38 replies to this topic

[harderfaster]

Just about to sign up to VM broadband and I was wondering if anybody would recommend (against) it?

Also, I noticed this:

http://shop.virginme...t-a-friend.html

£50 off your bill if you want to recommend it to me? PM if you wanted to!

[Barry Fish]

harderfaster, on 23 August 2011 - 09:35 AM, said:

Just about to sign up to VM broadband and I was wondering if anybody would recommend (against) it?

Also, I noticed this:

http://shop.virginme...t-a-friend.html

£50 off your bill if you want to recommend it to me? PM if you wanted to!

Had them for about 10 years...  Fast and reliable...  The one time it failed they came out in about 24-48 hours and fixed it...

I have the 50mb service (I get an average of 48mb when connected via Ethernet cable) and it is awesome and destroys BT woeful offering...

Edited by Barry Fish, 23 August 2011 - 09:39 AM.

[eFestivals]

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 09:38 AM, said:

I have the 50mb service (I get an average of 48mb when connected via Ethernet cable) and it is awesome and destroys BT woeful offering...

it depends which BT offering you're talking about, as the contention ratio* and who exactly a user 'shares' their bandwidth with are what counts the most for anyone's download speed.

The one thing that, I think, VM does blow the competition away on is upload speed - or at least it should. Being cable it's able to run a synchronous service where upload speed matches the download speed, which isn't possible on asynchronous ADSL. But few people use the upload side of things for much (I'd have more cause than most, but it's rare it's a problem for me), so that's an irrelevance for most people.

(* the standard contention ratio for all broadband services is 50:1 - so if you're unlucky enough to share your service with 49 other heavy users you'll have a shit download speed. Business Broadband from BT has a contention ratio of 20:1, and there's a VERY noticeable difference in speed over the standard 'home' offering.)

Edited by eFestivals, 23 August 2011 - 09:48 AM.

[Barry Fish]

eFestivals, on 23 August 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

it depends which BT offering you're talking about, as the contention ratio* and who exactly a user 'shares' their bandwidth with are what counts the most for anyone's download speed.

The one thing that, I think, VM does blow the competition away on is upload speed - or at least it should. Being cable it's able to run a synchronous service where upload speed matches the download speed, which isn't possible on asynchronous ADSL. But few people use the upload side of things for much (I'd have more cause than most, but it's rare it's a problem for me), so that's an irrelevance for most people.

(* the standard contention ratio for all broadband services is 50:1 - so if you're unlucky enough to share your service with 49 other heavy users you'll have a shit download speed. Business Broadband from BT has a contention ratio of 20:1, and there's a VERY noticeable difference in speed over the standard 'home' offering.)

You can get up 100mb with Virgin  (Fastest BT service is 40mb and then I challenge anyone to show they are actually getting that speed)....

Virgin service does not suffer from the contention ratio as much as BT seem to...  I hear of very few people complaining they can't get the speeds out of Virgin.

There is a very big reason why Virgin want companies to publish the real download speeds there users are getting instead of the maximum possible.  Virgin wins on both counts...

Upload speeds are great...  I get a constant 4mb upload stream with mine...  and its going up to 5mb soon...

EDIT:  Just checked...  Its been enabled   Will give it a test tonight

Edited by Barry Fish, 23 August 2011 - 10:11 AM.

[Greeny_Musicchild]

I've had no problems with them. Even had to use their customer service for the first time a few weeks ago and it all went fine. I pay for (up to) 30mb and I get it most of the time.

If you want I'll recommend you, I could use saving £50!

Edited by Greeny_Musicchild, 23 August 2011 - 10:00 AM.

[Barry Fish]

I know its a Virgin link but the data is from OFCOM...

http://shop.virginme...le-network.html

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I've used them for a few years now and haven't had a single problem.

[Barry Fish]

eFestivals, on 23 August 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

But few people use the upload side of things

Lots of people have started using online backup services for their photos, videos etc.  You get a free and unlimited one with Virgin on certain packages.

You notice it also while playing online games..

Upload speeds will be a bigger and bigger deal in years to come I feel.  But its always going to be more about the download speed overall.

Edited by Barry Fish, 23 August 2011 - 10:19 AM.

[eFestivals]

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

You can get up 100mb with Virgin  (Fastest BT service is 40mb and then I challenge anyone to show they are actually getting that speed)....

You get a 100Mb line with Virgin. Unless the other 49 people you share that line with have all died, you don't stand a shit in hell's chance of actually getting 100Mb.

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

Virgin service does not suffer from the contention ratio as much as BT seem to...  I hear of very few people complaining they can't get the speeds out of Virgin.

