Jump to content

The Dirty Independence Question


Kyelo
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Comfy Bean said:

Or ....the Tories support around their policies and priorities up here puts them way behind Labour and the SNP ?

who knows. I don't much care.

But I do remember when you used to claim Scotland was a tory-free zone. How did that myth work out for you?

I once pointed out that all the tories were still there, they were just voting differently "because Scotland" - just like you.

And now here you are highlighting the tories you said didn't exist. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

If we had Indy it could be a straight fight between Labour and the SNP with the Tories getting Ukip style numbers up here.

So now it's after indy that Scotland will be that tory free zone?

Care to say how come your latest myth about no tories in Scotland is better than your last myth about no tories in Scotland?

Could I tempt you to look at some polling that demonstrates beyond all doubt that political opinions in Scotland are not meaningfully different to the rest of the UK (tho of course there's always some different local factors in any locality)?

I doubt I can. You've been swerving inconvenient facts for years and I doubt you'll be changing now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

who knows. I don't much care.

But I do remember when you used to claim Scotland was a tory-free zone. How did that myth work out for you?

I once pointed out that all the tories were still there, they were just voting differently "because Scotland" - just like you.

And now here you are highlighting the tories you said didn't exist. :lol:

None of this makes much sense mate.

Of course there is support for the Tories up here. You will be unable to quote me saying otherwise so that takes out half your post.

I think you do care but it’s transparent that you are not pleased with the latest poll LJS posted which sees Labour back in front of the Tories.

My point was only that we are seeing the Tories return to their natural position as also rans up here now that we’re back in day job territory. All round Scotland folks are finding out what it means to have a Tory councillor. I already conceded that that support will sit dormant but can be called upon by the Conservative and Unionist party as required.

If we had voted Indy, we would be looking at Labour or Snp Governments instead of decades of Tory rule. Fair enough not everyone sees this as a good thing....clearly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

Could I tempt you to look at some polling that demonstrates beyond all doubt that political opinions in Scotland are not meaningfully different to the rest of the UK (tho of course there's always some different local factors in any locality)?

I doubt I can. You've been swerving inconvenient facts for years and I doubt you'll be changing now. 

No need for polling chief.

In a recent eu ref, all 32 regions of Scotland no matter urban or rural voted to remain in the European Union. You know how that turned out :-(

In a recent GE the folk living in Scotland didn’t vote to have a Tory Government. You know how that turned out :-(

If you want polling, LJS just posted about the Tories being returned to their natural position as also rans up here behind the Snp and Labour.

You we’re making these no difference claims at the last election when the Tories got one seat so I appreciate your not for turning. Bizarrely you claim to agree with Scotland on the eu and the Tories so no idea why you aren’t pleased with the latest polls. 

I suspect you are inventing this myth garbage as a deflection away from the poll results or a blip as you call it.

How you getting on with that quote of me saying there were no Tories living in Scotland lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

Of course there is support for the Tories up here. You will be unable to quote me saying otherwise so that takes out half your post.

but I can quote you minimalising them, no different to the 'more pandas' thing ... but it turns out they're less minimal than you suggest.

 

49 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

All round Scotland folks are finding out what it means to have a Tory councillor.

Really? Does everyone have their councillor round for tea up there, or something?

I mean, I know people like to moan about their local council - whoever makes up that council - but beyond that it doesn't make a huge amount of difference who the parties are.

They're gifted with a huge chunk of money by parliament to put alongside the money they know is going to be raised locally, and their job is to spend it - and it gets spent on the same things in all places.

Perhaps your big council are fucking over the little councils they don't like? It wouldn't be the first time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

In a recent eu ref, all 32 regions of Scotland no matter urban or rural voted to remain in the European Union. You know how that turned out :-(

in a recent lifetime, it was well known that many consequences didn't reach certain places, in order to find less reaction to those consequences.

That's probably a bit deep for you, so I'll also give you a more simple version.

And that's that your big Scottish difference is just one in ten people, and not a big difference at all.

