion material. He reminds me of Brian Pillman, a great upper mid carder but not a main eventer.

I Think Bray Wyatt and Kevin Owens will be better world champions

I think some people are just more suited to that upper mid card role.  Look back at previous eras and I would put Owen Hart, Mr Perfect and British Bulldog in the same category.  I don't think any of their careers were tarnished by the fact that they weren't given the big belt.

I am sure they will give Bray a run with the belt one day.  I'm less sure about Owens who I feel may be a perennial mid carder like Ambrose.  I also think his look will go against him when it comes to being the main man.

[luckysalt]

IMO Owen and Perfect could have carried the belt easily. 

Perfect was set to win the title but then got injured, I also think Owen could have took the title from Bret in 94/95 he was over as a heel and that fued was hot, instead they put the strap on Diesel for a year.... 

Bulldog im not sure, I think he could have been champ in WCW in 92 when he was fired from WWF two months after winning the IC title at Summerslam, he was a huge star then, im not sure theres a period in WWF he was over enough, maybe in 96 when he had that fued with Shawn and they headlined a few PPVs in a row, they could have traded the strap over those months. Yeah Id go with that. In that period of time the belt never changed anywhere near as much as it started to during attitude era onwards. 

Think if it was a different time they would have all been world champions. Rick Rude is another that springs to mind, especially when he also jumped to WCW for money, im shocked they never put the world title on him. 

Dibiase should have also been champion, Hogan held the title for way too long, and Slaughter should have NEVER been world champion, they were just trying to play on real life events. 

[CHRLY]

Nope.

 

[The Nal]

Poor bloke. Another victim of the diving headbutt? Like Harley Race, Dynamite Kid, Benoit. 

[When Jokers Attack]

Sounds legit. Once WWE refused to clear him, he had more extensive tests done in New York which checks all the areas of the brain and maybe that was what has caused his decision.

[pink_triangle]

Its disappointing when anyone has to retire early, although no doubts he will gain the benefits in his later years by quitting now.  I actually haven't missed him much and not sure what was left for him to achieve.  He has done the wrestlemania title win, but in my view the character was all about the chase and I had little interest in him having a long title reign. 

I also found his fans could be a little annoying at times throwing a hissy fit every time he lost a match.  It will be interesting to see what kind of role they find for him in the company now.  Hopefully they can use his popularity to help get a heel or babyface  on the current roster a rub.

[luckysalt]

Theres a fair few people thinking this is just a way to get out of WWE, he will lay low a bit and then wrestle somewhere else, maybe TNA, maybe New Japan. But he clearly LOVES to wrestle. 

I saw Angle say only the other day that if Bryan gets out his WWE contract he would wrestle him either in TNA or indie somewhere before they both retire. 

I honestly wonder if Bryan does leave WWE and TNA put on an actual PPV with Angle and Bryan headlining it, what it would actually draw, like do people actually give that much of a fuck, cus people bummed Angle, Jeff Hardy etc but they didn't follow them to TNA. Sometimes these obsessive fans are just twats.

Anyway. I hope he's alright, he's clearly been very frustrated for the past year and more in fact. But i'd rather he stays healthy than risk it.

[luckysalt]

Hmm this was posted only Sunday.

http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2016/2/7/10933982/wwe-recently-blocked-daniel-bryan-from-giving-notice

Also interesting Bryan says retiring from WWE. 

[jump]

I was never really a fan of Bryan, I liked him enough though, but it was amazing how the crowd actually got behind without prompting. Just watch his matches and listen to crowd, it's shocking how different it is compared to Raw and the PPVs that are on now.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, jump said:

I was never really a fan of Bryan, I liked him enough though, but it was amazing how the crowd actually got behind without prompting. Just watch his matches and listen to crowd, it's shocking how different it is compared to Raw and the PPVs that are on now.

I could take him or leave him as well.  In terms of crowd response it worked both way for me.  Its great when he was getting the positive reaction, however the same fans were also on occasions ruining the shows for me by throwing the toys out of the pram whenever he lost a match or wasnt in the main event.

[jump]

10 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I could take him or leave him as well.  In terms of crowd response it worked both way for me.  Its great when he was getting the positive reaction, however the same fans were also on occasions ruining the shows for me by throwing the toys out of the pram whenever he lost a match or wasnt in the main event.

They were booing when their favourite wrestler lost, how digusting!!!

[pink_triangle]

Just now, jump said:

They were booing when their favourite wrestler lost, how digusting!!!

No its very different, booing when your favorite loses (even better if its a result of a heel cheating) is fine.  However when that negativity moves into the other matches on the card thats when it starts to have a detrimental effect.  When I first started watching wrestling Barry Windham was my favourite, he was occasionally at the main event level, but more than often not.  As long as he was on the card I wasnt too bothered about the placement as I knew he would have a good match.

[jump]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

No its very different, booing when your favorite loses (even better if its a result of a heel cheating) is fine.  However when that negativity moves into the other matches on the card thats when it starts to have a detrimental effect.  When I first started watching wrestling Barry Windham was my favourite, he was occasionally at the main event level, but more than often not.  As long as he was on the card I wasnt too bothered about the placement as I knew he would have a good match.

