22 replies to this topic

[mrtourette]

Amid the chaos I'd like to take the chance to say thanks and well done to eFests for again nailing the headliners and doing it so far in advance, as well as nearly every other rumour that appeared over the last couple of weeks turning out to be true.

[Dave The Hedgehog]

Just wish in future they wouldn't delete the thread with the leaked line-up on it.

But otherwise, yes, thanks. Just needed the confirmation last night to be happy (or unhappy as is the case).

[Dirty Boots]

Neil is a festival god.

[MJMilz14]

Dave The Hedgehog, on 22 March 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

Just wish in future they wouldn't delete the thread with the leaked line-up on it.

Neil wouldn't have done it without a good reason.

It's all very well posting the leaked lineup and Efestivals users knowing the lineup early (and let's face it, most of us saw it and saved it before it got deleted anyway), but what good would it be if for example FR took legeal action against the site for posting it, or if it lost Neil a good contact, meaning we get less good and reliable rumours next year?

[Dave The Hedgehog]

MJMilz14, on 22 March 2011 - 10:08 AM, said:

It's all very well posting the leaked lineup and Efestivals users knowing the lineup early (and let's face it, most of us saw it and saved it before it got deleted anyway), but what good would it be if for example FR took legeal action against the site for posting it, or if it lost Neil a good contact, meaning we get less good and reliable rumours next year?

To my knowledge, the poster was leaked to Kerrang and they did what they wanted with it. It ended up all over the internet and from there the forums took over and things went a bit mental. All eFestivals had to do was relay the news officially like they usually do, and they did so (weirdly enough) after everybody here did it but not before deleting all of the threads that were relevant to it, which I thought was a bit strange. If they were that worried, they wouldn't have ultimately done it after everybody else had done it for them on the various forums around the internet - unless, of course, they did so deliberately once they got the go-ahead to do it.

They did nothing wrong by reporting the news, albeit later than everybody else. If there's something we needed to know (and we did need to know - otherwise we wouldn't have been here day in day out for the last 6 months), they took their time in letting people know about it. The only reason for them to have been worried would have been if they actually had some sort of official confirmation ages ago but were legally obliged to say nothing other than mask it as speculation, in which case I would question eFestival's transparency.

Nevertheless, we know the line-up now so it's irrelevant, it just would have been nice to be able to come to this website and find out about the news sooner without having to resort to clandestine measures of exchanging e-mails to get it.

[mrtourette]

I just went onto punktastic, it was still on their forums.

But I agree, if it put a good relationship or source in jeapordy and risked losing good information in future years then he was right to  go along with FR, obviously until they realised it was pointless and the news item was put up featuring it.

I guess sites like punktastic don't have to worry about having a good working relationship with FR because the they don't get any accurate information anyway.

[PurpleFire]

Well done Neil and Efestivals! Got it spot on, and i for one are very happy with the line-up, I was one of the moaners about MCR headlining but now looking at the acts below them im actually going to watch them, Beady eye are not a great act to headline they will just play the album which is a bit bland.

Very happy, lots of bands for me to discover! Ive only ever seen 3 of the bands before on that line-up!

[dannyv18]

well done neil first year on efests for me... deffinately be staying on here for future years ... beats official R+L anyday of the week!

great work with rumours lets hope you get them as early next year (and daft punks included) ^.^ hahaa we can all dream! but for me its an awesome line up so very happy :D

[Couchy]

This man deserves a medal! Well done.

[lharris92]

good work yet again, even if we didn't like who was being rumoured..  

[eFestivals]

MJMilz14, on 22 March 2011 - 10:08 AM, said:

Neil wouldn't have done it without a good reason.

It's all very well posting the leaked lineup and Efestivals users knowing the lineup early (and let's face it, most of us saw it and saved it before it got deleted anyway), but what good would it be if for example FR took legeal action against the site for posting it, or if it lost Neil a good contact, meaning we get less good and reliable rumours next year?

I posted a short explanation in the 'deleted posts' thread last night. Feel free to find it an read it.

I wasn't under any threat of anything, and did nothing for FR that I've not done previously for Glastonbury, V and others.

Ultimately, efestivals success is dependent on the success of the festivals it has to write about, and a part of that success for the festivals is the management of their announcements and the publicity they get via those. It's one thing weedling out a number of acts who may or may not be playing and reporting them as rumours, it's another thing entirely to fatally undermine a carefully planned publicity campaign as happened yesterday.

With what happened yesterday, my only unhappiness is being asked to fight what was clearly a losing battle at the point I was asked to remove the posts. If the info hadn't been circulated and copied as much as it had been, then people would be viewing things in a different manner to the way that they are - you might still be annoyed that good info was removed, but you wouldn't be viewing it as all having been totally pointless anyway.