If you like, it makes Scotland 90% just like the English and just 10% different. Which isn't very different at all, is it?

Yet Scotland doesn't have 90% of the negative consequences of the EU that England has, so it might be reasonably suggested that Scottish attitudes are actually worse.

Oh dear. :lol:

 

42 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

In a recent GE the folk living in Scotland didn’t vote to have a Tory Government. You know how that turned out :-(

Yep, with more toiries in Scotland giving the tories power at westminster.

It was as much your fault as anyone elses. Unless scotland is no longer part of the UK? cos there's only the UK and not Scotland, that's what the gods of self-determination said (and you said they're not to be questioned, remember? :P)

 

42 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

If you want polling, LJS just posted about the Tories being returned to their natural position as also rans up here behind the Snp and Labour.

at a point it doesn't matter. :rolleyes:

Hey, in that world that doesn't matter Scotland wants indy sometimes too. How's the indy going? :lol:

 

42 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

You we’re making these no difference claims at the last election when the Tories got one seat so I appreciate your not for turning. Bizarrely you claim to agree with Scotland on the eu and the Tories so no idea why you aren’t pleased with the latest polls. 

Why would I be pleased with the meaningless?

And why would you be daft enough to think I might be, after i'd made a post to point out that it's meaningless?

 

42 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

I suspect you are inventing this myth garbage as a deflection away from the poll results or a blip as you call it.

The inventing myths part is down to you and your mates.

Cos it turns out there's more tories than pandas in Scotland after all.

 

42 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

How you getting on with that quote of me saying there were no Tories living in Scotland lol.

How's the counting pandas going?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

I note we are no longer discussing the return of the Tories to the ranks of the also rans :-)

no one was anyway. :rolleyes:

It's a poll at the time in the cycle when polls mean the least - just about nothing at all.

I could point out Jez-positive polls every day, but i'm not. Is that because i don't want the tories out or is it because I'm smart enough to recognise they mean very little?

Edited by eFestivals
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

Now, can you tell me what it means to have a tory councillor that people are apparently finding out?

 

Here`s an article from the other week with a few recent examples (8). I tried to pick a source that wasn`t the National as always. Pointless as it is....as always. Perhaps these were just blips.

Please spare me a response that includes the words " Corbyn " " IRA " " Dwarf " and " bagpipes " :)

I`ve accepted your rules of disqualifying anything to do with bin collections or the environment.

Dear Cllr, your not collecting my bins as often as you used to and you promised. It`s very smelly around here.

Dear sir, Hold your nose and remember the union :lol:

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/09/8-times-scottish-tories-resurrected-right-wing-gaffe-north-border

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked what you are trying to do with the statistics by the way. It may well be a bit deep for me but I`m glad we at least agree that 32 out of 32 was a fantastic result for the side we both support.

Next up you`ll be claiming that we should discount these results as we didn`t reach the magic number of 33. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Comfy Bean said:

I liked what you are trying to do with the statistics by the way. It may well be a bit deep for me but I`m glad we at least agree that 32 out of 32 was a fantastic result for the side we both support.

Next up you`ll be claiming that we should discount these results as we didn`t reach the magic number of 33. 

 

45 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yet Scotland doesn't have 90% of the negative consequences of the EU that England has, so it might be reasonably suggested that Scottish attitudes are actually worse.

 

:lol:

" Reasonably suggested "  :ph34r:

" Worse " :huh:

:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

Here`s an article from the other week with a few recent examples (8). I tried to pick a source that wasn`t the National as always. Pointless as it is....as always. Perhaps these were just blips.

Please spare me a response that includes the words " Corbyn " " IRA " " Dwarf " and " bagpipes " :)

I`ve accepted your rules of disqualifying anything to do with bin collections or the environment.

Dear Cllr, your not collecting my bins as often as you used to and you promised. It`s very smelly around here.

Dear sir, Hold your nose and remember the union :lol:

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/09/8-times-scottish-tories-resurrected-right-wing-gaffe-north-border

oh, the horror!

