The Dirty Independence Question

[Comfy Bean]

"I am sure that it would be in Scotland's interest to join Nato and to continue to anchor our own defence in a wider alliance of Western democracies.

"But I am also in no doubt that the other 28 Nato allies would see it in their interests to welcome an independent Scotland into Nato.

"No ally would wish to interrupt the integrated Nato defence arrangements in the North Sea and North Atlantic - least of all at a time of heightened tension with Russia.

"A democratic, non-nuclear Scotland with strong military and technological traditions would fit naturally alongside similar Nato members in Northern Europe, and would be likely to join them - and the UK - in looking for multinational solutions to the pressures on their defence budgets."

Just another opinion folks....... full article here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29045528

[Comfy Bean]

Doubt we will all agree with this but a couple of interesting points. Noticed he`s let slip YES are " winning ". The polling companies will be mad

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/04/scottish-independence-5-reasons-yes-winning-polls?CMP=twt_gu

[Comfy Bean]

More bad news...........how will we cope if we are burdened with yet more of the stuff and what will Sir Ian say ?

http://www.cityam.com/1409541753/blackstone-500m-north-sea-investment

[Comfy Bean]

A more serious point on the oil stuff. After this is over, if .......YES win, I have already " guessed " that Osborne`s first call will be to the markets to explain he was only playing party politics about the CU. I reckon his 2nd will need to be to the Oil Companies as he has been talking down their business(s) for months now. How can they expect to attract investment / protect jobs etc with all this talk of the oil running out. I though the job of government was to support jobs and industry or is this all more party politics ? Shameful scenes.

[LJS]

Queens Park?

Well done

If there was a prize you would have won it

[LJS]

Google is my friend. They do play at Hampden.

'mon the spiders. We supplied the entire Scotlan team for the 1st Scotland v England international.

[LJS]

So apparently tomorrow's yougov poll in the Sunday Times is 51 yes 49 no (dks excluded)

Oh & look

"Scots to be offered radical new deal in bid to save the union"

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/06/scots-radical-new-deal-save-the-union

I wonder why they'd never mentioned it before.

[Comfy Bean]

http://youtu.be/dbW_AT64m8E

Thought this was pretty clever. Maybe it`s the drink !!! or that glimmer of hope I have now that this could actually happen.....long way to go though but anyway for some reason this video really hit the mark and got me thinking that YES might take a few votes right at the last possible moment. Imagine a " soft " no voter with the pencil in hand standing in the booth just a split second away from marking their cross....................

" SHOULD SCOTLAND BE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY "

Someone somewhere will see that and pause :

SHOULD SCOTLAND BE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY........ and think for the first time YES we should

I hope !!

[LJS]

Yet that is your very proposal.... Talk about fucking deluded...

Would you not call banishing the second most strategic weapon system in the NUCLEAR club NATO some what "interrupting".... The first being the American system....

Your CV for entering is some what flawed from the moment you submit it....

You do understand NATO without nuclear weapons is almost entirely pointless....

I'be been campaigning against nuclear weapons for 40 years.

However I live in the real world & I'm sure NATO will keep its nukes when we become independent.

& Barry if rUK wants to keep them then you can. Quite why Scotland should uniquely be required to house them, no one had ever explained to me!

& if NATO says they don't want us. That'll be fine by me. I suspect however rUK might prefer their neighbours to be in rather than out.

[LJS]

http://youtu.be/dbW_AT64m8E

Thought this was pretty clever. Maybe it`s the drink !!! or that glimmer of hope I have now that this could actually happen.....long way to go though but anyway for some reason this video really hit the mark and got me thinking that YES might take a few votes right at the last possible moment. Imagine a " soft " no voter with the pencil in hand standing in the booth just a split second away from marking their cross....................

" SHOULD SCOTLAND BE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY "

Someone somewhere will see that and pause :

SHOULD SCOTLAND BE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY........ and think for the first time YES we should

I hope !!

Good to see you getting your optimism back.

I really believe this can happen. Make no mistake there will be an unrelenting attack from the UK establishment from now until polling day but I think they may have left it too late.

[Comfy Bean]

So apparently tomorrow's yougov poll in the Sunday Times is 51 yes 49 no (dks excluded)

Oh & look

"Scots to be offered radical new deal in bid to save the union"

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/06/scots-radical-new-deal-save-the-union

I wonder why they'd never mentioned it before.

Wait till you see tomorrows front page of the mail on sunday - don`t know how to post image thingy.

Milliband : We`ll put gaurds on Scottish border !!!!!!!!!!!

new poll reveals vote is on a knife edge.

BT don`t seem to realise that all this shit is working against them, There campaign is a shambles and where is Darling ?

[Comfy Bean]

Yet that is your very proposal.... Talk about fucking deluded...

Would you not call banishing the second most strategic weapon system in the NUCLEAR club NATO some what "interrupting".... The first being the American system....

