31 replies to this topic

[504329lt]

Whoever dreamt up that system needs to have a serious rethink.

I fail to see how moving people off a wide well drained path (the railway track) onto a narrow muddy path makes things safer.  When Flogging Molly ended on The Avalon on Saturday night, it was dangerous to leave the site due to the streams of people walking along the path just north of Avalon.

This combined with the boneheads on every exit created an atmosphere that I have never seen at Glatonbury before.

The programme was explicit in that this system was there for access to Arcadia, Block 9, and Shranglia.  Why is it that after 11 you are now unable to cross from Avalon to Croissant Neuf or the Craft Fields etc without going all the way round?

The whole thing is in complete contradiction to the spirit of Glastonbury. Avalon and the fields to the south of the railway track used to be what set Glastonbury apart from the other big festivals.  Now you can't even stroll up to them without being denied access by the sort of people that work on the doors in the worst pubs and clubs in the country  

Completely disillusioned with the whole thing.

Edited by 504329lt, 28 June 2011 - 09:31 AM.

[AnnaGrant]

Agree about the problem for people wanting to go from Avalon to the Green fields just across the railway line, and its not an unsurprising destination for people who've visited Avalon to want to go to.  

We tried to do this on Thursday night, but were told to go all the way round, but couldn't get any definite directions-stewards just waved us off and told us to go 'that way'.  When we got to Bella's Bridge it was chaos-people were confused about where we were supposed to go, there was a large crowd, and the mud on the bridge meant stewards were having to manhandle people over the bridge.

In the end we gave up and headed back towards Holts.

[johnmcga]

AnnaGrant, on 28 June 2011 - 09:55 AM, said:

We tried to do this on Thursday night, but were told to go all the way round, but couldn't get any definite directions-stewards just waved us off and told us to go 'that way'.  When we got to Bella's Bridge it was chaos-people were confused about where we were supposed to go, there was a large crowd, and the mud on the bridge meant stewards were having to manhandle people over the bridge.

We were immediately put off by the two hour stated queueing time on Thursday night so we didn't see any of this at all (we ended up in the Cuban bar drinking mohitos and dancing to the excellent house band), so I'm not speaking from first hand knowledge. But I'm sure I read somewhere that Bella's Bridge was closed for a while on Thursday, presumably because of the ridiculous mud there.

Certainly, we got into a similar situation leaving The Park during Radiohead. Lots of people fell over in the mud at The Park entrance - and the sheer number of people made it feel quite dangerous.

[eFestivals]

johnmcga, on 28 June 2011 - 09:58 AM, said:

But I'm sure I read somewhere that Bella's Bridge was closed for a while on Thursday, presumably because of the ridiculous mud there.

it might have been closed for a while (I don't know, I didn't see it closed), but it wasn't a problem with "ridiculous mud there", but actually more a lack of mud. Mud got stuck to people's feet and got taken away from the approaches to the bridge, meaning that the bridge itself was too steep and too slippy to get over.

Most festivals would have closed the bridge. Instead, Glastonbury had security guys helping people over it - it probably took less staff to do that than to close it anyway.

The next morning when I walked over they'd dumped a huge pile of hardcore on each side of it, raising the approaches again so it was easy to get over. The next day much the same had happened again - so then they had workmen nailing extra battens to it so that people had a better grip.

All in all I thought the fest did an excellent job of managing the problems with that bridge.

[windy_miller]

Bella's bridge is a really badly designed bridge anyway.  I find it difficult to get over it when its not muddy.

[Pinhead]

It was closed one night on my way from Ped C to a shift - spoke to the security bulldog and explained that I had permission to go through as had EPO wristband and Oxfam card and was on way to a shift. They were having none of it of course - coherent decision making is not one of their strong points. Anyway, looks like it was down to mud rather than yet another closed off access due to its proximity to Shangri-La.

[polgara]

Absolutely agree....we spent the majority of our time at Avalon but it was an absolute nightmare once the 'restrictions' started. Toilets were blocked off and waved away and told to go back to the cabaret area which was treacherous. Meant that a five min toilet break tool twenty mins.

[johnmcga]

eFestivals, on 28 June 2011 - 10:08 AM, said:

it might have been closed for a while (I don't know, I didn't see it closed), but it wasn't a problem with "ridiculous mud there", but actually more a lack of mud. Mud got stuck to people's feet and got taken away from the approaches to the bridge, meaning that the bridge itself was too steep and too slippy to get over.

Most festivals would have closed the bridge. Instead, Glastonbury had security guys helping people over it - it probably took less staff to do that than to close it anyway.

The next morning when I walked over they'd dumped a huge pile of hardcore on each side of it, raising the approaches again so it was easy to get over. The next day much the same had happened again - so then they had workmen nailing extra battens to it so that people had a better grip.

All in all I thought the fest did an excellent job of managing the problems with that bridge.

I think I saw the closure mentioned on Twitter. In any case, I don't disagree that they managed it well (most of what I see at the festival is managed excellently, especially given the enormous logistical challenges they must face).

Point taken on the mud too - it was steep and slippy when I tried to get over it during the day (I can't remember if that was on Saturday or Sunday), so that certainly fits with the approaches having lost some material.

[AnnaGrant]

Neil, you're right about the problem at Bella's bridge-I hadn't explained it properly.  The ground at the bottom of each side had been worn away, so more of the arc of the bridge had been exposed, making it more difficult to climb over, and the slippy mud was exacerbating the problem.