[Dave The Hedgehog]

eFestivals, on 22 March 2011 - 12:27 PM, said:

it's another thing entirely to fatally undermine a carefully planned publicity campaign as happened yesterday.

The thing is, I think, ultimately, something like that we have a right to know about if we're potential customers and considering the idea of putting money down on it. People's lives are affected by this knowledge - family committments, financial committments, long-term planning, etc. If there is information that is solid; information that pertains to what is essentially a life decision, we should know about it because it's important.

Another reason why it's important for me personally is that I had been planning for months to go to Leeds, and had saved £400 (for 2 tickets) aside for it waiting to see who was on the line-up, and an additional £100 for a hotel room somewhere. Had I known or received the same information that we all received yesterday with the leak 2 or 3 months ago - because let's face it, most of those bands on the poster have been on that poster for about that long - then I wouldn't have made the same financial arrangements that I have been making for the last 2 or 3 months, and it would have pissed me off royally if that information had been taken down purely because the justification is it undermines a failed PR campaign.

I think - if there is a leak, and the leak is actual valid information, the only fault I can find is in Festival Republic's publicity campaign that allowed such a thing to happen in the first place. As such, I don't think a website like eFestivals should worry too much or be unhappy that such information is being passed around on their message boards, and shouldn't corpse at the idea that a carefully planned publicity campaign has ultimately failed and has only really been undermined by the people that planned it in the first place.

Was it a bad decision to take it down when clearly so many people wanted it? I think it was. Does it matter now? Ultimately, no it doesn't but I think what's more important, for your website especially, is that you don't undermine the value of the community that enables it to thrive by implementing such casual disregard for something they clearly have an interest in, and placing priority of what was otherwise a failed PR campaign over their wants and needs. I thought it was a cynical thing to do and I think deleting the threads was a mistake.

But like I've said it doesn't matter now. I won't be going to Leeds this year but I wish all the very best to those who do.

[eFestivals]

Dave The Hedgehog, on 22 March 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

The thing is, I think, ultimately, something like that we have a right to know about if we're potential customers and considering the idea of putting money down on it. People's lives are affected by this knowledge - family committments, financial committments, long-term planning, etc. If there is information that is solid; information that pertains to what is essentially a life decision, we should know about it because it's important.

Oh FFS - waiting another 8 hours for info about an event nearly 6 months away isn't going to kill anyone.

And the simple fact is that the info that was floating around wasn't solid enough for anyone to make firm plans about anyway, because no one was entirely sure if it was real.

Dave The Hedgehog, on 22 March 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

I think - if there is a leak, and the leak is actual valid information, the only fault I can find is in Festival Republic's publicity campaign that allowed such a thing to happen in the first place.

unless you think that every festival is going to keep perhaps hundreds of people in a locked room - some for many months - then you're being stupidly unrealistic. It's just not possible to micro-manage every aspect of an information release where 3rd parties such as magazines are involved in that info release.

Dave The Hedgehog, on 22 March 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

As such, I don't think a website like eFestivals should worry too much or be unhappy that such information is being passed around on their message boards

and I wasn't. Why do you think I was?

Dave The Hedgehog, on 22 March 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

, and shouldn't corpse at the idea that a carefully planned publicity campaign has ultimately failed and has only really been undermined by the people that planned it in the first place.

Don't be so f**king stupid.

Dave The Hedgehog, on 22 March 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

Does it matter now? Ultimately, no it doesn't but I think what's more important, for your website especially, is that you don't undermine the value of the community that enables it to thrive by implementing such casual disregard for something they clearly have an interest in, and placing priority of what was otherwise a failed PR campaign over their wants and needs. I thought it was a cynical thing to do and I think deleting the threads was a mistake.

ah well, find yourself other forums to use, which are run on the entirely selfish and unthinking basis that suits you.

[Dave The Hedgehog]

eFestivals, on 22 March 2011 - 01:32 PM, said:

ah well, find yourself other forums to use, which are run on the entirely selfish and unthinking basis that suits you.

In all fairness, I think your website is one of the better ones I use hands down - in any category - and overall I have no problems with it. I think the message boards are dealt with effectively and fairly for the most part, people are allowed to discuss things without the need for moderators to step in unless things get a little hectic and rowdy, people are left to their own devices and the community aspect is very, very good.

My only complaint was that I thought it was relevant information that was taken down for all of the wrong reasons. I was only attempting to engage you in what I thought was a reasonable discussion. Sorry if that's not how you saw it.

[danvb]

i dont mind waiting to hear the line up on the night,but doing it dead on the time that tickets go on sale is a bit harsh,as your there looking at the line up deciding if its for you or not,wasting time that could be spent buying tickets if you would have seen the poster atleast a few hours in advance and already been convinced of wanting to go.

the earlier leak allowed for everyone to see who was there and let them decide if they wanted tickets or not.And not feel rushed into deciding if its worth a day or weekend ticket.