There's 49 other people sharing everyone's service. If you don't hear of problems then that can be for any number of reasons, absolutely nothing to do with "Virgin service does not suffer from the contention ratio as much as BT seem to".

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

There is a very big reason why Virgin want companies to publish the real download speeds there users are getting instead of the maximum possible.  Virgin wins on both counts...

they do, as fibre optics are hugely better than copper.

But from the numbers I've seen (a while back now, but it's unlikely that anything has changed very much) VM users suffer a greater proportional fall from that top-line figure than just about all the offerings that run on the BT network - but that's an average, and things will vary with each person's connection dependent on what load the others sharing the service are putting on that service.

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

Upload speeds are great...  I get a constant 4mb upload stream with mine...  and its going up to 5mb soon...

PMSL at VM not knowing what the f**k they're doing. If that's all you're getting then they're running an asynchronous service and so only giving their customers 10%* of the upload speed that they could have.
(* based on the numbers you've yourself given).

[eFestivals]

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 10:18 AM, said:

Lots of people have started using online backup services for their photos, videos etc.  You get a free and unlimited one with Virgin on certain packages.

true. But it's a crap idea IMO, as the possibility of that backup service failing is greater than with a personal disk for backing up. Plus, some of us don't like giving our data away; for some, security is everything, not nothing.

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 10:18 AM, said:

You notice it also while playing online games..

you're having a laugh. There's no human-detectable difference in speed once you get beyond a certain threshold. The uploaded packets from gaming are tiny.

There is a difference in speed, but you'd only know of it via electronic measuring.

[Barry Fish]

I just posted a link to prove your bullshit wrong Neil...

http://shop.virginme...le-network.html

Ofcom think you talk shit for a starter...

Edited by Barry Fish, 23 August 2011 - 11:32 AM.

[Barry Fish]

eFestivals, on 23 August 2011 - 10:56 AM, said:

true. But it's a crap idea IMO, as the possibility of that backup service failing is greater than with a personal disk for backing up. Plus, some of us don't like giving our data away; for some, security is everything, not nothing.

You dipstick...  Off site backup is about having the data in more than one place...  You still persist your local copy...

As for security you trade off the risks againsts the risks of having a fire / theft which could result in you losing a lot of stuff you wouldn't like to lose...

Edited by Barry Fish, 23 August 2011 - 11:36 AM.

[eFestivals]

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:

You dipstick...  Off site backup is about having the data in more than one place...  You still persist your local copy...

As for security you trade off the risks againsts the risks of having a fire / theft which could result in you losing a lot of stuff you wouldn't like to lose...

I've been properly trained in how to do safe backups, matey. You don't get paid £100K+ pa for knowing shit.

[Barry Fish]

eFestivals, on 23 August 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

I've been properly trained in how to do safe backups, matey. You don't get paid £100K+ pa for knowing shit.

Yet you miss the bleeding obvious in your post...  Congratulations...

Who paid you £100k pa + ?  I smell bullshit  

Man goes from £100K pa to National Minimum Wage...  Quite a story...

Edited by Barry Fish, 23 August 2011 - 11:57 AM.

[eFestivals]

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

I just posted a link to prove your bullshit wrong Neil...

http://shop.virginme...le-network.html

Ofcom think you talk shit for a starter...

I think you need a reading lesson. Try reading what I posted again.

I read your link after I'd made that post, and did consider going back and editing it - but as I'd put what I'd said in the correct context I didn't bother.

Where I did get it wrong was with saying "it's unlikely that anything has changed very much" - it's of course the case that the speeds available have increased by far more than the usage, causing the proportional fall from the top-figure speed to decrease. I should have joined up the dots better than I did do.

There's also another factor which has caused the VM service to improve very significantly over recent years. It was the case that the laws the govt passed to encourage the cabling of the UK meant that the small (in comparison to the one nationwide company we have now) companies scrimped where they could - which was on the equipment attached to the cables, as there were few other possibilities. They bought the cheapest shittest stuff they could, so that their investment was at the minimum, pretty sure that they'd be someone like NTL to buy them out a few years down the line (which is of course what happened). As NTL (and then VM) patched those separate services into one big system, and with the upgrades for faster speed over those years, that shit equipment has been replaced, leading to a more robust system with fewer hardware failures (as well as better backup systems).

It's probably now the case that VM are the clear leader from all angles except with service in the case of a fault - from my own experiences BT blow them away (tho that might be limited to business customers, I'm not sure). I had the power supply on my router fail last week, and I had a replacement delivered at my door within about 15 minutes of getting off the phone to BT.

