182 replies to this topic

[JLP4]

I've always been with the opinion that diversity in music is important, so I realise why it should be represented at Glastonbury but I always thought that is why we have diverse festivals, Download, Glastonbury, Leeds/Reading, all choose to go different directions and you choose which one you want to go to. If you had 1 festival that had everything then why wouldn't every festival become the same, different music is what makes different festivals and plays a big part in making them unique

[JLP4]

I've always been with the opinion that diversity in music is important, so I realise why it should be represented at Glastonbury but I always thought that is why we have diverse festivals, Download, Glastonbury, Leeds/Reading, all choose to go different directions and you choose which one you want to go to. If you had 1 festival that had everything then why wouldn't every festival become the same, different music is what makes different festivals and plays a big part in making them unique

[Pogues Mcgogues]

eFestivals, on 27 August 2010 - 01:39 PM, said:

Is it true that more crowd deaths happen within shows of heavy bands, or another genre?

Once you've removed your head from your arse, you'll have to admit that more deaths happen within crowds of heavy bands than other genres. Or you're even more of a twat than I thought you were.

It doesn't mean deaths are likely; I've not said they're likely. But it's definitely the case that with all other things being equal there's a greater risk of an incident leading to a death when there's a heavy band on stage than a band of another genre. That is a VERY certain fact.

Eavis recognised that fact after what happened at Roskilde and decided at that time to ensure nothing like that happened at his festival (as I've explained more fully above). It's his festival - which makes what happens his responsibility. It's clearly an issue he'd prefer not to be responsible for.

It's very easy for a know-nothing twat to dismiss the view he's taken as ignorant - even tho the facts of the incidents that have happened show that it's not. It's very easy for a know-nothing twat to say he should put his concerns aside, because none of those consequences come back onto that know-nothing twat.

If it's all as easy as you imagine, then there's nothing stopping you doing it at your own festival. Until you do, you're in no position to criticise someone who is prepared to take on the risks, responsibilities and consequences of the choices that you're not prepared to make yourself.

How many drug related deaths happen at dance events? Certainly at all the festivals which I've attended I can remember a festival related death (ie, not an underlying problem which caused death at the festival, but one which happened and was caused at the festival) was a dance event. We better get rid of those dance fields, and while we're at it, get rid of the stone circle where drugs seemed to be happening fairly regularly. One slip up and we have a death.

Admit it Neil, you are seriously over-reacting and supporting "banning" anything that has a bit of distortion is most certainly being far far far too over-cautious. It should also be noted that the examples you seem to provide are of events a while ago.

And I'm a twat? Well that's a much different approach from the friendly guy who walked accross the group to greet me at the Cider Bus. I'm sorry if I left that impression on you with the five sentences we spoke to one another that evening.

[Cooter]

tonyblair, on 27 August 2010 - 08:35 AM, said:

but there nearly always is a couple of mid-name heavier bands

personally, I'm glad that bands like Metallica, Iron Maiden, Kiss, and all the school boy nonsense they represent aren't on... I don't know what difference it might make, and it's just a personal 'thing' really

AC/DC, ZZ Top?... maybe

quite agree with the heavy mid-names being there anyway......

But how the hell can you compare the great Maiden to Kiss and Metallica, (and to fuel the discussion) I'll also add that you're obviously a complete twat!!  

On a different note, does'nt Emily have some say into the bookings nowadays. Unless shes a headbanger she won't be booking big name metallers would she?

[tonyblair]

Cooter, on 28 August 2010 - 11:58 AM, said:

But how the hell can you compare the great Maiden to Kiss and Metallica

they're all rock bands with tedius lyrics and tunes...


there, I've compared them with each other

Cooter, on 28 August 2010 - 11:58 AM, said:

I'll also add that you're obviously a complete twat!!  

nice...

is it because I don't like someone that you do??

Cooter, on 28 August 2010 - 11:58 AM, said:

the great Maiden

and I'm a twat?

Edited by tonyblair, 28 August 2010 - 05:06 PM.

[Wanderlei]

I think it's unfair to say heavy rock = crowd death. It's too much of a generalisation. I'm sure Glasto could find heavy rock bands that aren't known for crowd trouble. Having said that i probably wouldn't go to see them lol.

[Cooter]

tonyblair, on 28 August 2010 - 12:04 PM, said:

nice...

is it because I don't like someone that you do??

I was joking Tony

[tonyblair]

Cooter, on 28 August 2010 - 05:39 PM, said:

I was joking Tony

oops
I hate that...

not you joking, me not getting it  

[Cooter]

tonyblair, on 28 August 2010 - 05:47 PM, said:

oops
I hate that...

not you joking, me not getting it  

no probs, I'm not one to call someone a twat normally, just seems the in thing to do around these ways lately!

[tonyblair]

Cooter, on 28 August 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

no probs, I'm not one to call someone a twat normally, just seems the in thing to do around these ways lately!

I didn't think you were

which made it even more hurtful...

nothing a few months of counselling won't cure though....

[SirDaniel]

Nine people died when Pearl Jam played Roskilde back in 2000. I'm guessing this is why Glastonbury never hosts any alternative rock bands.

Oh, wait.