Someone else had posted elsewhere about putting the closure point not at the exit of Avalon, but across the railway line so folks could walk across to the Green Fields.

[tolywoly]

Agreed. Leaving Flogging Molly early on Saturday, we and the small number of people heading back towards the main site ran in to thousands of people coming in the opposite direction. We got bumped around quite a bit.

It was the first year of this system though. They can learn from the experience and improve things for 2013.

[504329lt]

tolywoly, on 28 June 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

Agreed. Leaving Flogging Molly early on Saturday, we and the small number of people heading back towards the main site ran in to thousands of people coming in the opposite direction. We got bumped around quite a bit.

It was the first year of this system though. They can learn from the experience and improve things for 2013.

The best thing they can do is scrap the one way system.  It is not safer.  Nor is it in the spirit of the festival.

[redmosquito]

Getting out of U2 and back to east camper fields with a young baby in cart was a total.nightmare. Sfter they'd finished we waited for ages for the crowd to die down before setting off but as 1000's of people were all going in the same direction it was total chaos. We had fairy lights all over the cart and handle but peolle just don't look where they are going and walked into it all the time. One guy even tried to jump over it. It was such a bad experience that we couldn't face staying on site past 9 every night so had to go back to the van early. Whilst I understand the reasoning behind the system having what seemed to be the majority of the pyramid crowd all walking in the same direction as a major exit madelife very difficult for some.

[windy_miller]

Why was the "exit" so far down the railway line?  Surely the avalon and green fields turnings should not have been inside the exclusion zone?

[504329lt]

windy_miller, on 28 June 2011 - 11:23 AM, said:

Why was the "exit" so far down the railway line?  Surely the avalon and green fields turnings should not have been inside the exclusion zone?

A combination of bad planning and the employment of brain dead zombies as security.

[ukslim]

504329lt, on 28 June 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

A combination of bad planning and the employment of brain dead zombies as security.

To be fair, the last thing you want in security staff is free-thinking creativity. Their job is to implement a system.

Having said that, I went down the one-way system by mistake -- wanting ped gate C. So we backed up, and got challenged by a security guy: "What do you two think you're doing?".  We explained, and he unhooked the fence to let us out, nice as pie.

[KryziF]

I have no problem with the concept of a one way system, if they need to manage the crowds for the SE areas, but I completely agree with the OP they need to rethink exiting and toilets in Avalon.

Avalon is not part of the late night area and given the complete difference in the music in the 2 areas suspect most people from Avalon won't be joining the trudge to Arcadia.

Why can't they just rotate the security cordon around by 90 degrees so it crosses the railway track instead of the field exit. It would allow people from Avalon to use the toilet and exit onto the railway line (which would still be one way). It wouldn't affect the safety of the late night venues and would be safer as you don't have three thousand people fighting against the flow.

Plus I feel sorry for the traders in avalon as I saw many blokes prevented from getting to the toilets just pissing against the closed tents.

[504329lt]

ukslim, on 28 June 2011 - 11:53 AM, said:

To be fair, the last thing you want in security staff is free-thinking creativity. Their job is to implement a system.

Having said that, I went down the one-way system by mistake -- wanting ped gate C. So we backed up, and got challenged by a security guy: "What do you two think you're doing?".  We explained, and he unhooked the fence to let us out, nice as pie.

Yes, but if the system is flawed then some initative would be useful.

The security guards you encounered were obviously a lot better than the ones I did.

[504329lt]

KryziF, on 28 June 2011 - 11:55 AM, said:

I have no problem with the concept of a one way system, if they need to manage the crowds for the SE areas, but I completely agree with the OP they need to rethink exiting and toilets in Avalon.

Avalon is not part of the late night area and given the complete difference in the music in the 2 areas suspect most people from Avalon won't be joining the trudge to Arcadia.

Why can't they just rotate the security cordon around by 90 degrees so it crosses the railway track instead of the field exit. It would allow people from Avalon to use the toilet and exit onto the railway line (which would still be one way). It wouldn't affect the safety of the late night venues and would be safer as you don't have three thousand people fighting against the flow.

Plus I feel sorry for the traders in avalon as I saw many blokes prevented from getting to the toilets just pissing against the closed tents.

I actually think that getting rid of the one way system is the best solution.  It has not made things safer, and in places it has made things much worse.  Additionally the whole idea of electronic boards with waiting times on is just not right for this festival.

The best thing to do is split up the 'late night areas' so they are not all in one corner of the site.  In truth I think the whole Block 9, Shrangrila think has become contrived and needs a complete overhaul.

[ukslim]

504329lt, on 28 June 2011 - 02:44 PM, said:

Yes, but if the system is flawed then some initative would be useful.

The problem is that if one security guy shows some initiative and invents a modification to the system, and another elsewhere invents a different modification, and they both go ahead and do it, without communicating, then chaos can ensue.

I was there when things were a bit more ad-hoc, and let's face it, it was anarchy. Sometimes good anarchy. Sometimes bad anarchy.

Anarchy can be fun when it's just a riot of people having fun. But it's bloody annoying when you just want to get on a bus without getting crushed or queue-jumped.

[eFestivals]

504329lt, on 28 June 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:

The best thing to do is split up the 'late night areas' so they are not all in one corner of the site.  

I don't think that's an option.

It's where it is because that's the one part of the site where noise thru the night is not as much of an issue, because Michael has made some agreements with the small number of people who live on that side.