[eFestivals]

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 11:56 AM, said:

Yet you miss the bleeding obvious in your post...  Congratulations...

just because I didn't post "and take the backups off-site" doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It's your presumption - wrong as ever - that I only have a "local copy".

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 11:56 AM, said:

Who paid you £100k pa + ?  I smell bullshit  

Man goes from £100K pa to National Minimum Wage...  Quite a story...

A number of blue-chips, who still come back to me now - there's not a year of the last 12 (when I've worked for myself) when I've not had at least one job offer in excess of £100k.

What you're failing to grasp is that for some of us money is not everything. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. There's only so many years of working with w*nkers I could stand.

Care to tell me how many world-firsts you've got to your name for your technical achievements? I've only got one, but one big enough to justify that sort of pay-packet. Google and you shall find.

Edited by eFestivals, 23 August 2011 - 12:16 PM.

[Barry Fish]

eFestivals, on 23 August 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

It's probably now the case that VM are the clear leader from all angles except with service in the case of a fault - from my own experiences BT blow them away (tho that might be limited to business customers, I'm not sure). I had the power supply on my router fail last week, and I had a replacement delivered at my door within about 15 minutes of getting off the phone to BT.

That very much is because you are a business customer...  I have no idea how good Virgin are as a business provider...  Retail has been fine...  48 hour to restore my service was more than acceptable after my old modem was fried via electrical storm...

Nice that you admitted you was finally talking bullshit though...

Edited by Barry Fish, 23 August 2011 - 12:20 PM.

[Barry Fish]

eFestivals, on 23 August 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

just because I didn't post "and take the backups off-site" doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It's your presumption - wrong as ever - that I only have a "local copy".


A number of blue-chips, who still come back to me now - there's not a year of the last 12 (when I've worked for myself) when I've not had at least one job offer in excess of £100k.

What you're failing to grasp is that for some of us money is not everything. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. There's only so many years of working with w*nkers I could stand.

Care to tell me how many world-firsts you've got to your name for your technical achievements? I've only got one, but one big enough to justify that sort of pay-packet. Google and you shall find.

Your a big mixed bag Neil...  You slam people who earn those amounts while you have taken the money for yourself...  Its the same mixed bag you talk about when it comes to business and taking advantage...

As for Worlds First...  I know of one I was involved in, but not one I could take direct credit for as it was a team achievement...  Talking in the sort of name in the papers type thing...  Although my name wasn't...  the company was...

Working in the software field most things I do are "world firsts" because what's the point in writing software that already exists...

Edited by Barry Fish, 23 August 2011 - 12:23 PM.

[sifi]

eFestivals, on 23 August 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

A number of blue-chips, who still come back to me now - there's not a year of the last 12 (when I've worked for myself) when I've not had at least one job offer in excess of £100k.

100k in central London isn't a massive wage these days.  I know that sounds sick, but the average wage where I work is 75k.

In Virgin Media related news, I've been using their bog standard 10MB, freeview and phone package for £30 a month now for years, and tend to get 10MB download speeds or more, and whenever I have had any kind of hardware problem, it's fixed within 24 hours.

Edited by sifi, 23 August 2011 - 12:43 PM.

[eFestivals]

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

Your a big mixed bag Neil...  You slam people who earn those amounts while you have taken the money for yourself...  Its the same mixed bag you talk about when it comes to business and taking advantage...

I did what I did, then I wised up. It's nothing unusual or strange, even if not chasing every shiny penny is beyond your own limited comprehension.

Barry Fish, on 23 August 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

As for Worlds First...  I know of one I was involved in, but not one I could take direct credit for as it was a team achievement...  Talking in the sort of name in the papers type thing...  Although my name wasn't...  the company was...

Working in the software field most things I do are "world firsts" because what's the point in writing software that already exists...

writing software is in nearly all cases merely re-inventing the wheel. I very much doubt that there's any thing you've ever done in software that hasn't been done previously by someone else, tho perhaps in a different way.

That was certainly the case with what I did, tho I chose a very different path from the obvious windoze, and opened up a whole new income stream for IBM as a result. As far as I'm aware it's not something that lasted for them - tho amusingly it was killed off by the unimaginative programmers, the same ones who are today urging software writers to revert back to much the same idea I implemented about 15 years ago.

The computer world is so short-term in its outlook that it's highly amusing - I can see things going round the same loop with developments now that it's already done twice before. And more than that, it's making all of the exact same mistakes as it made in those two previous cycles, because know-nothing* kids are the ones driving things.
(* 'know-nothing' about the history of computer developments so that they're able to avoid the same mistakes).