The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

* Sighs * 

You think the best plan is to impoverish your nation by £10Bn pounds a year.

Care to tell me how that's wrong?

[Stash]

10 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I completely disagree that a Tory based in London is better placed to make decisions on Scotland than a Labour or SNP Govt running our show from Edinburgh. You are entitled to think otherwise. 

Hypothetical for you. Which is better, a UK Tory government in London, or a Scottish Tory government in Edinburgh?

[LJS]

18 hours ago, Stash said:

Hypothetical for you. Which is better, a UK Tory government in London, or a Scottish Tory government in Edinburgh?

Can I answer this?

 

Scottish Tory government much better.

 

1:Much less chance they went to Eton.

 

2: Ruth Davidson is much nicer than David Cameron.

 

3: Also much less chance of it happening.

 

We don't like Tories in Scotland.

 

[eFestivals]

4 hours ago, LJS said:

Can I answer this?

Scottish Tory government much better.

1:Much less chance they went to Eton.

2: Ruth Davidson is much nicer than David Cameron.

3: Also much less chance of it happening.

We don't like Tories in Scotland.

Flawed thinking. Laughable thinking.

Decisions are not better because of where the person is sat when they make that decision. If they were, that could only be because of something exceptional about where they were sat.

The best decision comes from the best consideration of the issue, which has absolutely fuck all to do with location.

You like exceptionalism in Scotland, but that just says how daft you are.

[Comfy Bean]

On 2/5/2016 at 8:07 AM, Stash said:

Hypothetical for you. Which is better, a UK Tory government in London, or a Scottish Tory government in Edinburgh?

Stash, why the need to ask me hypothetically ?!?!?!?

I`ve been answering this question for a while now on here as have others. It`s almost as if you don`t read my pots 

I suspect you are too busy trying to start an argument rather than make one.

" Should Scotland be an independent country " ? This is it.

Fair enough if you are soaking up Neil`s tin foil hat stuff around there wouldn`t have been elections as we would have been on our knees, national emergency etc. In the real word we weren`t voting on the SNP vision. We weren`t voting on what Cameron or Salmon wrongly predicted about the future around oil.

Some would argue that the SNP would be " dead " AFTER a YES vote. My view is that with their goal achieved they would certainly be looking to re-invent themselves but I also think they have already shown they are a party that can Govern. Others will disagree but we are looking at yet another term by margins that shouldn`t happen within our voting system.

I`ve said before that my best guess would be that the SNP would / will sweep to power in our first elections ( approx 8 weeeks in to indy ) but then it would be up to Labour to fight back and hold them to account. If the SNP don`t deliver then the working class folks in Scotland could return to Labour as quickly as they deserted them when they felt Labour were no longer representing them. The Unite Union leader has recently called on Scottish Labour to " apologies " to the working class people of Scotland. Why do you think he is saying this ?

In my view, Labour would be more likely to be holding an SNP Govt to account with Indy than we are seeing just now which would be a good thing.

Neil thinks that us Jocks should get back in our box. He wants Hollyrood shut down and all powers returned to London. The SNP are without question standing up for Scotland more than the current party in Westminster. Do you agree with that ?

Salmond, Sturgeon etc rile Neil so much because what they stand for and believe in goes against Scotland being run from England. Hence Neil`s SNP Bad forever attitude.

Scottish Labour are now allowing their guys to openly campaign for an independent Scotland which will hopefully speed up the process 

In my view Labour and Labour voters are they key. The Unite guy gave some stats around the number of members ( Unite and Labour ) who support independence and we know how the numbers are with the younger generations. Of course all of these people might be wrong.

 

 

 

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

In the real word we weren`t voting on the SNP vision.

In the real world that was the only option. The SNP gave you no choice about that.

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Flawed thinking. Laughable thinking.

Decisions are not better because of where the person is sat when they make that decision. If they were, that could only be because of something exceptional about where they were sat.

The best decision comes from the best consideration of the issue, which has absolutely fuck all to do with location.

You like exceptionalism in Scotland, but that just says how daft you are.

Oh Neil 

That old bulldog spirit lives strong in you. I suppose that`s why "we" know whats best for all the folks across Europe and in the Middle East. Looking back through our history you can see how we are able to make the best decisions for other folks from afar   

Nothing to do with location - we know best 

Rule Brittania, World Police etc...It explains why you want our parliament shut and " power " returned to London 

How you fixed on the nuclear weapons debate ?