There's just one story in there about a councillor, and that's about a tory councillor parking in a disabled space.

You made a lovely grand claim (see below), and all you've found is that.

As I said, who gives a shit about councillors at that level? No one at all, apart from you in your myth factory. :lol:
 

On 10/14/2017 at 8:58 AM, Comfy Bean said:

All round Scotland folks are finding out what it means to have a Tory councillor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

I liked what you are trying to do with the statistics by the way. It may well be a bit deep for me but I`m glad we at least agree that 32 out of 32 was a fantastic result for the side we both support.

but it wasn't 32 out of 32.  Because that 32 means absolutely fuck all. There was no Scottish vote.

And that's because the god of self-determination dropped by Scotland where Scotland determined to be part of whole-UK decisions.

I remember some people round here who've been saying recently that the right of self-determination should is sacred, but suddenly it counts for nothing. How odd. :lol:

 

22 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

Next up you`ll be claiming that we should discount these results as we didn`t reach the magic number of 33. 

It seems to have passed you by that those results are discounted by everyone as utterly meaningless.

Meanwhile even your glorious leader no longer wants to stay in the EU.

And just a few years ago you were happy to vote Scotland out of the EU, and were encouraging people to do it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

oh, the horror!

There's just one story in there about a councillor, and that's about a tory councillor parking in a disabled space.

You made a lovely grand claim (see below), and all you've found is that.

As I said, who gives a shit about councillors at that level? No one at all, apart from you in your myth factory. :lol:
 

I disagree about not caring whether or not I have Tories making and influencing decisions that affect things locally around the Country.

As I said, people are finding out what giving the Tories the reigns up here means.

Perhaps we will see that reflected in polls. 

I didn’t expect those 8 things from the first article I found would bother you but it’s good to highlight Tory stuff to those not as blinkered.....in my opinion.

Its not all about the precious union but the Tories know their audience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/14/2017 at 10:06 AM, eFestivals said:

in a recent lifetime, it was well known that many consequences didn't reach certain places, in order to find less reaction to those consequences.

That's probably a bit deep for you, so I'll also give you a more simple version.

And that's that your big Scottish difference is just one in ten people, and not a big difference at all.

If you like, it makes Scotland 90% just like the English and just 10% different. Which isn't very different at all, is it?

Magnificent manipulation of statistics there, Neil. 

Of course you are right ... but you would also be right if you pointed to a 14% difference or a 28% difference.

They're all statistically correct. 

But if you want to argue that there is no significant difference between a 53-47% vote against & a 62-38% in favour vote, then carry on.

Just be honest enough to admit that you are twisting statistics to fit with your feeble argument.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, eFestivals said:

but it wasn't 32 out of 32.  Because that 32 means absolutely fuck all. There was no Scottish vote.

It was 32 out of 32. That is a fact. 

I thought you liked facts.

14 hours ago, eFestivals said:

And that's because the god of self-determination dropped by Scotland where Scotland determined to be part of whole-UK decisions.

Which doesn't alter in any way the FACT that 32 out of 32 local authority areas voted remain.

14 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I remember some people round here who've been saying recently that the right of self-determination should is sacred, but suddenly it counts for nothing. How odd. :lol:

Could you help me here? What on earth has self determination got to do with the perfectly reasonable expectation that a government should take account of differing views in different parts of the kingdom?

14 hours ago, eFestivals said:

It seems to have passed you by that those results are discounted by everyone as utterly meaningless.

Everyone? Really?

14 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Meanwhile even your glorious leader no longer wants to stay in the EU.

Christ, what are you on about now?

14 hours ago, eFestivals said:

And just a few years ago you were happy to vote Scotland out of the EU, and were encouraging people to do it.

 

Liar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, LJS said:

But if you want to argue that there is no significant difference between a 53-47% vote against & a 62-38% in favour vote, then carry on.

It's a good job I didn't argue that then. :)

And it's less of a good job that you had to resort to untruths again.