Yeah I was just exaggerating the point. Tbh the easiest way to sort this out is by putting out heels and faces who are actually over and have decent angles and stories, it's been so long they've actually done anything interesting.

[Andre91]

Wow that was emotional. Thank you, Daniel Bryan. 

[When Jokers Attack]

It was an awesome speech and wish him all the best, I'm sure WWE will look after him and bring him back every so often, just like they do with HBK, Edge etc. He would fit in as a trainer down in NXT, Young upcoming guys could learn a lot from him. Can't believe Bryan and Punk are now both gone, the two most over wrestlers since Austin and Rock. Who currently on the roster could become as popular as them? I can't think of anyone, maybe Sami Zayn but the thing with Zayn is his booking and story would be too similar to Bryan. A small underdog fighting against the odds.

Everyone keeps saying the future of WWE is bright with all the talent they have now but all the people we want to see make it to the top have been doing this for years before getting to the WWE, just like Bryan, and they are not exactly young and most are plagued with injuries.

Finn Balor (34), Styles (37), Cesaro (35), Nakamura (35), Itami (34), Samoa Joe (36)

All of those guys are the same age or older than Bryan and have been around just as long.

Then you have guys like Cena and Orton, who are also always injured. The difference is they started as WWE guys, so they got a lot more out of them as this is where they have spent their entire career. They hadn't busted their ass for a decade before arriving. It seems like when you hit mid thirties the injuries start to recur more often, all those years on the road with the heavy schedule catches up with you.

[Andre91]

Seth Rollins is the future of the company. I'm certain that Rollins, Reigns and Owens will be the cornerstones of WWE for quite a while to come.

[The Nal]

1 hour ago, Andre91 said:

Seth Rollins is the future of the company. I'm certain that Rollins, Reigns and Owens will be the cornerstones of WWE for quite a while to come.

Ambrose and Wyatt too. 

Fair play to Bryan. As he said, 5ft 8, 14 stone and he achieved what he did. 

[pink_triangle]

 

5 hours ago, When Jokers Attack said:

 Can't believe Bryan and Punk are now both gone, the two most over wrestlers since Austin and Rock. Who currently on the roster could become as popular as them? I can't think of anyone, maybe Sami Zayn but the thing with Zayn is his booking and story would be too similar to Bryan. A small underdog fighting against the odds.

I think that's debatable, although I suppose it depends how you define "over".  I would certainly throw Eddie (brief run at top but at his peak mega over), Jeff Hardy, Brock, Kurt Angle and early RVD to the mix.  I think theres also an argument to be made that Punk and Bryan connected with the converted, but I'm not sure that either would be classified as big draw.  I agree Zayn could pull off the underdog story, but if you do that story too often it can lose its meaning.

5 hours ago, When Jokers Attack said:

Everyone keeps saying the future of WWE is bright with all the talent they have now but all the people we want to see make it to the top have been doing this for years before getting to the WWE, just like Bryan, and they are not exactly young and most are plagued with injuries.

Finn Balor (34), Styles (37), Cesaro (35), Nakamura (35), Itami (34), Samoa Joe (36)

All of those guys are the same age or older than Bryan and have been around just as long.

I don't think the WWE main event should ever be a closed shop to the hardcore fans indie heroes.  While they definitely have their place I think they have pros and cons and fill the card with them you could end up lacking in variety.  To me the WWE is at its best when there is a place for great workers and charismatic mediocre workers, intimdating giants and small guys, wrestling veterans and ex footballers/athletes to me the diversity is what will push them further into the mainstream again..

1 hour ago, The Nal said:

Ambrose and Wyatt too. 

Fair play to Bryan. As he said, 5ft 8, 14 stone and he achieved what he did. 

I still think Wyatt is going to be the big one.  His character is lacking direction, but I get the impression he will eventually put the pieces together.  People forget that some of the greats took years before they truly found their characters. 

[jump]

12 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

 

 I think theres also an argument to be made that Punk and Bryan connected with the converted, but I'm not sure that either would be classified as big draw.

 

Eh? Punk & Bryan were both big merch sellers even outdoing Cena and the Summer of Punk & the Yes Movement gained more mainstream attention than the likes of the Streak, John Stewart pissing about at Summerslam and Sting debuting.

 

Anyone else think Reigns will be fucked when actually gets the title? They have thrown everything into hin being an underdog and getting over by using up a good chunk of the roster that when they finally do make him a champ and the face of the company there wont be much left to do.

[The Nal]

2 minutes ago, jump said:

Anyone else think Reigns will be fucked when actually gets the title? They have thrown everything into hin being an underdog and getting over by using up a good chunk of the roster that when they finally do make him a champ and the face of the company there wont be much left to do.

Yeah they'll have to turn him heel like they did with the Rock. Vince has a real issue with creating babyface champions, always has done. If its not a Hulk Hogan/Lex Lugar/Cena flag waving "USA USA" type character he really doesn't know what to do. The other great babyface champs have basically just played themselves and Vince has had fuck all to do with it.