[Comfy Bean]

Just now, eFestivals said:

In the real world that was the only option. The SNP gave you no choice about that.

 

 

Absolute rubbish and fine you know it. I won`t insult you by repeating the question we were asked.

It was the only question as you know.

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Neil thinks that us Jocks should get back in our box.

Comfy has nothing to support his viewpoint, so has to report to posting blatant lies.

I'd like Scots to fight for the country they're a part of, not fight for special privileges for their corner at the expense of everyone else.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Absolute rubbish and fine you know it.

care to show me the date for the scheduled elections between a yes vote and I-day?

What's rubbish is your claim that something else was available. Nothing was, there was only the SNP path to indy, and that would define the structure of your new country.

And we all know where that path would have led too. The proposed I-Day is fast approaching, but the funds to pay for the dream just aren't there.

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Comfy has nothing to support his viewpoint, so has to report to posting blatant lies.

I'd like Scots to fight for the country they're a part of, not fight for special privileges for their corner at the expense of everyone else.

How is supporting Indepence from rUK " fighting for special privileges " ?

Please be specific.

You want Hollyrood shut and all powers returned to London. I want the opposite. It`s not difficult.

I want Indepenence so that our Country can make decisions for itself and stand on it`s own feet.

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

How is supporting Indepence from rUK " fighting for special privileges " ?

Have you not looked at your country recently, comfy?

 

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Please be specific.

You want Hollyrood shut and all powers returned to London. I want the opposite. It`s not difficult.

You want to do stuff like cut corp tax to steal business from the rest of the UK.

You only care about bringing good onto yoursef, you don't give a shit about the consequences onto others.

You don't even care about the consequences onto others within your own country. How could you when you're happy to accept a cut £10Bn from Scottish public spending to achieve your dream?

 

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I want Indepenence so that our Country can make decisions for itself and stand on it`s own feet.

If you want it to stand on its own feet, why are obsessed with a version of indy where it's impossible for it to stand on its own feet?

 

[lost]

Not sure if this has been posted but noticed this in the telegraph this week, apparently oil revenue is down 99% on Salmonds prediction

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/12141257/Imagine-the-mess-an-independent-Scotland-would-be-in-right-now.html

[Comfy Bean]

3 hours ago, lost said:

Not sure if this has been posted but noticed this in the telegraph this week, apparently oil revenue is down 99% on Salmonds prediction

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/12141257/Imagine-the-mess-an-independent-Scotland-would-be-in-right-now.html

We knew the numbers but I hadn`t seen this article ( normally avoid the telegraph ). My favourite bit was to try and plug the finances gap we could " release every prisoner " 

Neil will be along to point out it`s not about the oil price and in the interest of balance I`ll post some lines from the Unionist side that were also wide of the mark. As we have seen, the oil price is down the stank but support for Scotland to run it`s own affairs continues to grow. Salmond was wrong about the oil. Dave was wrong about the oil. Who knew ?!

Perhaps some on both sides voted with greed for oil money. I know I have been accused of that on here often enough. Those folks were obviously wrong but as I said earlier, support hasn`t vanished like snow off a dyke.

Not everyone wants things run from London where we know the Tories look like they will be in charge for more and more years.

HUNDREDS of billions of pounds worth of North Sea oil and gas revenues will be at risk if Scotland votes for independence, David Cameron will warn today as he brings the UK Cabinet north of the Border for only the third time in its history.

At a meeting in Aberdeen, ministers will agree to fast-track proposals experts say could unlock up to £200 billion in reserves over the next 20 years.

The Coalition Government will insist the windfall - which could see household energy bills drop - is only possible with the resources of a united UK.

The plans will also help safeguard the 450,000 jobs in the oil and gas industry in Britain, Downing Street believes.

[russycarps]

4 hours ago, lost said:

Not sure if this has been posted but noticed this in the telegraph this week, apparently oil revenue is down 99% on Salmonds prediction

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/12141257/Imagine-the-mess-an-independent-Scotland-would-be-in-right-now.html

Chilling reading indeed.

Every single person who voted yes should be made to read that, then offer a full and frank apology to the no voters.

Thank God sanity prevailed!

[LJS]

4 minutes ago, russycarps said:

Chilling reading indeed.

Every single person who voted yes should be made to read that, then offer a full and frank apology to the no voters.

Thank God sanity prevailed!

It's oilycarps...

[LJS]

13 hours ago, LJS said:

Can I answer this?

 

Scottish Tory government much better.