Meanwhile, the immigration impact spread of the EU is much larger than the small difference of opinion you've highlighted, which might suggest the very opposite to what you're trying to claim of that small difference of opinion.

It's certainly the case that social attitudes polling says something very different - VERY different - to what you're trying to pretend, but never mind, eh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, LJS said:

It was 32 out of 32. That is a fact. 

it was a UK vote. :rolleyes:

Why does the self-determination of Scotland count less to you than your screaming nut-job support of Catalonia? Care to say?

 

Quote

I thought you liked facts.

I do. Not only do I like them I use them in a consistent manner. See above. :)

 

Quote

Which doesn't alter in any way the FACT that 32 out of 32 local authority areas voted remain.

and Bristol voted remain more-so than anywhere in Scotland did. 

Guess what? Both mean fuck all in full context.

 

Quote

Could you help me here? What on earth has self determination got to do with the perfectly reasonable expectation that a government should take account of differing views in different parts of the kingdom?

Care to tell me which sovereign states operate different trade policies for each of their regions?

I've asked you this before and you ran away like a scared little boy.

Was that because the line you've given again there is sane or just your indementalist self coming thru yet again?

 

Quote

Liar.

PMSL :lol:

Yeah, you've never made a vote which would take Scotland out of the EU. :lol:

Next up, will you tell me again how the banks running south was a project fear lie, and then give me an explanation for why Catalonia's banks are different...? 

There's no jump you won't make to chase indy. In the EU, out the EU, in support of self-determination, against self-determination, etc, etc, etc.

Just a stream of lies, where the only constant is your want of indy. 

Edited by eFestivals
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

Ahh, I remember the days when Russy used to keep us informed of the latest oil price.

For some reason, he doesn't do that anymore.

 

Quote

 

Oil Price Briefly Reaches $70 as Buoyant Global Economy Bolsters Demand

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/business/energy-environment/oil-prices.html

 

 

 

Quote

 

Big banks raise oil price targets on strong demand and OPEC output cuts

  • Bank of America Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley raised forecasts for oil prices in 2018, while Goldman Sachs said there is growing risk that it will have to push up its targets.
  • The banks say global oil demand and OPEC-led production cuts have tightened an oversupplied market more quickly than they anticipated.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/16/banks-raise-oil-price-targets-on-strong-demand-and-opec-output-cuts.html

 

Hey Neil, please note before you go on your customary rant that I am aware that this price rise will not generate massive tax revenues under the current fiscal regime. It may well safeguard jobs though which is the main benefit of north sea (&Atlantic) oil to the Scottish economy.

 

Quote

 

Shell gives green light to first big North Sea project in 6 years

 

...https://www.ft.com/content/f56ddfb2-f9f9-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace167

 

 

 

Of course, we are all agreed that it would be much better if we all left the black stuff in the ground. As far as I can see no oil producing country is considering that option.

The only oil producing country that ever comes in for criticism from Neil for this is Scotland, which is also the only oil producing country that doesn't have the power to stop production. 

I wonder why that is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure Neil made a big song and dance about the dirty SNP robbing Scottish councils of money in their draft budget

I looked for it on this thread but as usual he  must have posted his SNP baaaad in some other irrelevant thread.

As he is well aware, both comfy & myself cast a vote for the Scottish greens. Here's what they have to say ahead of the budget vote.

Three key tests our MSPs will apply before deciding whether to support or oppose the Budget

https://greens.scot/news/three-key-tests-our-msps-will-apply-before-deciding-whether-to-support-or-oppose-the-budget

 

Isn't democracy great?

Maybe you guys should try it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, LJS said:

both comfy & myself cast a vote for the Scottish greens.

I'm loving how nowadays you only mention voting green.

There used to be a time when it was your other vote that you bragged about. Any reason for the swap? :lol:

Have you worked out that scexit you were supporting is 10 times the fuck-up that's brexit?

Edited by eFestivals
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...