Your CV for entering is some what flawed from the moment you submit it....

You do understand NATO without nuclear weapons is almost entirely pointless....

When we debated ? this before mate I explained that I was with New Zealand on the nuclear weapon question - feel free to check back.. I also agree with Patrick Harvie that a YES vote ( being supported by CND ) will put Trident on top of the ruk agenda and we ( in Scotland ) would be right behind the good folks in England who may well say lets not be bothering with re-newing Trident. Both morally and financially lets get rid. One step at at time and all that but I think the general public in England will have something to say although I agreed with Neil that Westminster will want to keep Trident at any cost.

I only posted the article as proof that there are a lot of " opinions " going about on NATO EU CU OIL. I call them opinions or guesses, others portray them as facts.

[Comfy Bean]

Good to see you getting your optimism back.

I really believe this can happen. Make no mistake there will be an unrelenting attack from the UK establishment from now until polling day but I think they may have left it too late.

I`ve always thought it would be 60/40 NO. I really hope I`m wrong mate. Did you watch that video earlier with the young girl doing the commentary and talking about the younger ( than us ) generation. Really got me going, excellent stuff I thought.

If your footy lot ever get promoted I`ll buy you a pint by the Ayrshire seaside !

Assuming we don`t get relegated... then it`s your round !

[Comfy Bean]

The only fact for sure is your boys wanting to hurt the current capability of NATO while wanting to be members while telling everyone the rest of the members of NATO are going to be all loved up about Scottish membership.

Madness

Fair enough - we disagree. The leader of the Scottish Tories is on your side mate. In the live stv debate the other night she was nodding furiously in agreement with an army fella in the audience who claimed that russia would be marching on our borders. Patrick Harvie`s face was a picture. Classic stuff.

[Comfy Bean]

rUK will keep nuclear weapons. The vocal minority will scream its a waste of money very loudly but ultimately the political will is there, the yanks will be making it clear it has to happen, and I think the majority of the UK public will be fine with it. Most the right leaning press will be in favour of it.

I think I agree with every word of that. Doesn`t make it right though.

The Scottish Government have stood up to pressure from the Yanks ( and Dave ) quite recently and didn`t bow to their demands. Thats another story though but we told them to keep their nose out of our business. Politely of course. Dave and Westminster is a different story though when it comes to what Obama wants as you say.

[LJS]

You have been campaigning for 40 years but haven't taken time to read up why the current location is a good one ? ok....

By the way it might come to surprise that they are also stored in England...

If I'm morally opposed to them why would I give a flying fuck where the best place to put them is?

[LJS]

You expressed an interest in wanting to know... Ask yourself why you expressed an interest...

If you are morally opposed then I guess you will campaigning to stay out of NATO post independence ?

Ultimately you will be voting to give Salmond a mandate you are morally opposed to ?

I'm an idealistic realist. I'm relaxed about NATO membership!

[LJS]

40 years campaigning ? Morally opposed ? But relaxed about being a member of a nuclear club

If ever we needed a perfect example of how deluded the average yes voter is this would be it

Whether Scotland is a member of NATO or not will make absolutely no difference to the number of nuclear weapons in the world. All I can do is campaign to have them out of my country which I have done consistently when my country was the UK. If my country is Scotland I will continue to do so.

Now Barry, tell me all the good things about the UK having weapons of mass destruction.

[LJS]

You don't get what being a member of NATO means.... If you are a member you WILL still have nukes on your soil / waters... 100% guaranteed....

How many NATO countries have nukes on their soil, Barry?

& I will repeat that I don't personally give a toss if Scotland is in NATO or not.

I have no great interest in these matters but I thought Scotland occupied some sort of strategically important position so NATO might want us in.

But if I'm wrong, then we'll take our chances outside NATO. Leaving ourselves wide open to attacks from....who exactly?

[LJS]

No war between super powers since WW2 ?

Yeah the UK's nukes achieved that!

What planet are you on Barry?

[LJS]

The uk's nukes are like a sad old man with an e type jag!

Look how big my weapon is girls!

[LJS]

Name the last war between super powers? The cold war doesn't count

Well done ...totally ignored my question

[LJS]

The threats will remain the same but you can leave it to others to wipe your arse...

Lets be frank... A long with a proposed currency union and the nuclear issue, your whole stance on independence is letting others wipe your arse...

Your like the 30 year old man child who just won't leave home!

Barry, you seem to have a bit of an anal fixation.

I believe there are websites available which will cater for your desires.

Edited September 6, 2014 by LJS

[eFestivals]

no, no, no, no

You will struggle to find me saying anything about Scots being better in any way than anyone else.

and yet I've had a lot of laughter over many pages at your various claims of Scottish exceptionalism.

You know, like I did just yesterday with your claims that Scotland is less racist than England.

Edited September 7, 2014 by eFestivals

[LJS]

Reading the observer & listening to George Osborne, it looks like they are effectively putting devo max on the ballot paper.

Odd that?