[ampersand]

didn't someone die at glastonbury in 07? pretty sure i heard about one on the saturday or sunday of that year.

did eavis admit responsibility for that? what makes that death any easier to take on your land than one that would potentially happen should metallica play?

i know you could say that the one at metallica would very probably not happen should he not book them, but a deaths a death.

[Spindles]

Someone dies every year.  How many died this year? 2?

As stated elsewhere, the majority of festival deaths are related to dance culture drug use rather than crowd issues from metal bands.  The prodigy were great last year and I personally believe that they cover both areas (dance/metal).

It is a myth to say that glastonbury does not book heavier acts.  I've seen some stonking hard bands at Glasto over the years (ratm, nin, asian dub foundation, prodigy, cypress hill and more besides) that are known for solid sets with crowds that know how to get down.  

It might be true, however, that such bands are booked less (not banned) and I am not going to complain about that.  It was historically the case throughout the 80s and 90s that reading had the harder, more mainstream lineup and glasto the more eclectic, mixing world music, chart pop and smaller, less well known artists, providing a larger number of bands at a larger number of venues at the event itself.  I cannot see that this has changed at all.

What I see is that download and other 'niche' festivals that have appeared have meant that such acts are attracted to these festivals instead, many of whom have exclusivity clauses and so on, that if anything is a greater reason for lack of heavy acts at glasto than even eavis himself.

All of the above is my opinion, I am not stating that this is a FACT, I am not a twat.  Sorry.

[jump]

TheJobbyJabber, on 26 August 2010 - 05:01 PM, said:

3/I'm not suggesting bigger bands. There's no reason a band like Skindred or Sonic Boom Six who have cross over appeal (reggae, ska, hip hop) couldn't play Glasto.

Sonic Boom 6 have played though.

[eFestivals]

TheJobbyJabber, on 27 August 2010 - 11:27 PM, said:

How many drug related deaths happen at dance events?

probably quite a lot. But they're not something that's the direct result of a festival organisers choices.

If someone kills themselves via drugs, the clue is in the words "kills themselves".

TheJobbyJabber, on 27 August 2010 - 11:27 PM, said:

Admit it Neil, you are seriously over-reacting and supporting "banning" anything that has a bit of distortion is most certainly being far far far too over-cautious. It should also be noted that the examples you seem to provide are of events a while ago.

How am *I* over-reacting? I'm doing nothing at all, except furnishing you with some certain facts.

And the facts remain:-
1. more people die in crowds while a 'heavy' band is on stage.
2. the bigger the crowd, the bigger the risk. Glastonbury has the biggest crowds of any fest.
2. Eavis didn't (and quite possibly still doesn't) want anyone to die at his festival as the result of his choices.

It's Eavis' festival; it's his choice.

TheJobbyJabber, on 27 August 2010 - 11:27 PM, said:

And I'm a twat? Well that's a much different approach from the friendly guy who walked accross the group to greet me at the Cider Bus. I'm sorry if I left that impression on you with the five sentences we spoke to one another that evening.

Yes, you're being a twat. You are dismissing the valid concerns of Eavis as an irrelevance.

Do *YOU* want to be responsible for perhaps causing deaths as a direct result of your choices?
If you don't, why expect of others what you're not prepared to do yourself? If you do, then get on with running a festival yourself.

Eavis is allowed to make his own choices. He's made his own choices for his own good reasons. Just because you don't consider the risk of deaths - however small they might be - to be good reasons doesn't mean that they're not good reasons.

[eFestivals]

ampersand, on 30 August 2010 - 09:37 AM, said:

didn't someone die at glastonbury in 07? pretty sure i heard about one on the saturday or sunday of that year.

did eavis admit responsibility for that? what makes that death any easier to take on your land than one that would potentially happen should metallica play?

i know you could say that the one at metallica would very probably not happen should he not book them, but a deaths a death.

There's often deaths at Glastonbury Festival. However, those deaths are either self-inflicted - such as due to drug use - or the result of a medical condition.

Those things are nothing that Eavis can consider himself responsible for. If someone is going to take drugs they shouldn't then that's not his doing, and deaths from medical conditions are 'normal' deaths which can be expected when the number of people are as large as the numbers at Glastonbury. Those things are nothing that Eavis can consider himself responsible for, and the law of this country doesn't either.

The same doesn't apply with things he makes a direct choice over. If he books a band and there's a crowd incident that leads to deaths, then those deaths are a direct result of his choices - both with booking the band and the crowd control management that has failed. He is legally responsible for the crowd management.

If you can't grasp those things as entirely different to each other, then I can only suggest you try getting some more education.

[ampersand]

so do believe that andy copping is playin russian roulette by hosting download every year?

people who go to download are far more likely to be rough and aggresive in a crowd than a glastonbury attendee is should metallica or pearl jam play.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

ampersand, on 31 August 2010 - 01:15 PM, said:

so do believe that andy copping is playin russian roulette by hosting download every year?

people who go to download are far more likely to be rough and aggresive in a crowd than a glastonbury attendee is should metallica or pearl jam play.

Another very very good point. The Glasto crowd have a bit of a repuatation of being well....very tame.

[ampersand]

TheJobbyJabber, on 31 August 2010 - 04:01 PM, said:

Another very very good point. The Glasto crowd have a bit of a repuatation of being well....very tame dull.

[Pogues Mcgogues]

I suppose it depends on the band but I did think that when I was there comparing bands I'd seen before at different festivals/gigs.