 

1:Much less chance they went to Eton.

 

2: Ruth Davidson is much nicer than David Cameron.

 

3: Also much less chance of it happening.

 

We don't like Tories in Scotland.

 

 

8 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Flawed thinking. Laughable thinking.

Decisions are not better because of where the person is sat when they make that decision. If they were, that could only be because of something exceptional about where they were sat.

The best decision comes from the best consideration of the issue, which has absolutely fuck all to do with location.

You like exceptionalism in Scotland, but that just says how daft you are.

no sense of humour today, Neil?

 

Of course technically where decision makers sit is not relevant although their knowledge of local conditions & circumstances is important so I'd rather they were sitting nearer rather than further. 

 

I'd also rather they weren't being led astray by the cesspit that is Westminster. 

[eFestivals]

21 hours ago, lost said:

Not sure if this has been posted but noticed this in the telegraph this week, apparently oil revenue is down 99% on Salmonds prediction

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/12141257/Imagine-the-mess-an-independent-Scotland-would-be-in-right-now.html

It's actually negative revenues from oil at the moment. A greater amount is being refunded to oil extractors on their previously paid taxes on profits than is being newly taken as extraction taxes.

[eFestivals]

18 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Neil will be along to point out it`s not about the oil price and in the interest of balance I`ll post some lines from the Unionist side that were also wide of the mark.

But nothing of that 'unionist side' was reliant on oil for 16% of it's revenues.

I see you only do mis-representation, so that you can keep up a pretence based on lies.

 

18 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Salmond was wrong about the oil. Dave was wrong about the oil. Who knew ?!

Salmond did.

But he didn't care about dragging Scotland into poverty.

And you're too stupid to see it.

 

18 hours ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Not everyone wants things run from London where we know the Tories look like they will be in charge for more and more years.

You don't want things run from London, but you're absolutely desperate for London's money.

After all, a Scotland with £10Bn less to spend would be what? Fucked is what.

But let's just keep on repeating Dave's words like they mean something against Salmond's plan to take Scotlland into poverty, just to show the world how few braincells work.

 

[eFestivals]

15 hours ago, LJS said:

I'd also rather they weren't being led astray by the cesspit that is Westminster. 

would that be the same cesspit you're desperate to give you other people's money?

Would that be the same cesspit where the SNP didn't ask for FFA but where you believe they did do because the SNP have fallen in the cesspit and so lie to you?

Even tho the SNP have fallen into the cesspit, there was no need for you to follow them and end up eating your own shit.

You could, after all, just read their supposed  (snigger) FFA proposal, to see that they're liars and you've swallowed their lies. But I guess that's a bit of an intelligent thinking-man's thing to do, which requires acceptance of facts, and you refuse to do facts.

[eFestivals]

 

we do know what kind of a future he promised. More generous pensions, a fairer education system, protection from welfare cuts – all bankrolled by huge oil revenues which the SNP expected to come flooding in from the North Sea.

Apparently, no one voted for this, Certainly not comfy.

Comfy won't say what he thinks he was voting for instead tho.

I wonder why?

 

[eFestivals]

and I've got to say, I'm loving this photo...

I'm not sure I've ever seen anything so creepy.

 

[eFestivals]

It’s not that Scotland couldn’t be independent; it’s just that the price would be austerity on scale seldom attempted in Europe

Here's what the yes-ers *REALLY* voted for.

If they can't see that's what they really voted for, the problem is within the intelligence of those people.

[LJS]

What's with the unattributed quotes today neil?

 

Edit: it's Fraser Nelson in the Telegraph. That explains why your quotes are unattributed.

Edited February 7, 2016 by LJS

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

What's with the unattributed quotes today neil?

Edit: it's Fraser Nelson in the Telegraph. That explains why your quotes are unattributed.

They're from the article that russy pasted a link to. I worked on the basis that you'd have read it, and with my posts following within  a page of it I didn't need to reference.

As for who the source is, that means nothing towards the truth that may or may not have been written. He's pointing out all the bullshit that left Salmond's mouth, and he's accurate with that.

You meanwhile attack the messenger. They're not the words of someone indy, so they can be dismissed.

That's how moronic your intellectual take of the debate now is.

Would Scotland now be in the very deepest shit if it had voted indy? Without any doubts at all. HUGE cuts onto Scotland at the behest of Scotland, making the tories look like cash cows.

But let's just forget about that, and mindlessly play the man because you can't deal with the message.