121 replies to this topic

[Yokel Again]

Last year the capacity seemed just right - somewhere between busy and still chilled. I hope if there has been an increase it doesn't change this. After seeing how Latitude changed from 07-10, from being cool and chilled to packed and nasty (well, not really nasty, but the point is there).. I would hate EOTR to change too much. I love it! Still, trust the organisers, they've done a cracking job to date.

[Better Late...]

Swindlebiscuit, on 22 June 2011 - 07:17 AM, said:

Personally, I think the difference between '08 and '09 in terms of people was very noticeable. 2,000 tickets for bands and workers? That seems pretty high. Pretty sure some of that extra capacity must have included increased punter numbers.

I felt the same about the difference between 2009, when I was a first timer, and 2010. 2009 felt small and relaxed; 2010, while still of manageable proportions, felt busier and more hassle-y. More people, more "assertive behaviour" - shoving and bad-mouthing to the front at the stages - noisier campsite with more security problems etc etc. I hope this year won't see further increases in these problems and mark a real change in the atmosphere of this lovely festival.

I'm also convinced there are day visitors, in spite of there being apparently no such tickets on sale. This seems particularly noticeable in the main stage areas in the evenings - unless some people have just spent all day at their tents getting hammered and then emerge noisily just for the main bands. Could it be that security around the woods is sufficiently lax that locals who know their way around can slip in and mingle ?

[RedRockRick]

langerabend, on 22 June 2011 - 08:23 AM, said:

what a cool link!

Hmmm....Would an increase to 8,500 constitute permitted development?

[Infinite Jest]

Better Late..., on 22 June 2011 - 09:26 AM, said:

I'm also convinced there are day visitors, in spite of there being apparently no such tickets on sale. This seems particularly noticeable in the main stage areas in the evenings - unless some people have just spent all day at their tents getting hammered and then emerge noisily just for the main bands. Could it be that security around the woods is sufficiently lax that locals who know their way around can slip in and mingle ?

I definitely felt this for the Hold Steady in 2009, and wondered if people had jumped the fence. Felt like there were people there who hadn't been at Larmer Tree Gardens for the whole festival.

[Donny Osmond]

Better Late..., on 22 June 2011 - 09:26 AM, said:

I felt the same about the difference between 2009, when I was a first timer, and 2010. 2009 felt small and relaxed; 2010, while still of manageable proportions, felt busier and more hassle-y. More people, more "assertive behaviour" - shoving and bad-mouthing to the front at the stages - noisier campsite with more security problems etc etc. I hope this year won't see further increases in these problems and mark a real change in the atmosphere of this lovely festival.

Completely agree. 2006 - 2009 all felt relaxed with plenty of room to drift around as you pleased. It was always a pleasure & I was most reassured to hear they had no plans to sell more tickets as they liked it the way it was. Last year however there was a distinct mood shift that seemed to coincide with a lot more people on site. As you say there seemed to be more aggressive people who just didn't fit with the EOTR vibe & I was left with a nagging concern that it was drifting away from the unique atmosphere that made it special.

I tend to head out to Shaftsbury in the mornings for supplies & the car park last year was at least 30% fuller than it had been in previous years...bit of a give away that really. In music terms last year's festival was possibly the best EOTR I've been to - but in terms of the overall experience it was someway behind previous years. Suffice to say I'm not looking forward to an extra 1.5k people on top of what I already thought was a hectic site & it's a shame that the organisers ultimately didn't value what made EOTR so special, above the prospect of making a bit more money. If they have a problem in covering costs then I'd much rather pay more for my ticket and keep the special EOTR atmosphere rather than water down the magic by cramming too many people in.

Edited by Donny Osmond, 22 June 2011 - 12:30 PM.

[asita]

I've given this some though and my only real concern with the festival getting bigger is what happens when a really popular act draws a really large crowd. as long as people stay evenly distributed about the site, in terms of acts, dancing, drink and food then i doubt anyone will notice the difference, but if the balances shifts at all then wherever the popular band/dj/food stall is will start to suffer pretty seriously. to make sure it doesn't you basically have to engineer clashes between acts to make sure the crowd stays even. In the past EOTR has been very good at juggling its bands so you could catch at least some of all the best bands - it's going to be much harder to do this year. If you consider that we've had a steep ticket price rise (or those that didn't get early birds will have) and a size increase and the possibility of seeing less bands than last year there is certainly a sense of trepidation about this news.

Balanced against this is the fact that for the past 4 years EOTR has been my favourite festival by a length, and that's not exclusively down to the sense of quiet and space that we're all worried about protecting, but also about balancing the best acts, food, drink and entertainment together to make a really perfect weekend. Whilst I'm worried about the balance of the festival I'm also really excited to see what the organisers have come up with this year and I'm kind of glad they've not rested on their laurels.

So yes, we can be worried if we like but at the end of the day the evidence that this will damage the festival is incredibly slight compared to the excellent record of simon and sofia. Balance your worries with a little trust and I reckon all will be well.