What is reading/leeds tactic?,to get people to gamble 200 quid on tickets then go look at what theyve paid for?.

Whats wrong with announcing headliners and 2nd/3rd top bands earlier than on the night?.

Dont all most festivals release atleast headliners before tickets go on sale?,im sure download and v festival let their audience be aware of whose playing that year before the day of tickets going on sale.

[zahidf]

Anyone who wanted to could find the leaked line up, even after it was taken down here.

If efestivals don't want to annoy one of the major festival promoters out there for no reason, then there is nothing wrong with that.

[eFestivals]

Dave The Hedgehog, on 22 March 2011 - 01:40 PM, said:

My only complaint was that I thought it was relevant information that was taken down for all of the wrong reasons. I was only attempting to engage you in what I thought was a reasonable discussion. Sorry if that's not how you saw it.

My apologies if I got you wrong.

As I've said, it proved to ultimately pointless removing the stuff that was removed, and because of that I'm relatively unhappy about having done it. But that side of things aside...

You go on about how it's all FR's fault that it leaked - when it's not, it's not them that leaked it - and think they should have done better. Yet when they try and address the leak in the only way possible to them after it had leaked by asking people such as me to take it down, you say that's all wrong too. It sounds to me as tho you're wanting it both ways - while at the same time considering none of the impact of what's happened, you're only looking at things from the selfish basis of "I want to know".

Sat where I'm sat, I not only have to consider the efests audience, I have to consider the effects in all directions of anything that I do. If festivals lose their publicity - the impact of which can't be understated (and I'm saying that as someone who likes to think that publicity and advertising doesn't impact on me) - then that impacts on a festival's success, which impacts back on efests, and ultimately YOU as a festival goer. If festivals can't cut advertising deals because those advertisers know they won't get value from it cos of leaks, then that affects the money a fest has to spend on bands, which effects what you get to see. Etc, etc, etc.

All of these things are interlinked to some degree, and while I don't personally like some of those interlinked aspects, I'm able to recognise that they are. If I want efests to continue to be a big success then I also need festivals to be as successful as they're able to be too.

I don't play the sucky-sucky game with promoters, ever - if FR had made some sort of threat towards me I'd very possibly have told them to shove it, and risked any consequences there might have been. After all, I started this site and made it the success it is by doing things in my own way (very unlike the standard media world) and not worrying about any possible come-backs, and it's worked out very well for me. But they asked nicely, on the basis of "we've worked hard to put this all together, and we want to make a big splash with it both for those who are interested in going and with the press" sort-of way, and I felt that was more than reasonable.

We live in an interlinked world - and without successful festivals, eFestivals has nothing.

[eFestivals]

danvb, on 22 March 2011 - 02:15 PM, said:

What is reading/leeds tactic?,to get people to gamble 200 quid on tickets then go look at what theyve paid for?.

of course not. It's not R/L's doing that that's the situation with it, it's the result of the festivals popularity.

danvb, on 22 March 2011 - 02:15 PM, said:

Whats wrong with announcing headliners and 2nd/3rd top bands earlier than on the night?.

Different festivals do things in different ways, for whatever reasons they've just justified to themselves.

With R/L, they've done the announcement and ticket sales like this since 2000 at least (since I've been doing efests), yet back then it didn't sell out in an instant, so there wasn't the same situation. The situation has come about as it is due to the festivals' popularity in more recent years.

danvb, on 22 March 2011 - 02:15 PM, said:

Dont all most festivals release atleast headliners before tickets go on sale?,im sure download and v festival let their audience be aware of whose playing that year before the day of tickets going on sale.

As I say above, other festivals have chosen to do things differently. But doing things the way that the likes of Download, V, and TitP do annoys people in an opposite way, that they know who's playing but can't buy tickets, and that their chance to buy tickets is lessened by the fact that word gets around about the line-ups and so causes a greater demand.

There's no perfect way to do these things - every method has its advantages and disadvantages.

[eFestivals]

zahidf, on 22 March 2011 - 02:36 PM, said:

Anyone who wanted to could find the leaked line up, even after it was taken down here.

If efestivals don't want to annoy one of the major festival promoters out there for no reason, then there is nothing wrong with that.

Yep, you make good points - it was out there to be found if you wanted to find it.

But there was nothing about annoying (or not) a major festival organiser in my decision to agree to remove it. Things were being considered on a deeper and more meaningful level than that.

As plenty of festival organisers could tell you - very probably including Melvin - I don't have any problems about upsetting festival organisers. It's something I've become more than a little known for.

[mallett]

i can see why you want to kep a healthy relationship with festival promoters and vice versa. without festivals, you wouldnt be able to run a website, and without efestivals, a large amount of relatively free advertisement (word of mouth mainly) is avaiable to the festival promoters.