[bennyhana22]

All of the above is interesting and it seems to me that there is likely to be a small increase in numbers, based on what seems to be pretty convincing evidence of a capacity last year way above the commonly accepted 5000. However, given the comments about an even spread of festival goers in the various areas, surely there is one BURNING question that needs an answer:

WHERE is the Woods Stage going to be? What will it look like and what will it's capacity be?

I remember the Garden being 'closed' to any more punters for Fleet Foxes in 2009. Presumably part of the motivation for a bigger stage (given the accepted increase in numbers) is to ensure that 'no-one' is precluded from seeing what are considered to be the biggest draws of the festival, numerically - i.e. the Main Stage headliners. The Garden Stage setting, design and all is SOOO lovely. They'll have to come up with a pretty special atmosphere to top that...especially as it gets dark.

Ben

[paulwa]

Maybe this is the reason for the move to 2 large outdoor stages? i.e. to accommodate more people onsite and spread them around a bit. Also, the organisers always said that the Big Top had the same capacity as the Garden Stage (3,000 from memory?), so there are now 3 big stages for all those additional people. Of course the staggered start times could mean a big rush between stages, but it's one theory.

As regards the position of the Woods Stage, there clearly isn't space in what we traditionally think of as the woods setting. The only other big space I can think of would be at the other end of the festival, next to where the Tipi Tent and Cider bus were last year. This position would also avoid noise bleeding between the big stages. I think there are quite a few lines of trees up there, which could justify calling it the Woods Stage. It  would, however, mean taking over some of the campsite space between the existing festival perimeter and the terracotta monument, so where do all the extra campers go? It's a conundrum!

Edited by paulwa, 22 June 2011 - 12:20 PM.

[MattL80]

The combination of a popular act in the big top plus heavy rain could result
in a very crowded big top. Could get interesting. I hope they've sorted out
some decent weather.

[End of the Road]

Simon has asked for the following post on the forum to provide some clarity to the questions raised on these forums.....

-----------

Following on from my Festival blog post on virtual festivals the other day I would like to respond to the questions asked here about stages and capacity.

For the past 2 years our capacity has been 7,000, not 5,000 (our original quota).
We watched the effects of the increase carefully and felt it had no negative impact at all on the intimate atmosphere, facilities, food and beer queues etc.
In fact the effect was the opposite: the energy of the festival increased without there being any sense of overcrowding.
Tickets sell out every year and many go disappointed, so if we can increase availability without compromising on the atmosphere, we will.

A beneficial side effect is a bigger organisational budget which we hope comes through in what we think is our best lineup so far.
This year we're also trying out a new outdoor stage - The Woods Stage, and a new comedy set-up - Comedy in the Forest.
Facilities, camping etc will increase accordingly.

From our point of view, each year it feels like the spirit of End of the Road is animated, not compromised, by constantly forcing ourselves to come to the
festival with fresh eyes.

Stages and areas are listed on this page http://www.endofther...ages-and-areas/ of our website.
Lineup times and a site plan will be added in the next few weeks.
The Local will take up a new residency in the Tipi on Friday.

Regards Simon.

[eagles69]

I hav tried my best but can u give us a clue where the Wood Stage is going? Thank u for answering every1's questions. I have full trust that this year will b just as good if not better. The line-up as you hav said is the best I have seen it.

[bennyhana22]

Noe THAT'S why we love EOTR! We have a mini-heated debate about something and Simon posts within a day or two to clarify.

Is there ANY festival quite like 'ours'?!

I've been thinking about this a lot in the run up to Glastonbury. I've never been to Pilton and maybe never will, though I wouldn't rule it out in terms of I would never wish to. I will also very much enjoy watching a lot of stuff on TV over the coming weekend. But, in terms of feeling 'special', I honestly don't think that even the Big One can compete with EOTR. Glastonbury has become so very mainstream musically, and whilst I realise that it is about SO much more than the music, if you look at the typical EOTR-goer, I would suggest that for them a sub-par music line-up could not be made up for by a great non-music line-up. I'm also pleased that EOTR is small enough not to attract any TV coverage etc. Glastonbury seems very much to have become for many the place to be seen, as much as being somewhere to experience the arts.

From 1-5 September I will be part of a lovely little community isolated from the entire world outside of its borders and special ONLY for those of us on the inside.

You might have gathered that I can't bloody wait!

Ben

[Hotcider]

End of the Road, on 22 June 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

Simon has asked for the following post on the forum to provide some clarity to the questions raised on these forums.....

-----------

Following on from my Festival blog post on virtual festivals the other day I would like to respond to the questions asked here about stages and capacity.

For the past 2 years our capacity has been 7,000, not 5,000 (our original quota).
We watched the effects of the increase carefully and felt it had no negative impact at all on the intimate atmosphere, facilities, food and beer queues etc.
In fact the effect was the opposite: the energy of the festival increased without there being any sense of overcrowding.
Tickets sell out every year and many go disappointed, so if we can increase availability without compromising on the atmosphere, we will.

A beneficial side effect is a bigger organisational budget which we hope comes through in what we think is our best lineup so far.
This year we're also trying out a new outdoor stage - The Woods Stage, and a new comedy set-up - Comedy in the Forest.
Facilities, camping etc will increase accordingly.

From our point of view, each year it feels like the spirit of End of the Road is animated, not compromised, by constantly forcing ourselves to come to the
festival with fresh eyes.

Stages and areas are listed on this page http://www.endofther...ages-and-areas/ of our website.
Lineup times and a site plan will be added in the next few weeks.
The Local will take up a new residency in the Tipi on Friday.

Regards Simon.

Now this, in a nutshell, is why EOTR is such a great festival. Always looking to improve without compromising what is so good plus a genuine concern for what the punters think. They have never disappointed before, have faith people  

[geofelgie]

Hotcider, on 22 June 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

They have never disappointed before...

Well I suppose there was the layout of the Tipi stage in 2009......other than that.....err, um, err..........!

I wholeheartedly agree, it's the openness and the care & attention that makes EOTR special.

[Donny Osmond]

Hmmm - that's quite a shift from the email received when booking for 2010:

Quote

First of all, just to explain the current capacity as we've always talked about 5,000 when we started the festival, but that was referring to the number of punters, rather than the actual "capacity", which is 7,000, which equals roughly 5,500 tickets + 500 children + 1,000 staff (stewards, security, traders/caterers, artists, guests etc.) and the intimacy and atmosphere is very, very important to us and hence we don't have any plans to increase from 7,000 to 10,000 at this moment in time, especially as it is working so well.

So if there are now 8500 adults that is a whopping increase of 55% on the 5500 mentioned. I'm sure there were considerably more than 5500 adults there last year & as stated in my previous post we noticed a marked change in atmosphere compared to the previous four years. I'll grant you that there was no marked difference in the facilities, food and beer queues, etc - although the camping was much more cramped than before.

As for the bigger organisational budget I have to confess to being fairly non plussed about this years line up compared to previous years. There are still plenty of acts I want to see but I'm barely interested in seeing any of the 9 bands in the biggest font on the line up page of the EOTR website. I accept this is down to personal taste but hearing Joanna Newsom was the final headliner hardly screamed "bigger budget" from a festival that has previously had the likes of Wilco, Fleet Foxes, Mercury Rev, Lampchop, Yo La Tengo, Super Furries, etc as headliners!

[xman]

Thanks for clearing things up Simon - much appreciated. A jump from 7000 to 8500 isn't too brutal and of course an additional stage should take up most of the slack. My main concern is the loss of intimacy we've enjoyed these past 4 years. I'm old and ugly enough to remember when The Big Chill was held at LTG. In 1999 it was a lovely festival; lots of little known bands playing to a small appreciative audience in a wonderful setting. Word got out about this magical event and each year it became bigger and bawdier until finally they had to uproot to their current site at Eastnor.

The last Chill at Larmer Tree was a terrible squeeze and far from chilled. Unfortunately it was the one and only time that the main arena was situated outside the garden area, suddenly it felt like we were at Reading or Leeds, the spell was broken and - for me at least - it was game over.

I'm hoping and praying EOTR doesn't go the same way because it really is a very special festival indeed.

[geofelgie]

Of course this does completely muddle all my thinking as to who might play where and when!

Eg....I was sure Midlake would be on before Beirut on the "main stage" but it turns out I didn't even know where the main stage was! And Midlake on the Garden at the same time as Beirut are on the Woods would suit me absolutely down to the ground - and possibly make Ben cry............but then I really can't see them putting Joanna Newsom and Laura Marling on at the same time............Okkervil River headlining the Garden up against any of the headliners would also be fab (for me).......although of course the Woods stage goes on till 23:59 on Sunday.....actually, can that be right? An open air stage continuing later on the Sunday than either Saturday or Friday???????  Seems odd....

...head spinning, too much information, too little information......tantalising!

One immediate thought - all those hour long (or more) sets....all of the Woods, vast majority of Garden and most of the Big Top.... has to be a good thing.....many of us have said that the real added strength of this bill is a bit down the list, not at the top....and the fact that the vast majority of acts are going to get at least an hour.......making me smile it is!

[bennyhana22]

You are, as ever, on the money, Mr E. I am welling up at the increasingly concerning clash disaster that seems inevitable for me. My anxiety has started even after the solitary stage time yet published - I really expect to watch the indescribably fun Brakes, and yet their headline slot at 9pm on Sunday in the Big Top has got Clashtastic written all over it...

Ben

[SweepingTheNation]

Donny Osmond, on 22 June 2011 - 02:16 PM, said:

I accept this is down to personal taste but hearing Joanna Newsom was the final headliner hardly screamed "bigger budget" from a festival that has previously had the likes of Wilco, Fleet Foxes, Mercury Rev, Lampchop, Yo La Tengo, Super Furries, etc as headliners!

Bearing in mind Newsom is the sole reason for Latitude's Sunday midday 'fourth headliner' slot and headlined the 10,000 capacity Green Man last year, I'd say she's much bigger budget.

[Swindlebiscuit]

Thanks for the update Simon.

I'm a bit uneasy about how the extra 1,500 people will work too, though I have faith in the organisers.

No point harking back to the days when you could wander up the sides of the Garden Stage arena for Super Furries or any other headliner and plonk yourself right at the front. Though they were great times